Narcissitic Personality Disorder (Part 2)

[Gettingagrip]

Starting another thread for us survivors.

Oh my goodness FTB, what can I say? He does sound unhinged. I hope you can see that too?
My ex also did that snide remarks to the dc thing and then cover it up by saying "But it's the truth!". No seeing it from the dc's pov - no empathy.

Legend thanks so much for your posts here. The more people who write on this thread with similar tales of their N-infected marriages, the more I am reassured that I did the right thing in ending my marriage. The more I also start to claw back some self belief that I am a fully functioning adult who can survive and overcome all the damage that my ex did to me.
I read the posts by Maggie, UA, Grace and Gettingagrip - all of whom have lived through similar lives to my own - and it helps me see that I, like them, am quite normal. I'm not an abuser, or dysfunctional. Neither am I insane, chaotic, cold or unemotional. I'm not any of those labels that my ex pinned to me over the years. All those droning lectures that I had to listen to from my ex had taken their toll on me. I often read back over my very first post that I wrote here on my home forum. It ooses desperation and pathetic acceptence of how my life had ended up. I had no self value and no fight left in me. Thank god something spurred me into spilling the truth about my life that night, because it really was the catalist that led me to where I am now.
And it's only because of the logically calm and generously empathic postings from the people on this thread that I have been able to get the full picture of what the hell happened to me for the past 2 bloody decades! Honestly, you can't get this kind of support from a library book or 15 minutes bending your GP's ear. It's worth its weight in gold.

Maggie, I hope like you, that one day I will feel I no longer need to post on here. That I will have moved on and like Legend will feel 'nothing' at all about my ex. I guess the rawness of it all will eventually wear off and enough time will have passed so that I will no longer need to keep making sense of things in order to put my life back into perspective. At least I'm moving in the right direction now though!

ItsGraceAgain - I am not bothered about material comforts. Money is an issue with me and has been used by my H as a major power tool and a stick to beat me with at various times, and yes, it is 11 years since I was financially independent. But on a more practical level, (I do not wish to give the details, maybe I should namechange) I am stuck at the moment as a result of things happening beyond my control. Sorry to be so cryptic but H very nosey.

Forthebestagain - I listen in on conversations also as I have heard twisted, ridiculous, manipulative things said, and I want to know what is going on.

Autumn, that may have come across as insulting. I'm sorry.

Is there no chance of throwing yourself on the mercies of the State? What do Women's Aid say? I used to be really well-off. Not a millionaire or anything, but I would never have imagined I could live on as little as I do now. And be this much happier!

Wishing you the best, as always.

This thread is saving my sanity.Thank you so much to everyone.If not for reading and re reading here,I would by now be attending to the recurrent fantasy/image of drowning,hanging,disappearing so that everyone could live in their own reality without my existence being the challenge to it that it has been since birth (allegedly).
My mother has conversations like that email sdst with all my exes,with my brothers,s i l and has moved into areas - to offer me support - then spread the word among my friends.
Currently,my ex is getting his life back on track in a calm normal way,like you do when you've just abandoned yr preg partner with birth imminent and all 4 children you've parented and messed with for 5 yrs upset confused and reeling.He is communicating with me as if we closed on an amicable deal years ago with water now clear under the bridge and no reason on earth as to why I wd be upset,angry,confused.Last week he was trying to control every breath I took - for the baby's sake - now he isn't remotely concerned at asking me to put a garage load of furniture belonging to him out onto the street ready for him to collect ( I didn't) then txt that he cant get it today now and could I put it back until tomorrow as he is busy.....my anger and disbelief is of course evidence of the disorder that means he cant be expected to put up with ME any more.
My parents are shocked saddened but not suprised that I can't accept his love and would wish to assert my independance again with a 5th baby at this stage.I push people away and want to be in control and wont accept help or support.those poor children and he's done o much for them nd now she's disrupting their lives agaian
If I couldn't validate and reality check on here I would be jumping.
I will just have to pick up and do it all again.
Grace,I am hanging on to a high paid job by the threads of my teeth but wd like to spend a few years sorting out my head and being mummy.How can I make the first step of wd you advise hanging on for the money and self esteem that goes with the status?
xxxx all

FORTHEBASTAGAIN that kind of stuff sounds like regular life stuff from my life with ex p.Same police paranoia and broken body that is only capable of gladiator fighting at will. Is bad swearing allowed on here?

pinemartina - it always made me angry how my H talks about what I would consider pretty major things in life - eg when he left me - he talked about it as if he had done something like shopping at the local supermarket. No interest/care/concern/understanding/empathy about what he had done. And it has always been the same - they upset you terribly and then, in then you are expected to carry on as normal (no matter what they have done) and - one of my H's favourite sayings in life is 'GET OVER IT'. This could be 'get over' absolutely anything - even major things.

