I think I have to leave my husband

[PlaidJane]

I have had a nice little life the past few years with my DH, we get on well he’s a nice guy generally and we have an enjoyable time together. He’s quite insecure in his looks and not overly confident so I do feel I fall into the pattern of being a bit motherly, you know giving him reassurance. He says a lot of the time that I’m out of his league. This isn’t wildly attractive I’m sure some people would agree and I can find it annoying as I am not that shallow, I want someone who makes me feel loved and is nice that’s all.

I’d say the issue in our relationship up until now is that I feel like I am putting on a perfect persona all the time as he finds it hard to cope with me in any other raw format version. He gets defensive and upset if I have any Big Feelings - even if they aren’t related to him at all. Therefore I don’t share many big or small feelings with him. Hence the plodding along.

Over time I recognise I feel friendly affection for him with our lives tied together in a house and joint assets etc and I wasn’t going to disrupt anything.

I am a people pleaser and I find it so hard to let people down or put myself first.

I have been working on a short term project with another man for some months now which has ended. During this time we got along great, but I didn’t think anything much of it as I knew the project would end and mostly thought just this guy is a nice guy.

I don’t think we spoke emotionally or overshared our personal lives more than normal colleagues, we worked well as a team and had good fun in the process. As the project came to an end and we said goodbye, we both simultaneously appeared to realise we had formed some kind of feelings for each other.

I assume this is what happens to movie stars on film sets or strictly shows, when you spend a lot of time with someone in close proximity. So I’m not sure it’s real at all. I got worried I was in limerance so was working on detachment

We have had one honest in person conversation about this where we shared exactly identical experiences and thoughts about each other - it’s so weird and uncanny. I feel like we just wanted to check we were not going mad and deluded in our own minds? These moments in our minds were totally identical realisations or memories, matched each other in sync. This has never happened to me before. We both admitted we had grown attracted to each other physically but more than that, we liked each others personalities and couldn’t stop thinking about the other. It’s affecting both our sleep and appetites. We have agreed we need to detach because it’s very dangerous

Running off together is ridiculous, this isn’t some big romantic movie, also this is an awful thing to do to my husband. I’d rather be single right now and have none of this hassle I just want to run away from everything and everyone

I think I’m having a midlife crisis of some kind and I have to leave my DH but I don’t know where to even begin to detangle our complex finances. We don’t have any savings and a huge mortgage and the market is terrible right now for selling. I also feel sick at the thought of telling him I’m not romantically in love with him as it would break his heart.

He’s manipulative op, this and your subsequent posts show it, he’s manipulative and controlling, he does it via emotions

It's that because your changing behaviour has made him suspect that you might be up to something behind his back? Or is he there to make you feel uncomfortable or to try and take away some of your personal freedom?

He hates the gym I’ve asked him loads of times to join and basically begged him to spend time with me or enjoy things I like in the past

Yes I think its to take away my freedom and make a point that he can get fitter if he sets his mind to it

I think he thinks I’m trying to manipulate him into becoming more attractive because he’s always telling me what he thinks I like (I bet you want someone with big muscles) and I’m always having to tell him no no it’s you I want etc

I think I am doing grey rock? I’m not attempting to cause a disagreement I’m just not engaging in my usual patterns

He sounds a lot like my ex. He felt it was my job to keep him emotionally regulated. His baseline setting was irritable and sullen and it was my job to jolly him up or talk him round. And he was moody on purpose.

It’s abusive to outsource emotional regulation to others. Once someone is doing this I don’t think there’s any coming back from it.

I’m very hyper aware the longer this continues that he has not one single time reached out to me lovingly and asked if everything is ok, if there is anything I need. He’s getting more angry. I was non accusatory when I spoke about how it was hard to get feedback from him but he took this very badly and has clearly interpreted my needs as irrelevant or annoying.

That he expects me to just accept him any way he presents and never challenge anything isn’t love, it’s not growth. I saw him in such a different light yesterday, when he was stomping around slamming doors and refusing to engage with me on a basic emotional level is just not what I want, he’s never going to grow or change, I always have to tell him what do to and how to be towards me - and it takes so long to get him to accept my needs I gather yet another wound in the process through the struggle. If I sat him down and walked him through this step by step he would fight me on every point, then try to pretend to be working on himself

I don’t know if he can give me what I need.

