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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Narcissitic Personality Disorder (Part 2)

968 replies

Gettingagrip · 04/03/2010 10:41

Starting another thread for us survivors.

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Gettingagrip · 04/03/2010 10:46

Gah! Narcissistic!

autumn- my children have changed beyond recognition since I left. I was very, very worried about my son, who I thought was heading done the narc path. He is idealised by my ex's family.

I think now I can see quite a nice person emerging, as I am now free to parent as I see fit, without being derided for it. My parenting involves love, and boundaries, and respect, and decent behaviour. This is not possible when still in the Ns influence

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BaggyAgy · 04/03/2010 11:11

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NicknameTaken · 04/03/2010 11:23

Lack of empathy - my last post on the last thread talked about exH feeling sorry for himself while his family suffered financially. There was no sense that their welfare might be anything more than a reflection of his own dark mood.

Gettingagrip · 04/03/2010 11:30

Empathy is the ability to put yourself in the other person's position, and to have some sort of insight into what they may be feeling.

So one can feel empathy for someone, for example, that is having a bad time. Ns have no ability whatsoever to see that others have anything separate from them. Everything comes back to them. Its ALL ABOUT THEM. Always.

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autumnlight · 04/03/2010 11:39

BA - I am definitely now more of an observer. This has made me detach alot and I now watch my H and think you are not a real human being. He is picking up on this and the problem is he is coming after me more now (as in invading my space) and trying to have a relationship more with me (I know it is not possible to have what I would consider a real relationship with him, by the way). And this is after years of him not wanting to have a relationship with me ever. I, too, was the 'love of his life' when he met me.

They have no capacity to empathise and put themselves in someone else's position and think how someone else is feeling and the effect they have on other people. Maybe this is why my H's favourite saying is I don't give a f...

autumnlight · 04/03/2010 11:42

Gettingagrip - Yes. It is all about THEM,THEM,THEM. That is why I am making an effort now to use the words 'I' when I talk to him. This is probably confusing him.

autumnlight · 04/03/2010 11:45

For example - when I returned home after our 2nd dc (having nearly died in the process) and my mum had helped out alot at home, his words of comfort to me were 'I am so glad you are back washing up. Your mum was annoying me.

autumnlight · 04/03/2010 11:50

Basically, they are uncaring and cold.

Gettingagrip · 04/03/2010 11:52

autumn...you must remember though...you can't out-psycho a psycho.

However, having said that, I still have to deal with my mother and my sibling. My tactics are still developing since I realised with what I am dealing. Thankfully others now see the madness of them, so I know that it's not me, it really is them!

I have unloaded that huge guilt baggage that was threatening to crush me, and now I don't take any crap, but can also let things go if I want to.

With my ex-H, he has just found another victim, so the pressure is off me in that respect. I have tried to warn her about him and his family, but she told me that she could look after herself, and other choice cliches, so that's up to her now.

Once you are out from their malign influence, you feel about ten tonnes lighter. Like something that was physically crushing you has been lifted from you.

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BaggyAgy · 04/03/2010 12:06

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autumnlight · 04/03/2010 12:31

Yes, I can see that. You keep trying to pick yourself up with them, and they just keep knocking you back down again. That has been the history of my marriage. I realise clearly it would be much much easier to do this on my own. I am trying now to detach emotionally alot from him. Do you think they realise that it is a great power to have someone in love with them who they can exploit? I suppose so. I am typically an example from the book 'women who love too much' I realise.

autumnlight · 04/03/2010 12:48

I will never forgive my H for I feel 'stealing' my years with my dc when they were babies/toddlers. I was so distracted/abused by him that it was, alot of the time, all I could do to look after them on my own but not enjoy having them like I could have (he wouldn't help me if I asked for help). So I feel angry that I have lost those years as, at that time, I was so ground down by it, and just had to try to survive day-to-day. That is why I am now trying to change my reactions so I can direct the energy I used to put into dealing with him towards my dc.

therealme · 04/03/2010 12:56

An example of my ex's lack of empathy;
2 weeks after our seperation and my dc loosing their Dad he started making enquries into fostering.
When I questioned his motives for doing this he stated that it would 'give him the lifestyle' that he wanted.

A few days ago he expressed a wish to take ds 2 to the UK for a family party. No mention of dc 1 and 3 or thought as to how they might feel at being left out.

mathanxiety · 04/03/2010 17:34

Whew, found the thread again

Happy birthday Grace!

