Narcissitic Personality Disorder (Part 2)

[Gettingagrip]

Starting another thread for us survivors.

Thanx saddest [smile}

I repeat, he has no business coming in your home.

he is not living there.

He does not have to come into your house.

What RL support and advice are you getting?

One is the golden child and one he doesn't care about?

this is no good.

You know it.

Does he have a lot of money?

Move away and let him fight you.

he will give up.

but these are not your average pissed off dad

xx

It's important to realise that he will never willingly give you the closure you need. Hate that word, but I think it gets closest to the dream of finally making them see the truth about themselves, maybe even apologise with sincerity for all the pain and damage they've done. Realistically, is that going to happen? Does it stick in your throat to know that he will skip off and never acknowledge one iota of what he did to you? It has to be accepted though. You have to kill off that hope. Otherwise you are still 'in relationship' with him.

TRM, I know about that dazed feeling. I think the whole process of shaking off something like this, where you can feel as if you're being destroyed, can leave you reeling.

therealme you may be describing my future - if I am strong and fortunate enough...
my ex ( yes ,I will now use that term) maintains that I am equally abusive to him - if not more so.I went to a joint therapy session and had to stomach a well-meaning naive therapist asking me to examine my own role and responsibility in triggering his abuse.During that session,he yelled,swore up to my face and called me obscene names whilst asking the therapist to agree with how warped I obviously was due to my past life.Her response was to acknowledge the deep pain she believed he must be feeling at that moment and ask ME to suggest a way I might help HIM.I left the room in tears and drove 40 miles home.The therapist never checked up how I was.He still sees her weekly on the NHS.Obviously wonderfully validating for him. I am often told how she empathises with what he has taken on and has to put up with by being with me....

PM your N is getting his full validation from that therapist, I have no doubt. He is getting her full attention to whatever one of his twisted versions of 'life living with you' he chooses to throw at her each week. He will have kept the therapy up all this time because she is fuelling or feeding his need to feel the poor victim.

I did some joint counselling with my ex too. It was also a big mistake. At one point when I intejected whilst he was talking he told me to 'shut up! I'm talking now!'. The therapist kind of murmured that she didn't mind either of us jumping in, but tbh I rarely got the chance.
He knew his stuff, my ex. He had widely read up on theraputic models as he works in the caring profession, which isn't a joke btw. He spoke in therapist jargon throughout our sessions and out of the 3 of us in that room I appeared to be little more then a lay observer to some kind of therapist staff meeting.

He still attends counselling - at the same place. I can almost predict what he has 'rehersed' in his therapy sessions by the conversations he tries to have with me. He can pull a theraputic label out of his head to describe every single word or action from me. My whole life is described in print in the text books of Jung, Glasser et al. I had to take on all the great philosophers, psychiatrists and psychologists whenever I tried to defend myself against his criticisms!

I think I spent so long defending myself in order not to sacrifice every little piece of 'myself' that I actually lost myself on the way. Not sure if that makes sense?
I am left reeling now. I managed to end my marriage after years of not knowing how to fix it or end it - and now I'm left standing here surrounded by the broken pieces of my adult life and I don't know how to put them back together again.
Every day with him was controlled and I was his robot. It is like getting out of prison where every hour of your day had been planned and organised for you, and then you're free. You are let out and have to get on with it on your own - but where do you start? Where do you pick up from? The last time I had my own life and mind was 20 years ago!
I am reeling towards a bit of a free fall at the moment and finding it hard to get a grip on things. I'm making it through my day, but I'm not sure how. I don't think I'm doing much for my dc atm - all they're getting is this dazed person who snaps at them a lot and is here in body only