I have now started to react in the same way when he kicks up a fuss about something (often money-related, as people do not matter to him), and I have to take a step back and deal with his behaviour in a different way. I have a wealth of history at my disposal as to his 'indifference' towards me - so that helps.

They just seem to think it is acceptable to do whatever they like to people - and 'how dare you make a fuss'!!!!

Autumnlight, although I had no rights to anything when I lived with my x (he was very cunning from day one), i lived in a nice house and I was, I guess, loathe to walk away from it with nothing. Eventually I did just that though. Walked away from 8 years with a wealthy man, with nothing. Not even the things I'd bought with 'my' money over the years, or the things people had given me. i have very little money now, but if I want to spend it on potatoes, gin and comics I can! wouldn't do that every day of course! but there is much more choice with the little money I have now.

I used to say to my x, we get on well when I put up and shut up.. that's what you want from a woman, somebody who will put up and shut up. And it's true. That is his ideal partner. Somebody who will serve him at their own expense, financial, emotional, practical... and he would never even see the disparity.

My x (and his mother) often used to say "it's all about money with you people" (you people being me and my parents, My Dad tried to shame him into contributing to the children's upbringing, but my x is not easily shamed. But somehow in my X's head, although he is earning a very good salary and not sharing a cent of it with his children, I and my family are the money-grabbing sheisters.

it used to chew me up, but I have come to see the benefits. He can't hold anything over me. I need jump through NONE of his hoops. I don't feel the need to offer him a say in anything ever, and the piece de resistance in my mind,,, just how harshly can my children judge me when they are adults?? I may not buy them nintendo DS, Lelli Kelly shoes, or take them to Disneyland paris, but they will not go without anything that they really need and money will be found somehow for things that are important.

I am actually happy about getting no money from him now. It seems entirely fitting. I can't imagine him suddenly handing over even a tesco voucher now!!

Ha HA I have bought nintendo ds and lelli Kelli shoes and not a blind difference does it make!!!They are ALL currently annoyed that my advanced pg and low spirits are depriving them of the one thing they all claim to love most - walking the dogs with me in the woods before and after school without psycho man in tow HAHA

Maggieoo - that is my H exactly. He wants a woman who will 'put up and shut up'. And yes, it must be lovely to have financial independence from your ex and not have to be eternally 'grateful'.

One of things that has been rationed/non existent in my relationship has been 'help'. I have never had 'help' if I have needed it. I am only given 'help' on things that he wishes. But - and this is a very big but - if you (me) really needed help with anything, eg. when dc were babies/toddlers - sick, if asked - 'can you just help me/give me a hand' - the answer would be a sadistic 'no' said with a smug look. I have also watched him look on as other people struggle in my family. My H has always been so 'unapproachable' regarding this whole thing, or other things in life, that, for example, just the other day I asked him for a small favour. Rather than just agree, he made a huge fuss about how difficult it would be for him to do the thing and, of course, he didn't help me in the end.

I do not usually ask him, by the way, for help with anything, and learnt not to. I suppose it has given him an easy life with no-one demanding anything of him.

Sorry for rambling!!!

Sorry pinemartina - my last message should have been addressed in reply to yours.

Another thought - they think the world revolves around them and, what is worse, they convince you that it does.

PineMartina, I think your last sentence, re: walking the dogs, answers your question! While no-one would wish to choose between emotional health and material goodies, money is a tool of such great importance to so many Ns that the choice often is that stark. As Maggie has written, the price for ownership of your thoughts and feelings can be high - but still worth it.

I find it hard to be this poor. One quality of my life now - which I never knew before, no matter how many lovely things I owned - is contentment.

