I think I have to leave my husband

[PlaidJane]

I have had a nice little life the past few years with my DH, we get on well he’s a nice guy generally and we have an enjoyable time together. He’s quite insecure in his looks and not overly confident so I do feel I fall into the pattern of being a bit motherly, you know giving him reassurance. He says a lot of the time that I’m out of his league. This isn’t wildly attractive I’m sure some people would agree and I can find it annoying as I am not that shallow, I want someone who makes me feel loved and is nice that’s all.

I’d say the issue in our relationship up until now is that I feel like I am putting on a perfect persona all the time as he finds it hard to cope with me in any other raw format version. He gets defensive and upset if I have any Big Feelings - even if they aren’t related to him at all. Therefore I don’t share many big or small feelings with him. Hence the plodding along.

Over time I recognise I feel friendly affection for him with our lives tied together in a house and joint assets etc and I wasn’t going to disrupt anything.

I am a people pleaser and I find it so hard to let people down or put myself first.

I have been working on a short term project with another man for some months now which has ended. During this time we got along great, but I didn’t think anything much of it as I knew the project would end and mostly thought just this guy is a nice guy.

I don’t think we spoke emotionally or overshared our personal lives more than normal colleagues, we worked well as a team and had good fun in the process. As the project came to an end and we said goodbye, we both simultaneously appeared to realise we had formed some kind of feelings for each other.

I assume this is what happens to movie stars on film sets or strictly shows, when you spend a lot of time with someone in close proximity. So I’m not sure it’s real at all. I got worried I was in limerance so was working on detachment

We have had one honest in person conversation about this where we shared exactly identical experiences and thoughts about each other - it’s so weird and uncanny. I feel like we just wanted to check we were not going mad and deluded in our own minds? These moments in our minds were totally identical realisations or memories, matched each other in sync. This has never happened to me before. We both admitted we had grown attracted to each other physically but more than that, we liked each others personalities and couldn’t stop thinking about the other. It’s affecting both our sleep and appetites. We have agreed we need to detach because it’s very dangerous

Running off together is ridiculous, this isn’t some big romantic movie, also this is an awful thing to do to my husband. I’d rather be single right now and have none of this hassle I just want to run away from everything and everyone

I think I’m having a midlife crisis of some kind and I have to leave my DH but I don’t know where to even begin to detangle our complex finances. We don’t have any savings and a huge mortgage and the market is terrible right now for selling. I also feel sick at the thought of telling him I’m not romantically in love with him as it would break his heart.

I think your husband sounds horrible and he values you for your appearance only. If he felt that insecure he’d do something about his own but instead goes into victim mode.
Do you want to live the rest of your life like this?
As for concerns about illness he does nothing for you anyway.
I am not going to flame you for having feelings for someone else. It happens to good people all the time. It’s what they do about it that matters.

He sounds a little like a covert narcissist to me - using his insecurity/vulnerability to make things all about himself and not offer you support or help with your problems/ feelings. All the "aw shucks your so much better than me, I'm gross" sounds like fishing for compliments to me.

I definitely wouldn't be with someone like this. He sounds attention seeking

I’ve had such a good think. I am considering whether DH is low level depressed. I’ve wondered this for a long time. I’ve suggested it and he’s not open to it, mainly because he thinks it would involve opening up. I think he could do with medication in all honesty doesn’t necessarily need to be therapy. But I have realised I can’t make him do anything and I need to stop being an enabler for his behaviour. I think he needs my mood and attention to keep his mood up. So I feel all the weight of responsibility on me for everyone’s mood.

I also do feed into his moods by trying to cheer him up and I’ve stopped engaging in that. He’s not open to any information right now so telling him he’s harming our relationship with his behaviour is not being taken in board. I need to let him go down his path and just not be dragged along for the ride. I think this will mean he will need to hit a point where he starts asking himself questions and look for solutions as I’m not there to smooth it all over for him so he can avoid facing up to it

This is a lot of word salad so basically I’m gonna focus on myself and less on trying to make him happy

I think you’re looking for excuses/reasons for his already terrible behaviour, Op. what if he definitely wasn’t depressed and the end result on you and how you’ve described feeling was the same? Do you honestly think his depression is the reason he only appears to value how you look. Plenty of depressed people don’t leave their partner twice or make them feel less like themselves. I hope it dawns on you before you spend further years of your one precious life having to manage around your mercurial not so ‘d’ h

@Lilaclane I am very confused because I started to worry I was doing ‘the script’ and suddenly saying and thinking all these new things as excuses.

I do think I was not aware of being unhappy before the incident with the colleague, I was just ok. It was fine. Thing is, I had a low bar to compare it to perhaps. He comes across as a simple human who is happy with the simple things in life but he’s actually not. I don’t recall seeing him happy about much really he has a non plussed reaction to most things

When I got married to DH I was excited and happy to marry him to share our lives, but I made it very clear it was to be small and not a big fuss. The one thing I doubted was our physical attraction because I’m finding it hard to engage with that due to things he does or says.