trm I so echo your last paragraph,and laughed wryly at your therapy experiences.
I have spent almost all of last week and this week so far,sitting all day on my sofa staring vaguely at the window or reading/adding to threads on mn.I am not bored,just vacantly reeling and exhausted.I do what I have to do - make meals ,go to the post office,antenatal appointments but expect I will remain here in much the same way until the baby is born in about 4 weeks.
He is doing silent absence currently ,but will no doubt present soon,probably with a polite request that we discuss plans for the baby in a calm manner.....which of course would be nothing of the sort were I to accept,which I wont.
He doesn't live with me but has lots of bits and bobs of stuff here which have been removed and replaced with tedious frequency .He has said he will be coming to collect them this week but because I haven't responded to the txts,he hasn't come...because of course he wants me to plead with him not to take them while he stomps about gathering them.If he comes to get them at my request I wll be the one "unreasonably over reacting and throwing him out" which will be the on going reality forever for him.If he leaves them here,he has "not really gone" and can return and start again.
I am SO BORED with this drama and have no energy.
But I still risk (pathetically albeit wearily)fitting him back into my rescue fantasy if/when he turns up at a low point (any time currently) in rescue hero mode.That is his plan I am sure...

Dazed, lost, reeling. All those words make sense.

I have put an update on my "third abd last time thread"

Yesterday evening was hell with dd. I will try and see the nurse prac this morning. See if there is anything at all I can do to ease the pressure.

Pinemartina..."stomping about gathering"

I watched my h on one of his many packing expeditions here. He couldn't see me, though I could see him. Everytime he went past, he was scanning the windows to see if he had an audience for his little performing monkey routine.

If it wasn't so agonisingly distressing, it would be pathetically funny.

Saddest, I read your update on your other thread. Your poor dd. My dd is 4 and has a 'princess' bedroom that I created for her after her Dad left. I imagined showing her a princess bed - something she is craving badly but I just can't aford - and then whipping it away from her under her nose?! So cruel. I am so upset for her.

My 6yo ds is very angry atm. He says he hates his life and up until now I have been too consumed with my own life to deal properly with his. I am going to seek help for him when I approach my GP next week.

saddest - my H did the 'stomping around packing' routine many many times, always wanting an audience. And he usually had one - with the icing on the cake - me, begging him not to leave me.

Now - he will not leave ("it is his house" - acutually joint ownership - "and he pays for it so why should he leave").

They like to enjoy the distress they cause.

One of the other examples I have is a couple of years ago when my H left me - but he had to wait two weeks for the rented flat to be available. He came home from work, took the afternoon off (which he never does as work is his religion and nothing ever comes first), for absolutely no reason other than to enjoy making the announcement to me at lunchtime, and then staying around at home to enjoy the reaction.

Also, even when we first got married, if we had a disagreement, he would run to the computer and start booking a flight to his country (just in western europe).

I guess that was a bit of an indicator of how he would work on a marriage with me!!!!!!!! Run away.

I went to Berlin when the wall came down.
Through all the partying, there were the Russian soldiers. Just standing there. Utterly bewildered, not knowing who they were, why they were there or who was now telling them what to do, who to be, or knowing what they were.

That's why we go back to these men so often, The same reason as so many Russians want to return to communism.

Freedom is terrifying, when you have forgotten what it means.

I have been watching vidoes of when dd was two weeks old. H is like a child. His facial expressions. The way he descibes himself as a useless fat lump. The way he interact with ds....like a child.

Whatever happened to him as a child probably happened at six years old. That's where he is stuck.

That's based on nothing but guts.

Those therapy sessions sound nightmarish. The thoughts of some naive clueless therapist supporting your Xs is quite nauseating.

trm yes exactly - I have been a robot with my days mapped out and controlled,under the guise of help and support during this pregnancy and in practical terms with childcare organisation.It is much harder in practical ways to do it all alone now.Another reason we were all so pleased to have him back each time.But like a prisoner of war,that give/take /injure/love cycle creates an even worse dependancy.I think that is where the freefall feeling comes from.I have it too and am currently quite paralysed.I crave the love stage of the cycle now but absolutely want to break free.It's scary how powerful this kind of brainwashing is.
Bastard
Bastard
Bastard

Stockholm Syndrome, PineMartina.

Freshen your knowledge on it, treat your self & rope in your therapist and a good friend to support you. You can do it!

Interested in what many of you have said about being able to see at what age your partners "got stuck"! I've just been through a mental list of the lunatics in my life (past and present) - and can instantly put an "age" to every one. Shocking and illuminating.