I don’t know how to leave and I have nowhere to go

Look up DISMISSIVE AVOIDANT. I don’t know if this link will work but I hope it does :

www.instagram.com/reel/DZdAXBgRaNX/?igsh=MW11eGF0OHltN2N2dg==

Just throwing this out there...he's joined the gym, is on his phone a lot and seems off? Could he be seeing someone else?

I can pretty much say no he hasn’t met anyone else. I wouldn’t ever think he would have the self confidence to do this. He can barely have sex with me without spiralling

Could you afford the house on your own?

All three of my husbands refused to go to counselling absutely refused until I filed for divorce and then they were suddenly desperate to go for counselling.
Of course by then it was way to late I just wasnt interested after years of asking.
Id approch by telling him you are thinking of leaving and if counselling is off the menu for him then you'll just leave as he clearly isnt wanting to try and fix the marriage.
Thats if you still want to save the marriage. Usually by the time they wake up its too late anyway.

I can’t afford the house on my own. I can afford a shared ownership flat

I’ve never known anyone be so angry about so much of nothing in my life. Today we already had plans with family and he spent all day huffing and puffing and refusing to sit down. I was detached in that I did not ask once ‘what’s wrong’ or ‘are you ok can I make you feel better’ but not rude or unhelpful, I kept asking what help he needed he either ignored me or snapped. I don’t know how much longer he can hold out before losing his temper completely but I assume we might have a big talk tonight. He doesn’t enjoy anything, it’s so draining to be around

I think he needs to see his GP about his low mood. I would suggest this but not get drawn into lengthy conversations about it

You can't stay just because of the house, you both sound miserable and it doesn't sound like you even like each other.

His fixation on your looks paired with his moods would just make me think that he's sticking around because he couldn't find anyone similar/better physically and that's what matters to him

Just go. Get out while you can and then deal with the fallout. That poor woman whose husband stabbed her to death tried to leave and was killed gor it. Don’t be naive and think that he can’t become violent and more abusive when you tell him you eill leave. He has shown you, clearly, that he will be angry when you choose not to stroke his ego.

@PlaidJane This is so sad - the more you explain the worse it sounds - this isn't a marriage where two people do what they can to support and enrich each others life - it's bloody terrible - can't you see that? He's incredibly self-centred and manipulative, emotionally abusive and controlling - he seems to be a person with a lot of complex problems - medical, mental (who knows!?) but it's not up to you to try and fix him - I don't think you stand a chance of changing anything anyway - he's got no respect or love for you has he? You're just a punch bag to him. Could you engineer for him to move back in with his parents to give you some space and time to work out what you are going to do because you really do need to do something about this horrible life you have together - he's not going to do anything unless he is forced to.

I have 3 friends from childhood who share a similar story. All Catholic girls. Married early, were horribly abused emotionally for years but they tried to stick it out and make it work while they had young children. All 3 eventually fled and divorced - one went on to marry a lovely guy, one unfortunately married an equally dysfunctional man (who controls every penny they spend but she is in a far better situation overall) and the other has remained single. All 3 came from largish Catholic families with a miscellany of problems at home - alcoholic and physically abusive fathers, SA, the kind of horrifying homelife that triggered them into wanting to find a way to leave the family home ASAP - I've no idea about your early life but I think their subservient and guilt ridden personalities brought out the worst qualities of the men they ended up first marrying.

What are you going to do? I don't think you are going to get anywhere by talking to him.

Talk to your GP to document the start of your journey out of this relationship - they may be able to signpost you to local organisations.

Look for the National Domestic Abuse Line run by Refuge.(0808 2000 247)
https://www.nationaldahelpline.org.uk/

Contact Women's Aid https://womensaid.org.uk/about-us/contact/

Victim Support (08 08 16 89 111)
https://www.victimsupport.org.uk/

and the Samaritans (116 123)
https://www.samaritans.org/

Rights of Women can give you some legal advice.
https://www.rightsofwomen.org.uk/about-us/contact-us/

There are 6 places to start - try every single one of them.

