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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Narcissitic Personality Disorder (Part 2)

968 replies

Gettingagrip · 04/03/2010 10:41

Starting another thread for us survivors.

OP posts:
Maggie00 · 21/03/2010 16:53

Junglist1, that's exactly what my x thought. Because I defended myself, and reasoned with him and tried (always in vain) to fight my case that i was hysterical and loved the drama and that I provoked him. SO glad it's all behind me now.

saddest · 21/03/2010 17:14

I am hysterical and addicted to conflict too!

I have finished Patricia Evans new book this afternoon.

She says, quite rightly, that anyone who believes that they know what someone else is thinking, feeling, doing and what their motivation are, is irrational. Of course they are! No onw knows what someone else is feeling or thinking...How can they?

She theorises that this believe is a projection of their split off personality. a consequence of childhood abuse by their father. The more of them that is split off, the iller they are.Often using drugs or alcohol to self medicate their own pain.

When their partner is someone other than their own projection, (an autonomous woman) they feel attacked, which is why they respond with anger and rage. And why they truly belive that it is something that WE have DONE to them. IE not being their projected split off self. That's why they think they know what we fell, think, etc etc.

Fascinating. ILL.

Forthebestagain · 21/03/2010 17:16

he has has just taken a second load of stuff. Baby cots and pushchairs are what he wants as his parens bought them for us. They are quite generous but I have always thought its because they are making amends for him iykwim ?

This is so so hard. He just cried and cried when he came back. Said he just wants me to say " please dont go I love YOU, But You WONT will you !!" I was so tempted as he looks so hurt.
Then he ruins by acting all suspicious and asking why the kids arent here and why I had boked an afternon off anyway. ER !! No I did it becuase off this situation but he thinkas I didnt know this was happening I have to had something planned !
Then a bloke pulled up in a car outside and used the drive to turn round. Er expceting someone were YOU !!!!! says OH in a sarcastic way. NO !!! I wasnt !!
One minute hes crying the next he thinks im up to smething.
Oh Im so scared. I have been with hi since I was 16 and im 35 now !!! What am I goona do.
He loves me i think. What if im ruining my dc family for nothing. I am so so scared. I have said some horrible things and I have pushed him away so maybe I did feed his paranoia ??

Sorry about typos. im scared he will be back for the next lot any minute

mathanxiety · 21/03/2010 17:18

Provocation -- it's all coming back to me. He accused me of this, endlessly; every time he lost it and went berserk it was because I had deliberately provoked him. One day I asked him what he thought I could possibly be getting out of being screamed at and called every ugly name in the English language, did he think his mother would appreciate any of this behaviour if someone tried it on her? Sudden quiet. His mother was and is the only woman in his life. It was the only way I could ever get him to see his behaviour through another lens.

I agree about getting the locks changed. Send a message of your own, FTBA. You'll feel your home is your castle when he can't come and go freely.

nitemare · 21/03/2010 18:04

Forthbest haven't posted on this thread before, but read it alot. I'm another NPD survivor and felt compelled to post as your story rang bells with me. Just like when I split up with my ex NPD- he took EVERTHING. But acted like he was heartbroken! Swore he loved me, etc. etc. As he was rolling up my carpets and loading them into his van! What a nutter. He DOESN'T love you. He is a first class manipulator. If you had a friend there with you she would be telling you that, but it's so hard to go up against them on your own as they are so expert at twisting our minds. Thank God for this thread.
For me it took a friend (who knew about personality disorders) to tell me in no uncertain terms that i should have NO contact wth him, no negotiating, no hearing him out, no more listening to the mind fuck stuff. Step away from the nutter. It was the only way I managed to finally get away. Stop respondng to his manipulations.
I've heard from a few people who've survived NPD'ers that they like to take all your stuff. When he does his next load can you lock the door? Get a friend round.
He is NOT heartbroken; he is a manipulative liar. Someone who loved you would not strip your house of stuff.

nitemare · 21/03/2010 18:06

BTW you will be a VERY lucky woman if he DOES bugger off and you never see him again. Lots of women on this thread can only dream of this outcome. It is the only good outcome. Sorry to say it as you are feeling scared bt actaully it is the only way to get your life back. It WILL be a good life if he buggers off. You will be amazed by how much better thins will get. Let's just pray he does truely bugger off.

Unlikelyamazonian · 21/03/2010 18:17

FTBA how are you doing? What is happening? Do not let him back into the house. xx

Katisha · 21/03/2010 18:33

FTBA he may THINK he loves you, according to his own definition, but as you know deep down, this is not the behaviour of a normal loving person. He needs to CONTROL you and now it's not working. You need to get used to this as well.

Can you phone and get your Mum back now to be with you if he turns up again - this has got to stop.