I sometimes get the feeling Ns are some sort of rotten onion. They maintain layer upon layer of outer normality, but inside they feel there's something really putrid, so ghastly that they could never recover if it was exposed to the light. The outer layers serve the dual purpose of protection/ concealment of the core, and masquerade.

I always wondered about my ILs and exH's childhood -- the phrase 'raised by wolves' often occurred to me as I observed how they treat children.

Wrapping your mind around the idea of the complete absence of empathy can be really shocking. You see your relationship in an entirely different light when you stop assuming there's empathy at play somewhere deep down inside an N.

Gettingagrip · 04/03/2010 18:47

math...yes...I now know that I have never been loved, until I had my children. They have shown me what love actually is.

You can look back on your whole life and think of times when you wondered what the hell was happening, when you just fell deeper and deeper into the pit, until you were incapable of climbing out, and you know NOW what was going on. But then....well...insane making.

But now I feel the incredible lightness of being..to coin a phrase.

I have just been to look around my brand new house, which i can have however I want it. How brilliant is that? At age over 50 i can finally do what the hell I want to.

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Gettingagrip · 04/03/2010 19:00

the real me....my DD has a particular hobby which is more than a hobby. My exH and his family never gave up complaining about this. This hobby is her whole life for my DD. I have always funded it, my exH has never contributed a penny, nor been to watch her compete.

They made our lives a misery because of this hobby, and was one of the main reasons I left.

My exH's new victim has a DD, and they BOTH participate in this hobby. This is fine by my exH, and when I pointed out to him how hurtful this was for our DD, he laughed in my face.

Now that is lack of empathy.

He thinks I have brainwashed our DD to not want to see him...as I pointed out to him, I had no need to set her against him, he did that all by himself.

They truly are the Devil on Earth.

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fluxy3 · 04/03/2010 19:20

Can I join in? Don't want to hijack...
I can identify with quite a lot on here, I am in the process of TRYING to separate from my H. He won't budge. The scary thing is, and I wonder if others are or have experienced this.... when you look at NPD sites and read what 'they' are like, do you see similarities in your own behaviour?
I CONSTANTLY question my own reactions to situations, panic about how I have become and how much I have changed over the years.... I worry about the effect of my reactions to his (PA) behaviour and his ability to completely ignore my unhappiness, on the children.
I am in tears practically every day, morning and night, the slightest thing will set me off. I feel alone and isolated despite having a good job and friends. He has messed with my head so much over the years, that I don't feel I can trust anyone. I don't trust my own instincts too well and as a result find it difficult to make decisions.
I feel like I am slowly going mad- and yes, falling deeper and deeper into a pit, incapable of climbing out.
But hey, what have I got to complain about? he doesn't beat me up, I live in a huge house, he's not unfaithful (?), does the laundry, makes the packed lunches.... and as he said to me, " if you are so miserable, why don't you move out? we don't really need you, I can always get an au pair to help with the children". Nice.

Eurostar · 04/03/2010 19:25

Lack of empathy - such as cheating a business partner and feeling no guilt because "they were greedy and deserved it"

therealme · 04/03/2010 19:31

G-A-G that's so true, about the falling into a pit. You look back now and can see so clearly how year by year it all got horribly worse. I can see my old self 5, 10, 15 years ago and at each stage there I was making more and more allowances, trying harder and harder to fix things. It didn't get any better, it just kept spiraling further into despair. What a bloody waste of my time! I must have had such strong resilience - such positive beliefs that things would improve, that I could change things.

Of course, I see now that there was always going to be 'something' wrong with me. I didn't at the time. I always took on board every criticism that he had of me. I believed he knew me so well and only wanted to help me become the person I was meant to be. It made me dependent on him for my happiness. It caused me to put a block on my own needs because I was so preoccupied with becoming the person he thought I should be.
He set himself up as my therapist and tore me apart as a result.

Funnily enough, I was remembering the 2 years I spent in psychotherapy a few years back. I went because my h said I needed it and indeed he happily paid for me to go. I went with the pre-conditioned attitude that I was a terrible wife who had let her h down and was incapable of running my own life, keeping on top of things, remembering to do things etc.
The therapist saw through my presenting issues though. He questioned my need to do certain things that I had been accused of failing at by my h. He asked me why I did things if I didn't want to. He left me with a sentence that I have never forgotton - 'You don't have to accept this life - you can stop it at any time you want to'

It doesn't sound very dramatic a statement when I write it down here! But at the time....it was like, after years of being controlled and bullied by my h, suddenly I was being given permission to say 'No! I'm not going to put up with this anymore'

I think maybe that was the point that I stopped believing I could fix things. I started to cut myself off emotionally from my h - no longer relied on him to make me happy.
It took a few years, but eventually I did put a stop to it. I did it too within a very short time frame. I think I had detached myself emotionally from my h after what that therapist said to me, and after that it was just a case of having the balls to seperate physically!