The one of the 3 women that has been happily re-married for 25+ years (and had 2 further children) has a partner that really understands the trauma that she experienced in her first marriage and 25+ years on he is still so understanding and accepting of the impact that first marriage has had on her (this is what we end up talking about all night whenever we see them both) - which is wonderful on one level but sadly also tells you what a huge impact that first marriage has had on her. I think that lasted only about 7-8 years as she left with one child walking and one in a pushchair.

Thanks for spending time writing responses I really appreciate it.

We had a big chat, well it was a confrontation from his end. I’m right he’s absolutely furious with all the little things I do, or don’t do. He was furious when we were talking, even though I wasn’t being confrontational in response. He had a whole list of all the ways I’m annoying him, being selfish, not considering him. Apparently he tells himself to ‘let it go’ but then doesn’t let it go. He doesn’t tell anyone he’s angry, because he ‘doesn’t want a fight’. He says he went through the same thing with his ex wife so he did admit he might be the issue.

I gave him the feedback that living with someone in a silent fury is horrible. I can’t ever seem to make him happy, therefore I detach and check out, he holds on to resentment about the most minor annoyances and the main person he is hurting is himself, but is this really how he wants to live his life. I explained that filling up a bucket with a hole in is a pointless and tiring task. He sees himself as super selfless, putting his own needs last and thinks I am selfish for meeting my own needs

An example of this is when hosting, he won’t eat or sit down until he feels completely sure everyone has eaten and got a drink, even if he’s hungry and thirsty he will bravely go without for everyone else’s sake. But my approach is I say to everyone ‘please help yourselves’ and leave them to fend for themselves to a certain degree. So he’s simmering with resentment that I don’t recognise his noble sacrifice and do the same. But it’s not that noble if you are expecting recognition is it

It’s been left that he angrily stated he would get help

He had a whole list of all the ways I’m annoying him, being selfish, not considering him.

This does not surprise me at all. And , based on the one example you gave, it's actually not just this, it's ALSO that you are not constantly thanking/praising/worshipping him for the things he thinks he's doing that are so brilliant and good.

Really, what it comes down to is that he wants you to center HIM in all things, and at all times. Which means being completely aware of what he wants, and accomodating that, and, being cmopletely and totally grateful for anything he does for you - you are not supposed to expect anything from him as a matter of course.

You said that your family and friends love him in an earlier response to me. the point about him hovering around, getting everything for everyone is interesting - so they see him being super helpful and considerate and kind. Is there any sort of perception in your family/friends that you're high maintenance and his behaviour reinforces that?

In my experience, men like this often land up with women whose families' accidentally make their abuse and behaviour worse. And it's often only when the family/friends start to see it, that anything changes. So comments like, "Oh, Jane, you are too hard on him - he's trying his best" or "You are lucky to have him - after all those terrible men you chose previously" (x100 if your children's dad was a plonker) or "It's good you've got him as otherwise you'd never eat a proper meal/live in a clean house/ drive a car that works" or whatever.

@Iwanttobeafraser yeah of course it’s this, he comes across as the worlds most best doting husband, better than all other husbands because he does so much. It’s not for free though, there is a price!

I am seen as the lazy, less caring one as if someone wants something, I will say to the kids you have your own arms and legs don’t you? rather than doing it for them. They learn to do skills and I don’t resent them. Win win.

I’m also seen as demanding I think because it comes across I am expecting him to do all this, when I’m not

He brought up that I go out to the gym or to run a lot, I get my own free time and he wants more time with me. I outlined this was a sacrifice of my OWN time at 6am, and didn’t encroach on anyone else’s time, everyone else was still asleep. I take less sleep to offset that it doesn’t eat into family time as much

I’m sorry you are going through all this OP. Just to comment on one of your earlier points that the housing market is difficult at the moment. Yes it is, but not to sell, as there’s hardly anything on the market atm. It’s tough to find somewhere to move to, but not impossible. I had to sell a large detached house (my late DFs), and my DD was looking to sell her 3 bed semi move to a better area for schools. Both houses got loads of offers, went to best and final offers, and sold above asking price with 2 weeks.

In the case of my SIL, in their family, she has a reputation for being hard work. As a result, exBIL was able to completely use this to manipulate her and them for a very long time.