Forthebestagain · 21/03/2010 18:34

he came back. Got some more stuff. Got more upset. I did a stupid thing of asking him why as I just want some answers. We argued again, all pointless.
I went upstairs and got into bed as I just feel so shit.
He came and sat on the bed eventually and hugged me, kept saying "please be happy FTB, lease be happy," He then cried a lot.I sais to him that he should sort his life out that he needs to fnd work and have something in his life. He said I was his life. He then said that he is going to the DSS tommorrow to say his is homeless ad to appply for a 2 bed place as he has girls. Althogh he is also tempted to move to the coast near some friends. I cant tell yu how much that grates on me as I was offered a job in that very town and he told me to turn it down not 4 years agao !!! Now he is talkig of living there !!!

Part of me feels so cheated, he knows how much I would love that !!

He cried loads, I cried, god this is dragging. Its like the day from hell. He kept hugging me and kissing me and do fel bad. It was so nice to hold someone again, we havent been close for about 4 months.

Im so, so confused. He has one loads left. Then its all gone........

TheSteelFairy2 · 21/03/2010 18:38

He KNOWS that talking about moving to the coast will make you feel like that, he is not going anywhere he is doing it to piss you off and make you have second thoughts. It is classic.

I live in a flat and my ex says he will be renting a large house with garden "for the kids" now we are split, couldn't do it when we were together of course, just now to make me feel like rubbish and make me worry that my dc will prefer to be there when they are not with me.

So manipulative.

nitemare · 21/03/2010 18:43

He's very cleverly going to say ANYTHING that will make you change your mind and carry on putting up with his bullshit; hence him oh so casually mentioning he might move to the coats. It's all lies and designed to twist your mind. Let him go. Get a friend there next time he comes (if there is a next time). You shouldn't be doing this o your own. And believe me it feels much nicer hugging a man who isn't a user and a bullshitter so don't worry, once he's gone you can have better hugs in the future!

Maggie00 · 21/03/2010 18:43

If you truly hanker after that coastal town, or any other place for that matter, your options and opportunities are wider without him than with him. Don't forget that. When he is gone for good and the lock on the front door has been changed, YOU are in charge of YOU and the children (schools permitting and so on!). But you don't need to wait and hope he will allow you to live where you would like to live.

I know what you mean though, it would gall to see him skip off to that place and start again with just a back back so to speak while you concentrate on making sure that the children are settled.

This day is nearly over. You might never have another day as emotionally exhausting as this one. I know I never have since I stopped engaging with x.

nitemare · 21/03/2010 18:44

coast, not coats!

Forthebestagain · 21/03/2010 18:44

I am worrying about that. The dc would love to live near the coast. He just needs to offer to get a puppy and they'll leave me !!!!

Oh its so confusing. Im trying so hard to remember why im doing this. To remember how I felt. He says I was imagining all the paranoia, that actually it was in my head and he was just asking questions. Then in the sam breath, he says he was paranoid and suspicious of me becuase I am so cold and wouldnt show him any affection. He says I am gorgeous and sexy and clver and funny and I am going to have men falling all over me ( I wish !) so once he is gone there is never any going back cos he wontknow what ive been up to ??

Im so scared im doing the wrong thing. Im so scared he wil make things difficult with the dc. He keeps saying he will tell them the truth about his " illnes " and how they deserve to know the truth.

Im so so tired.

Maggie00 · 21/03/2010 18:48

Wait and see how far he gets FTBA, I have visions of him sitting in his mum's house watching the 40" tv screen while he makes BIG plans.

You are NOT doing the right thing. It's hard pulling your freedom back, but you will be able to enjoy life and make your own plans and decide what to do and where to work and who to invite 'round, what to watch on TV (when you get a new one) all the tiny decisions that for most couples are a compromise, but for people in our situation were a roll-over, you will be able to make small decisions and then when you get used to that you'll want to make a few bigger ones. It is worth it. You're only doubting yourself because this day is so hard.

Maggie00 · 21/03/2010 18:48

Sorry, that should be 'You are not doing the WRONG thing"

sorry sorry!

nitemare · 21/03/2010 19:02

DON'T LISTEN TO HIM!!!! PLEASE try to keep in mind that he is pushing your buttons; saying anything that will make you panic and want to stay with him, and it's working!!! STOP LISTENING. If it helps you kick him out then i will be harsh and say "Stop being a mug!!"
Believe me he will never get the kids; he's a drug taker, dealer, jobless, liar. Don't worry about his threats. And the kids are 5 and 6 they will not want to leave their mum and he'll be too lazy to bother fighting you for them. Get him out of the house now before you wreck all the good work you've done to this point. Worry later, stop talking to the man; he isn't normal.

nitemare · 21/03/2010 19:03

PLEASE stop listening to him. None of it makes sense; it is only designed to make you feel bad

ItsGraceAgain · 21/03/2010 19:09

Err, what's he planning to tell the kids about his "illness" do you reckon? "Listen up, children, I am a drug-addicted waster and have a mental abnormality that means I only care about myself, no matter the cost to others. No, I don't care about you either, kiddies. Sorry."

Haha.

ItsGraceAgain · 21/03/2010 19:16

FTB, take a deep breath and unwrap a chocolate bar. Remember Sam Vaknin, the self-obsessed Narcissist who makes his living by telling his truth?