Can't believe I spent so long trying to fix the unfixable though.

G-A-G I'm thrilled you are able to find some peace now - along with the excitement of having your own place, to be able to put your own stamp on it! Housewarming to be announced??!

saddest · 04/03/2010 19:47

It's funny how therapists can do that.

Mine said something about "the minutiae (sp?) of divorce", before anything remotely like that had been broached.

It has stuck in my head. As though divorce was the only outcome to the situation I find myself in.

He has just told me again about all the people who are supporting him against me. I know that that is intended to scare me....and it has.

He left an unwritten valentine "to my wife" in the bin for me to find. That's empathy though isn't it? He knows it will hurt me....that's why he does it.

I am totally confused.

Unlikelyamazonian · 04/03/2010 19:58

fluxy : "I worry about the effect of ... his ability to completely ignore my unhappiness.. on the children. I am in tears practically every day, morning and night, the slightest thing will set me off. I feel alone and isolated despite having a good job and friends. He has messed with my head so much over the years, that I don't feel I can trust anyone. I don't trust my own instincts too well and as a result find it difficult to make decisions.
I feel like I am slowly going mad- and yes, falling deeper and deeper into a pit, incapable of climbing out."

Fo me this is the thing: "his ability to completely ignore my unhappiness.." Yep. Get that totally.

Leave or get him to leave. Keep posting for help.

What made you read this thread though?

mathanxiety · 04/03/2010 20:26

Fluxy -- to read of your situation. You didn't mention any kind of counseling for yourself. Is it possible for you to find someone to talk to about your relationship or your feelings?

For me, counseling opened my eyes to the fact that other people could see right through my ex (again, he insisted I go because it was obvious to him that I was completely screwed up). I went initially to a therapist he had seen. She worked in his psychiatrist's practice and he had had a few sessions with her.

She characterised him as a very angry man when I told her about my life and the history of my relationship, and impressed on me the importance of putting money aside for myself, thinking of myself and my best interests for the future. It was the first time anyone 'on the outside' had given any hint that they saw what I saw in him, and it was a very powerful experience of validation for me.

Validation was one of the first steps towards freeing my mind from him and the parallel universe we inhabited. It also gave me an inkling that I had permission (important to me after spending so long with him) to change things, to think of me as opposed to 'us'.

Gettingagrip · 04/03/2010 21:25

fluxy...the questioning yourself is normal. It's something we all go through when we first make that terrible but liberating discovery that our partners/ parents/ significant other is a N. Gradually though, you will come to see that you are NOT an N, and have the confidence to really know that.

The very fact that you are questioning yourself means that you are not a N!!! Ns have no self awareness or self doubt, by definition.

This thread is for everyone...there is no highjack.

Housewarming to be announced!

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fluxy3 · 04/03/2010 21:27

Hi 'Unlikely', I started reading this thread out of interest... I am always looking at and sometimes, but rarely, posting. It was about 2 years ago that I had my 'lightbulb moment' with regard to H, and since then I have had personal counselling and we have been to Relate. Nothing has really improved and I, at times, feel worse than I ever did about my marriage and him, because 'it' has a name and I can 'see' whats being going on for years...
It's interesting that your therapist 'Math' has said that your ex was an angry man, as this came out in Relate about my H. It was suggested by the Relate counsellor that he was very passive aggressive, he denies it completely and would argue against her about it. He was the victim of me and I was the crazy/mad/screwed up one too..... he is working very hard to look like Mr Wonderful at the moment, knowing full well that I cannot/will not either talk to him or go anywhere with him and pretend to be a happy couple for his benefit.
He has also suddenly started calling me 'his wife' and "my fluxy'.... he denies it, but I think he sees me as his possession/thing.
It just makes me feel so distressed that he ignores my unhappiness and still wants me to be seen with him... He's Mr fantastic and I'm Mrs miserable, guess who has the 'problem' to anyone looking on...
Sorry. Rant over.Thank you...

Gettingagrip · 04/03/2010 21:35

ha ha fluxy...re looking like the loon in the relationship...my mother once did something so terrible at an airport that I totally lost it with her. To any casual observer there was a middle aged woman ranting at a defenseless little old lady, who of course then burst into wracking sobs a la toddler.

I have also turned into a screeching harridan in frustration at my exH, who always looked so calm and reasonable.

Insane making.

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