Maggie another memory of an overheard phone call from my ex to his Dear Mother, "She doesn't want me, all she wants is my money" so true I didn't want him, but how did he think any of the rest of us were going to survive without somebody paying? Funny thing was, at the time, we had absolutely no money. His ego trip/self-employment phase had seen to that. All of his pathetic self-pity was lapped up by doting Mother of course.

Put up or shutup was the family motto as far as he was concerned. He used to snarl through gritted teeth at me "Don't tell me what to do" (as if) but my daily life was not my own to conduct as I saw fit, even down to the smallest details like what I took out of the cupboards and set out on the counter as I cooked dinner, and I couldn't even have a facial expression he took exception to...

FTBA, I would do my utmost if I were you, to involve your policewoman sister in your DCs' lives. What your H tried to do, messing with their minds like that, was criminal. I think your H sounds like a really scary psycho, tbh, and I hope you'll consider getting some sort of protection order and permanent physical separation from him, for your DCs' sake. His level of twistedness is extreme. Can your sister help you out with him, and getting some sort of legal protection? Does she know about the drugs? Could it backfire on her career to have a BIL who is involved in drugs like this, with her knowledge?

Saddest -- your mother's e-mail is horrifying. What a betrayal. Very sad for you.

autumn -my ex "helps" by doing EVRYTHING and refusing to let anyone do a single thing - cooking shopping mean planning hoovering driving organising EVERYTHING -"to give you some peace from all these kids"
But- he is in control to the extent that hidden dangers lurk,not found until discovered by accident and they shift depending on...? eg cooking - whole kitchen taken over,chaos,all utensils in use,NO ONE to walk through kitchen or risk being BELLOWED at then meal eaten in state of supressed tension until small matter - childs leg swinging under table- results in him putting down fork slowly and menacingly before stalking from the room into sitting room,leaving silent atmosphere of disappointment and confusion as everyone else spends hours clearing up total nuclear zone in kitchen to exacting standard expected and avoids going into sitting room all evening other than to silently place "perfect" cups of tea by his side - which may be gratefully accepted with a jolly hug and invite to all snuggle in there OR taken silently to sink and poured away as he menacingly boil kettle to make a proper one. A scene will soon arise - prompted by the realisation that he has forgotten to tax his car or go to dentist - whatever - in which he will scream about how "he does everything for everyone else but neglects himself and his own needs and none of us EVER DO ANYTHING FOR HIM!!" -repeat pattern and drama for all actions at random - Random is the key here.....

mathanxiety - facial expressions - yes I apparently produce them to "press his buttons" even over the phone or with my back to him .
And it is all4 dc's facial expressions that most commonly provoke his wrath - he "knows" what is inferred by the fleeting changes that may be perceived by him only when seen on a childs face.No point a) denying the face was made or b) claiming that it meant something else,HE KNOWS and my failure to leap from a hight onto a child in his support is evidence of my undermining him and supporting disrespect from them .....YAWN

Nearly six weeks, and today I spoke on facebook to friends!!!!!! fOR 40 MINUTES! And I didn't have to hide the fact, and I didn't feel guilty and I laughed out loud!

And they were MEN! And they still think I'm ace, even though I disapeared for seven years! And they don't want to shag me, because they have beautiful wives who they love and respect...and who like me too!

The kids are still in their school uniforms at bath time.

And mealtimes are now chilled, with normal food, and no bloody issues....

leg swinging...check.

Not sitting square on to the table...check.

Not having his performingmonkeyroutine...check.

Bad atmosphere...check.

And I am going to start painting the house in something other than magnolia or hessian. I can't even see the sodding difference...and choosing whether magnolia or hessian should go on which wall was AGONY!

Performingmonkey is so right Saddest .

Pinemartina, you have got to put an end to this. Your children will be forever grateful.

Saddest I know it's not funny in reality - but you did make me laugh out loud just now!

PM my ex was the complete opposite to yours. He would arrive home and go straight to his bedroom. He would phone downstairs to me in the kitchen to order tea and food at intervals.
Each morning I would be expected to bring him breakfast in bed, run his bath, bring him his second breakfast, go into bathroom to 'shave' the hair on his ears and back (puke at the thought now), iron his clothes, make more tea and then drop him to work. All while I got myself and 3 dc up and dressed for the day too.
Failure to do any of the above, on time, would result in fury/punishment/lectures as to how I couldn't be relied upon to do what I said I would.