I changed radically - according to the people around me then - at 18 months, 10yrs and 16. One for Stately Homes, after I've cogitated. Thank you

Autumn, I've just read you on another thread, where you seem now to be using money & material comforts as your "reason" to stay & suffer. Are you sure??? Is that all you're worth?

Yes Grace, I was just going to say Stockholm Syndrome myself.
Although I also think it is equal to a parent/child relationship. This was a huge bone of contention for my ex who constantly accused me of acting like a child that needed parenting by him.
And yet, it was hardly surprising that this parent/child scenario developed given that he spoke down to me, corrected me and punished me as though I was a disobedient child who hadn't a clue how to conduct myself in the adult world.

Your futures won't be decades and decades of being a paralysed puppet with no puppet master.. I had that shell-shocked robotic feeling too. UA says it is post traumatic stress disorder and I believe her.

I felt relieved after I'd left, and happiER definitely, but my coping skills weren't great back then. If I had even two things planned for the next couple of days, I felt as though I had hundreds of balls in the air!

Some people who hardly knew me were surprised that I wasn't out job-hunting. I would have had a nervous breakdown if a boss had been disappointed in me though.

It took me 18 months to be certain that that PTSD was behind me. I used to feel guilty that I wasn't out there job-hunting the second I got back here, but now I don't feel guilty. I needed that time to re-charge.

Don't expect too many changes overnight, and don't berate yourselves for being just an adequate mother. If some days you're not Mary Poppins then it's not the end of the World, and if you're not making loads of pro-active decisions every single day, so what, you can now, and you will when you're ready and when you have the energy.

It's been nearly 3 years now and I feel more and more like everything that happened to me is 'The Past'. It's legacy is not a part of my personality anymore, in fact, it's left me stronger, but not hard. But my vulnerabilities have healed up. There was a time though, I felt like had no personality. I wasn't quiet. I talked and words came out, but I wondered was everything I said totally incoherent and meaningless. Like a robot with no soul I guess.

Anyway, I should probably stop posting on this thread quite soon, because lately I feel like a fraud. I have my parents to buffer my x's nonsense so I don't have to deal with what you girls have to deal with.

It gets a lot better. I hope that that turns out to be true for everybody and not some trite platitude, even from another npd survivor!

Reading this thread (and the first one) I cannot believe how evil these people are. Therealme, I'm so proud of you, you really don't know. I have been rooting for you since the first thread you had made. To see you come this far at such a short stage, is incredible.
Some of the things explained in these threads have left my mouth literally open. I too was sucked in by a N. I was 16yrs when I met my monster, years of torment and feeling as i were going crazy (as he often told me)i finally heard about the N condition when I was 27yrs, just like therealme by seeking help online, only to be confronted by exactly what i were going through...step by step. It saved my life! I'm now 32, it's been a long road but i'm happy to say...the twat has gone (they never really go when you have kids) I have one son 10yrs, but he is out my head. He still tries to sniff some supply from me, but my guard is never down when he is around.
No boasting but i sometimes grieve for the girl i used to be. Came from a beautiful loving family, had opportunities to model from an early age...he put a stop to all that. I was a slut for even considering modelling, my family were no good cos they hated him...isolation followed. He cheated, lied...did I say LIED? he lied about everything! he created and changed my thoughts, my perceptions were all wrong...that didn't happen...I just imagined it, I was the abusive one, no one knows the real me, i were a bitch, bad mother, yada yada. Writing about him makes me boil in rage, lol. I'm not even explaining myself well enough, don't know where to start. I don't even have a past with him...it's all biased on lies, my mind fuzzy with crap.
My son is endless supply to him...for now. He is textbook. Had the audicity to send me a mothers day card (he didnt even get son to sign it, just his name) he wrote that although i'm a bad person, i derserved a mothers day card (enter any emotican of choice). No reply from me. The old me would have killed him (i have a temper)
I'm sometimes so smug bcos I never thought I would reach this stage...little shy meek me...living my life my way. I would rather a life time of being alone than ever being in some mind games with a loony.
Writing this makes me feel like I have validated him again, but I just had to say something in this thread.
You know its over when you don't hate them, feel rage, love, what they say don't affect you...you feel NOTHING (maybe irrition)a feeling that seems so foreign, but boy oh boy does it come. It comes when you least expect it. Deal with the logistics of it all, access, housing, all the legal stuff...everything else comes in place. You will one day wake up truely FREE.

blush
Really bad spelling/grammar - apologies

Wow LL that's great stuff and much appreciated

This is classic behaviour for an N when you try to leave. They deny you your absolute prerogative to end a relationship (something which is completely taken for granted in the normal World).