This is from his page on having children:-

As siblings or progeny grow older, the narcissist begins to see their potential to be edifying, reliable and satisfactory Sources of Narcissistic Supply. His attitude, then, is completely transformed. The former threats have now become promising potentials. He cultivates those whom he trusts to be the most rewarding. He encourages them to idolise him, to adore him, to be awed by him, to admire his deeds and capabilities, to learn to blindly trust and obey him, in short to surrender to his charisma and to become submerged in his follies-de-grandeur.

It is at this stage that the risk of child abuse - from emotional incest and up to and including outright incest - is heightened. The narcissist is auto-erotic. He is the preferred object of his own sexual attraction. His siblings and his children share his genetic material. Molesting or having intercourse with them is as close as the narcissist gets to having sex with himself.

Moreover, the narcissist perceives sex in terms of annexation. The partner is "assimilated" and becomes an extension of the narcissist, a fully controlled and manipulated object. Sex, to the narcissist, is the ultimate act of depersonalization and objectification of the other. He actually masturbates with other people's bodies.

Once he's gone, you should tell the children a child-sized edition of the truth, by the way. Vaknin himself says so.

Digitalis · 21/03/2010 19:20

Hi ForTheBestAgain

I'm also an NPD survivor and I've been free for one year this weekend.

You are doing extremely well, I do feel for you.

I cannot believe the similarities between what your N says and mine. It is truly eye-opening - weed habits, alcohol misuse or depression, these are just side issues.

This will be one of the most stressful and exhausting days of your life. But "my leaving day" last March is already becoming a distant memory, and although it's been a hard year in some ways, in others it's been liberating. I have no regrets whatsoever and I was with my N for 26 years!!

Anyway, the more you find out about NPD the better you will become at dealing with him IMHO.

N's are addicted to attention/drama - both of a positive and negative type. So the best way to get rid of them is not to engage or react if you can possibly help it. Maybe you've been doing this already and that's why he's calling you "cold".??

If he get's no reaction from you and you answer with a bland reply like "sorry you feel that way" and interact only about practical things he will eventually become bored and move on to others who will react.

Be prepared for him to have another woman on the go in a very short time, it took mine 3 weeks and seems to be a pattern with these guys.

I really hope this advice helps and I will be thinking about you and rooting for you to get him out of yours and your DC's lives. His seaside perfect life is an illusion. XX

saddest · 21/03/2010 19:27

Do go to the docs FTBA....You need support and so do your kids. He won't be able to scare you so much if you have professional opinion behind you.

The FACT is he takes illegal drugs.

The FACT is that he is emotionally abusing you.

When I discovered emails between my "mother" and h about reporting me to social services...I was terrified. My nurse practitioner said...." bring it on!"

I can hear her saying it, in my head when I wake up terrified in the middle of the night.

Speak to womens aid too...they are so calm and matter of fact about these things. The know the script, they know how these "men" operate.

Get help and support and stay with us here.

xxx

Digitalis · 21/03/2010 20:02

It's Grace Again

I still read that chapter by Sam Vaknin a lot, even though he's a narc, especially after contact with my N. It is very true in my case (apart frm the sexual abuse bit).

Because I "overstayed" in my N relationship and didn't get out when I saw the warning signs, (for the usual reasons). My N proceeded to devalue and discard our son when he reached the age of 13/14. He was no longer malleable and useful to him. My N criticised our DS, put him down, tried to control him, tried to use him as a "showpiece". As a result DS went off the rails and even took an overdose.

Finally when I was referred to mental health services after NH had convinced me I was mentally ill (because I wasn't agreeing with him), did a therapist help me to see what was going on.

I'm so glad FTBA is getting out before things get any worse.

Another great article by Sam Vaknin is "Narcissistic Rage and Narcissistic Injury - The Intermittent Explosive Narcissist." It helps to understand why they go off on one and talk such utter crap. Sorry don't know how to link to it.

saddest · 21/03/2010 20:28

My word, It really is like being in the same nightmare.

The thing that triggered me telling H not to come back until he sought help was the way his behaviour changed, not so much toward me, (although it was becoming intolerable), but the way he had started to treat my son.

Odd.. I can pinpoint the day! Ds's 13th birthday. Although being able to pinpoint a "switch" is apparently not uncommon.

The script in H's head is/was that they would end up having a physical fight. Except H was the one starting it. Making stuff up that Ds had done, and starting to push him around.

I was yelled at for "undermining " him, AND HIS "authority" over he kids if I said anything. Like that stopped me! Physical violence is just that. Maybe an insight into his own upbringing?

I was convinced that I was going mad. And that is why I am here. I have been told by five mental health professionals now, that there is nothing whatsoever wrong with me. BUT they would very much like to talk to him.

One of the things a therapist said to me was..." Where on earth did he learn his parenting skills?!"

It all goes in...it all gives me the strength that I need to get through the excrutiating grief of each day.

saddest · 21/03/2010 20:31

Oh and DS had reached the same height as h.

Height is a real issue for h.

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