On the odd occasion he would get a notion to leave the bedroom and 'do something' with the family I would be given a list of everything he needed packing in the car/what the dc had to be wearing and to have it done and the dc in the car by a given time. Cue me running around like a lunatic for 30 mins screaming at the dc because if we weren't ready it would be 'all deals are off' and outing abndoned.
He even refused to drive the dc to school on the mornings he volunteered if he wasn't pulling out of the drive by the time he had dictated. And I'd be standing there in my pajamas with 2 minutes to hurridly dress to take over....

Jeez, the crap I put up with when I think about it now. And nobody else knew about it.

OMG HOW SANITY PRESERVING IS THIS TO READ !!!!!!!!!!!
NOBODY KNEW - this has maintained the appalling status quo for the duration.
After two "failed marriages" to passive aggressive,witheld bastards who even aquaintances would encourage me to leave by the end,I offer the following "reason" for being here now....
Having broken free and got rid of no.2 I felt so liberated and light.I thought the world was at our feet.I took the 4 dc's to Barcelona for a week - hotel,seafront,balcony, pool.Although I did treck them around the Gaudi stuff and Picasso museum and tbf they expressed interest and enjoyment,iy was sodding hard slog BUT when the dc's were at their happiest - in the pool,running around the entertainments in the bar,I barely contained my tears and paranoia at being what I believed to be "pathetic single saddo with 2 failed marriages ( elder girls brown,younger 2 white)" among a throng of happy happy loving boden wearing glossy successes.It was very hard to make conversation - not the place people seemed to want to make new friends with single women...hmmm....no one ever offerred to help carry bags whilst I carried sleepy 3 and 4 yr old.I was SO down on myself behind the shades but I kept up a smile -it nearly finished me - never a moment to think,read drink etc and a social outcast to boot.
Fast forward 4 years to Turkey last summer.Me,4 dc's and F Features frolicking delightedly in the pool - just like everyone else.How proud I was to present my glossy fully functioning family to the world.Yes,even though back in the appartment,I was berated for not checking his toenails without prompting,subject to Performingmonkey (ace,spot on!!) before and after every meal out and and on-going heavy duty issue about 2nd dc cutting eyes at him "behind my back and even her sister knows it but is too worried about your [MY] temper to admit it.." bollocks....well hey,I WAS NORMAL
OMG
This thread now reassures me -with horror - that many seemingly glossy happy women may well be having my last years experience...
Quick - don't let me rationalise that into " may as well stick with what you know then,if it's so common -and anyhow where are the realhappy one's? May as well...."
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH

The effort required in maintaining the facade of a decent relationship is immense, and exhausting. Eventually became impossible for me anyway. It had got to the point where no matter how much I covered for him and up sold him so to speak, people knew he was 'difficult' and pitied me anyway.

I felt so disconnected from the people I'd been trying to fool anyway, because my life was so different from theirs.

I

Blimey TRM. I'm speechless.

I can tell. Some women just look beaten. For the rest: There's a certain kind of tentative alertness in the way some women hold themselves; a nervous grace if you like. I used to have it. Men find it attractive - some types of men, anyway, hah.

Couple of years ago, I met a cousin at a funeral - hadn't seen her for decades. This woman is traffic-stopping beautiful. She had it, that posture. In conversation, she asked me "Did you and XH have a honeymoon period?" I knew instantly what she meant: "Did your husband stop pretending to love you the minute he got the ring on you?" (Answer: Yes, he became his true self AT THE REGISTER SIGNING!) Somebody else took her question literally, so the opportunity was lost. When I left, I whispered "Don't take crap." She hugged me for it. She left the bastard the following year, after he put her in hospital - but is still entangled, 8 years on.

TRM, the more you say, the more I suspect your charmer is a full-on sociopath, like my Dad. One defining characteristic: Sadistic. Such a person commonly finds it funny to cause pain. Brags about ability to hurt or maim; considers self beyond (not above, just beyond) the law.

Over 55% of convicted criminals test positive for sociopathy. Which, no doubt, is why my dad was a policeman.

I can give you more Saddest but we'll wait till later when I can crack open the bottle of vino I have in the fridge - cos it'll be a looong night