In the N's mind, there can be some sort of Kangaroo court where you have to 'prove' your allegations, and witnesses (such as your son) can be called in to discredit your 'case'.

This is just CLASSIC.

As UA says, don't engage, pick a stock phrase and repeat it over and over and over again. Something that he can't argue with such as "i no longer want to be in this relationship". No matter what he says, reply like a dripping tap "I no longer want to be in this relationship".

Avoid getting into the 'court case' where you feel you have to justify why you feel abused so that you have the 'right' to want to end the relationship. You don't have to prove nothing to nobody!!!

Maggie, I keep reading this over and over again. My god, this was my life! no reason was good enough to leave. He used to 'collect' evidence and present them to me. The evidence would sometimes be my son by asking him 'do you think mummy is acting crazy? if no answer from son, 'you're a bad mother, see how scared he is of you, you're mad, that didn't happen, I never said you're a bad mother...you called me a bad father! my only crime is loving you, stop attacking my love for you baby'. Nutter of the highest order.

Maggie00 (and UA) - don't you DARE stop posting. You are the ones who help me see how life will get better in the future. Recognising that I have complex PTSD (I'm also a card-carrying memeber of the Stately Homes) has really helped. It explains the shell-shocked feeling and that is exactly how those WWI soldiers felt. I know I'm not depressed, bipolar, delusional - it is something else but it does pass.

Reading the last couple of days' posts, I realise that in some ways my situation is easier. My ex has never even asked me why I left, also I left rather than trying to kick him out and I made sure our legal agreement for contact made it very specific that he wasn't allowed in my house. Never, never engage (unless you have 24 hours to respond); it just knocks you off course. I don't even look at me ex when he collects DD, I haven't made eye contact for months now.

Thanks Pina. What still blows my mind though, is how quite common this all is! I never even knew what a N was, if I had, it would have really helped me by leaving much earlier. Shallow, but my 20's are a haze of confusion and fear. I feel robbed.
I used to think he would come back to apologies the very least but these people move smoothly and care free to their next victim. I used to pine for an apology, or some sort of acknowledgment that he rocked my world...none. Had to let that go to fully move on. Very hard but a must for closure

The Kangaroo court thing.

Yes!

But my mum did this to me so many times through my childhood. The last time, they were all sitting there with NOTES! Outlining what was wrong with me. They took in in turns to read out their "evidence" I wouldn't mind but my little sister had begged me to stand up against my mum for her!!!!!!!!
And all the time the kids were outside as it got darker and colder. I walked out telling tham that they were dysfunctional and got the kids tea...not just my kids,,,,their's too.
I remember h being appalled...and now he's one of them.

I remember when I was mid teens, they'd brought someone in from the local samaritans to tell me what was wrong with me and how all the family problems were my fault. Turns out said samaritan did something to my big sister that she can't now talk about. Ah but that'll be my memory failing again. Because I don't remember things like normal people, do I?

Err yes...actually I do. But some things are best ignored eh?

My sister in law....his side, just got obliterated from facebook, just after being friends with me.

My heart breaks for you and with you. First of all, I never ever said or hinted or implied ever that you were an abuser. I don't know how this impression was ever communicated to you. It simply isn't true and I can only suggest that this is more of 's antics.
Secondly, if I gave the impression that my message at Christmas was intended to exclude you then this is complete nonsense. I really like you . I think you have had a hell of a time and it is certainly not my intention to cause you any more hurt. What on earth would my motive be? ** works on the principal that everybody?s mind works in the same way as hers. Obviously not true. Thank Heavens. I can only give you my word about that.
I wonder who is doing the advising to her that she should have no contact with her family. That really does have to be her decision but I do wish her GP and whoever else is involved would see that has very serious problems which need to be taken seriously before she does too much more damage to those around her. I am at my wits end and it breaks my heart. hurls this word abuse around with complete abandon it would appear. When is someone going to take the situation seriously and intervene? How many more lives is she going to be allowed to wreck?
I was absolutely appalled when told me about what she was saying to the solicitor. There will be no forgiveness or understanding for if she attempts to damage her sisters? lives. They have both worked so hard for what they have achieved - unlike her. * in particular could be so very badly damaged and her whole career wrecked.