Things like.... she can be extremely unpleasant when she's angry. This is a known and established feature of her personality which of course, none of us like. He would behave in ways that made her angry, then when she lashed out, he'd go all puppy dog to her family about how hard it was for him. It worked a LOT of the time. And I'd sit there going, "Hang on, she was totally not okay there, but does anyone else think it's an issue that the reason she lost it is becuase he's sitting on his butt at home, not working, and also not doing the childcare or any of the household chores!?" and they'd all say, "oh, he just needs a bit of guidance" or "she should ask him and not just expect it".

Or another example was that he would tell everyone how much he loved her and how he'd never had a partner like her at all and then there'd be the sad face because he just wants to spend time with her but she's never got any time for him..... she was working full time, studying, and liked to exercise while he was working a max of 20 hours a week so had more time, but still couldn't even do the basics of cleaning or laundry. She was absolutely around for him, but it was quite challenging as she had so much going on. And yet, they'd all tell her that she needed to "prioritise" him.

Or they'd tell her how ungrateful she was becuase sometimes (note, SOMETIMES), he'd cook for her. Except, he only EVER cooked very heavy, highly calorific meals (if it wasn't deep fried, preferably with cream added, he wasn't interested in cooking it). She is very health conscious and hates that kind of food. But no, according to her family, SHE was the problem.

For me, as a relative outsider, I just couldn't figure it out. Why were their expectations for their daughter's partner so low. He never put his hand in his pocket, he never helped them with anything, he never acted happy ... and even though they admitted this, they still somehow thought it was HER fault. I remember FIL acknowledging once that it was a bit sad that she was 100% funding their lifestyle, and then in the next sentence saying something about how it's not hsi fault he's such a poor earner!? And this was a man who literally nearly killed himself working because providing for his family was central to his entire persoanlity.

My parents love DH. When they met him, they had a few concerns as he was basically in the kind of job that was never going to go anywhere, but he quickly proved that he was a good guy, who put effort in for me and for other people, that he was reliable and that beause of him it was easier fo rme to hve the career I had etc etc. And yet, if he so much as looks at me funny, they're 100% on my side, INSTANTLY. So that mindset of my PIL is something I've always struggled with and I truly believe is why SIL took so long to realise that this man was a terrible terrible person.

Covert narc! Be careful—they love public martyrdom snd when you stop praising them and giving them their narcissistic supply they will turn to everyone in your social group and family and a) ruin your good name snd b) get their kibbles snd emotional satisfaction from the praise they get for putting up with you.

Stop negotiating and explaining. If/when you realize how toxic this man is just say, serenely “looks like we are not a good match. Lets just call it quits.” Then go.

You can not fix him.he can’t change.

Unspoken expectations are premeditated resentments. He isn’t keeping quiet to avoid conflict, he’s keeping quiet because he knows if he brings it up (like the hosting issue) it will be met with a sensible discussion and he will have to acknowledge he has no right to be angry with you.

He has a victim mentality. And every victim needs a villain. Don’t underestimate how low they can sink.

He spirals just having sex? Do you mean he's turning sex into some sort of emotional marathon where you have to pander to him, or is he actively avoiding it?

It's all so strange. In many ways it seems like he's fetishising you, your appearance. If he's spending all of sex putting himself down then that rings alarm bells too; there are men out there who absolutely get off on feeling degraded (self degradation is absolutely a thing, it doesn't need to be a partner saying it), even if he's expecting you to pull him back up. Either that or he enjoys degrading himself as a way to make you pity him, to pull your heartstrings and keep you under his thumb.

It's all very odd.

Sex aside, frankly he sounds like an absolute nightmare. It absolutely is abusive, he's manipulating you to behave in a certain way to suit him. You talk a lot about your physical appearance in this thread and it seems to come hand in hand with him. Again, it's like he's fetishising you. And now you're not playing along with his weird games where you appease him and soothe him. His little doll has a personality and he doesn't like it.

I'm sorry, OP. It must be really distressing seeing things more clearly. Keep on detaching, I am certain there will be more behaviours that will come to light that you'll recognise as unsettling. Because it absolutely is extremely unsettling.

Wow what does he want you to be doing, staying at home and kissing his feet?

Yuck I'm sorry but he comes across like a big wet blanket who has made his entire personality being the worlds best husband whilst making you walk on eggshells for the privilege

What is your plan? Do you truly believe any 'help' he will get can change who he is and how he views himself? I think you would flourish without him in your life