I have had moments of doubts about him but I always think well everyone has flaws and I’m sure everyone has doubts from time to time, life can’t always be passion and romance, friendship is equally important, right? Because he puts me on the pedestal, it makes me feel like I’m the one in charge of everything but I’m actually not, he is

@PlaidJane it’s absolutely fine to not want to be with him. You don’t need to talk yourself into it. For what it’s worth I wouldn’t want to be married to the man, either. Life is too short to be so miserable and it doesn’t sound like he’s helping himself much.

i wish you well

You don't presumably have children with him.

You aren't attracted to him, much or at all, it's not clear? That is quite a big sign that things aren't ok.

The 'friendship' side is waning a bit.

I agree with your solution for now, though- get happier in yourself and see how you feel later down the line.

Yeah I think he makes you think you're in control "you're so much better than me" when actually you're right - he's in control. He's the one who tried to leave you twice, he's the one who dictates how you behave with his moods etc. he sounds manipulative to me. I've met men like this! They make you feel sorry for them. From what you've described, he's not nice!

OP, you need to find your rage. Try therapy on your own. It will really help you to navigate your feelings and wants.

I feel so sorry about this. You can see quite clearly what you need and you aren't getting it. As he is insecure, and his first wife left him, it is understandable that you are reluctant to repeat the pattern, but really the pattern belongs to him. Can you sit him down and say that you are not happy with how things are in the marriage but want to make an effort to make it better. That would mean him acknowledging your feelings, and you insisting that he makes an effort too if the marriage is to continue. That means marriage counselling or, as a minimum counselling for him on his own, and soon, not put off. Then, if the marriage does have to end, it will be his decision in a sense, if he is unwilling or unable to make the needed effort. 🍀

What's he like if you show anger? You have every right to be authentically angry at the way he dismisses your needs and feelings and appears to objectify you. Do you ever show him your rage? It might jolt him out of his miserable apathy.

You don’t have to “earn” your way out of this marriage.

I don’t know if I want to fix it. It’s like I’ve woken up.

The advice given on this thread is so insightful and I’m truly grateful.

I’m working on detachment.

sorry if this is long and boring 😂

I went out last night for a completely sober evening with female work colleagues. Partly this was to get away from his low mood, start building up my own social life and see how he manages this.

He text me to ask if I was ok a few times, and I replied yes.

When I got home he wasn’t very enthusiastic to see me, looked a bit miffed and was lying on the bed on his phone. I tried to make conversation but he just seemed quite flat and complaining about the evening out with his friend which was a bit rubbish. I got into bed and he stayed on his phone. I think perhaps he would have usually expected me to initiate sex because he rarely ever does, but he didn’t move and I fell asleep. I woke up a little while later and he was still on his phone. As usual I woke up first, went for a run, sorted the pets while he slept. He then woke up complaining of shoulder pain. I didn’t comment on this and we both got up and went to work.

I know I would usually be worrying, asking him if he’s ok, trying to help him, trying to cheer him up, trying to raise his spirits, entertaining him with a performance, seducing him but I am not doing this so he’s got to feel all his own feelings

I’m planning some more social things for myself this month

I’m taking back control as I realise, I have none

@GreenCandleWax I don’t feel angry about this. No I don’t get angry often. It’s a running joke he’s never seen me super angry. Usually it’s because we would joke we got on so well but I’ve seen him angry loads of times. He’s got no patience and shouts often

Ok, you are me three years ago.

A friendship and closeness with a colleague threw a massive light on my marriage, and made me realise,
over quite a long period, exactly how much was missing, and that we were friendly, but ultimately not in love, and had grown to be quite dissimilar people really.

It took three years but we amicably separated and my colleague then left his wife, told me he loved me, but I had moved past all that. Looking back, my feelings for him were a thought experiment to see how leaving my marriage might feel.

He was NOT the answer; he was a part of how I worked out the solution.

Within weeks of separating I out of the blue met someone who is just perfect for me, and I am so much happier, and can finally be my full vulnerable self, and completely loved for that at the same time.

Its wonderful and also a massive relief.

Just my little story 🤷‍♀️ If it helps in anyway, I’m glad. It’s a very difficult corner to find yourself fighting your way out of, but ultimately I found the doing of it easier than the living with it.

I think is more lack of experience of these situations in life - sometimes you feel a fizzy magical connection with someone that you have spent an unusual amount of time with and I guess that you haven't been is many such situations and can't handle the wave of feelings that go with this "connection". If you have a life or a job where you collaborate or closely work with new people you experience this arise quite naturally (my vet friend gets this quite often for example) - I'm a musician and to some extent a writer that collaborates with other people - no doubt anyone in the create arts gets to experience this - you rehearse for a play or a gig together, etc. and you sometimes have this great feeling when you are together. You are over reacting to this frisson perhaps because you haven't experienced it before - it's enjoyable but imho - the honest truth is that it doesn't actually mean anything more than that you had a connection of sorts which you enjoyed and it not unusual at all if you have been working with or around someone. It's bit like a fantasy - I think you can enjoy your fantasies and let your partner in on them but often, letting them cross that line and out into reality is a big mistake. Acting on your feelings now - on something so short lived will most probably be a big mistake. Take some time away from it. You might not have been through this before and I guess, judging by the conversation you had with him, he is equally naive in this context - but you'll find plenty of people who know this effect and they ride it like a wave - they have experience of it, understand it and don't feel any inclination to act on it.