That is a real email from my "mum" to my husband.I have got rid of the names.

Yes I have hasd a drink...not the two litres every night that I am accused of...but I am sick of this.

Thanks LL, I'll still keep posting probably! but I realised that I don't need to post anymore. That's so amazing really, I was a complete basket case two years ago.

I've learnt so much on this thread, and so many of you have validated what I went through and articulated so perfectly and succinctly things I struggled to verbalise (even to myself). I couldn't possibly have got more out of two years of therapy than I've got out of this thread. I wish it had existed sooner though! My progress had probably stagnated a bit before I discovered NPD. I was over the worst, but understanding it fast forwarded the healing process definitely.

I would love a job now (and that terrified me before). And although I'm not out manhunting, ha!, I feel I could meet somebody and not bring MORE baggage than they had to the table, ykwim? because I know I have dealt with mine, and learned from it.

I hope I don't sound too smug though, as the ONLY reason I've been able to come this far is because I don't have to deal with him.

Saddest, that is awful. A real mother shows loyalty to her children. :-( Jeez.

AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
Sorry I needed somewhere to shout and here seemed like a good place to do it.

OH text me today and asked if he could come and see the kids. I said yes as I havent seen him since he left on sunday and as usual in his abscence my imagination has turned him into Mr Perfect and I have been wondering if I have thrown away my family. Along with the constant texts telling me how much he loves me etc.

Sooo, I tell him to come round. Girls are happy to see him so I disapear upstairs for an hour to have a bath and to leave them to it.

OMG the things I heard drift upstairs
Firstly he was reading wih dd2 (5) about the emergency services. He told her that policemen dont have any friends, and who would want a policeman in their house !! This is a doubly anoying statement as my sister is a policewoman and I dont want them to have that view !!!
Then he saw a drawing dd2 had done for me. She had asked me to list my friends on it. He complained that he wasnt on it . This upset her and she said " i have put you on it dad " and he said " huh yeah YOU have ".
Then dd1 told him that we had all won a prize in the school raffle and it only needed to him to win a pize and we would be " the prize winning family" He told her that I dont count as I dont have the same surname !!!
I could hear all this !!!!!He also told them that he was tired and has to take tablets to sleep !!!!!!!! He also told them that the reason he cant run round or play with them like " other " daddies is becuase he is very poorly and has bad legs !!!!!! He is SO bloody convinced he has something wrong with him, despite numerous blood tests coming back normal !! He is desperately trying to ge the GP to say there is something wrong so he can claim incapacity benefit and get a council place !

After they went to bed I asked him not to say those things as the dc worry about him being ill. He told me they deserve the truth !!!!!!I also said that I would rather he didnt run down the police as I dont want my dc to not trust the mergency services !! He went on a long rant about the police and how he hated them and who would ever be friends with one and how with all the " things he gets up to ( drugs ) he doesnt agree with them and he could be a wanted man " I had to laugh. I told him he thinks life is like Goodfellas and it isnt ! He said you have no idea how near to the truth that is for me ! OMG HE IS SUCH A DICK SOMETIMES !!
I was just looking at him thinking oh good lord !!

The final straw came when he said he has been doing 2 and a half hours of weights every night so he can get fit and get into security work !!! when I asked why he said it was so he could get paid to " beat people up" .

Honestly I think I must be slightly unhinged. How has he ended up like this, cos he sure as hell didnt start outlike this. He is declaring undying love for me on a daily basis yetis getting weirder and weirder. I honestly worry I will give in n spite of myself and end up living with a psycho !

He left as it started to rain. He said he preferred the rain as he was less likely to get pulled up as policemen dont like the rain.
OMG..............