@PlaidJane

I'm so sorry. This sounds so hard.

Is he the father of your kids?

No he’s not their father. If I leave I can try to find somewhere for all of us or they could start out on their own due to their age. I just feel pretty terrible about saying hey sorry, we need to find a new home. They have been with us rent free until they find their feet so I can’t afford a 2nd new home plus continue paying the current one, we can’t buy each other out. I assume they wouldn’t want to stay with him if I was the one who left.

While I don’t want to hurt him in some way it would be easier for me to take on the villain role. He could demonise me, discard me and hate me and maybe that’s easier than having to have all the other awful conversations where I would feel like I am blaming him. I’m not. He’s not all bad and I don’t want to start down that path, I’m not an angel

I'm really struggling to understand this man. I originally thought he had traits of a vulnerable narcissist, but I'm not sure that's really true. I do find it interesting that in your original response to me you said he doesn' tmind you going out etc etc... and yet apparently last night he texted you multiple times? I was also out last night with a girlfriend and no, DH didn't text me a single time. Becuase, unless there's a really good reason, why would he interupt me while I'm out with a friend? So perhaps he DOES mind and he doesn't like it but because he doesn't make a huge song and dance, you've not reall ynnoticed?

Ditto the silent treatment. When and why does he do that? Because actually, that is controlling and narcissistic behaviour.

I can't help wondering if the issue here is that in your head, because he's sad/depressed/vulnerable and NOT angry/shouting, you think he needs help vs him being abusive?

From your description of him texting you and being in a mood when you got home he obviously does mind you going out. How do your children feel about his moods and silent treatment? Could you afford the house on your own?

Yes he sounded like a vulnerable narcissist to me.

They're horribly hard to figure out though, because their control and abuse is all around being the victim/moods/silent treatment and making you feel sorry for them! So it's much harder to spot than someone who outright shouts/gets angry and is controlling

I don’t really go out, so I’ve not had much experience of him being annoyed about it.

But yes I can see it might bother him but he is worried about the optics if he says it out loud so it’s implied. He always wants to be the nice guy

Last night was an experiment. I came home perfectly friendly and amenable I am not actively trying to start any rows. I told him where I was going in advance, text him when I was out and leaving. Yet I came home to him in a low mood.

I am nervous of this but I have set up 2 regular recurring social events for myself to attend to be more social (not including him) and I’m going to tell him about it and see how this goes

I am enjoying having physical and mental space from him. We do everything together pretty much

The silent treatment is awful, I hate it. It’s not happened in a while but it’s always when I have brought something up about our relationship and my own feelings. but it did happen last time I went out with my friends! I got home and he had done no housework so I was a bit like wtf, we agreed you would clean up. He shouted at me then I said I did not like being shouted at. He said I hadn’t told him the exact time I would be home - I said ‘afternoon’. Then he didn’t speak to me I had to patch it all back up between us

If I was to tell him I felt I needed more help in the house he would get defensive and stroppy. I do more but hate bringing this up. His first reaction is never to stop and think ‘ok is she on to something here’ so it’s like I’m lying, just to piss him off?

The very interesting, and painful, thing about the process you're going through - and it's practically playing out on this thread in real time - is that you start off thinking that actually, most things are fine, there's just these minor niggles and are you the unreasonable one for even caring.

And then it's the old onion analogy, as you start peeling the layers, you see more and more of what's really going on.

Even just two days ago you said that although you don't go out a lot, when you do, he hasn’t got jealous and he doesn’t cause arguments but then it’s not really been tested to some extent. But now, we're seeing that while he doesn't cause arguments, he DOES give you the silent treatment, he does try to ensure you're thinking (and worrying) about him while you're out and ultimately, he is subtly doing his best to ensure you don't.

He also doesnt like it when you question his behaviour and responds either by silent treatment, or attempting to turn it on you (classic DARVO there) and making it your fault. Or both. As a result, you don't feel you can raise any issues.

I'm back to feeling certain he's got the traits of a vulnerable narcissist.

Here's the really tough thing about these people - their behaviour is abusive, controlling and manipulative. But, and this is crucial, they genuinely have no idea that they're doing it and do 100% believe they are the victim. Their thinking is completely and totally disordered. This makes it very very difficult for you as a normal, kind, empathetic person - you want them to take accountability for their actions but they genuinely can't because they honestly don't understand. They are genuinely depressed and sad because of what they perceive as unfair behaviour or unfair responses from you. And you will feel sad and guilty because of it.

But nonetheless, it is NOT your problem or your fault and you have every right to expect behaviour and responses that to the vast bulk of the rest of us are perfectly normal and reasonable.

Limerence is only a phrase I have read on here. It always struck me as weasely bullshit term to excuse appallingly stalkerish behaviour under the excuse of 'cant help it'.

@Iwanttobeafraser I value this response so much. It’s so helpful. I have so much to think about. Weirdly I am excited in some ways.. I feel awake?