Recurring rows with DH about conversation and silence at mealtimes

[Halffan]

I am struggling with my DH, we seem to go through phases of this where it builds up and then we will argue and then we will talk, resolve things and it improves only to repeat the cycles.

DH has a quiet job where he spends most of the day in his own head. I have an extremely sociable job where I am talking non stop all day.

DH was raised as a child that meal times were social events where you sat and talked and shared details of your day

I was raised that food is sustenance and a meal time is functional act, and often it’s the only time I get that’s quiet.

I am naturally sociable and extroverted so although I talk all day, I am still chatty to DH in the evenings, but at mealtimes not so much, and I’m happy to eat first, then chat after.

He is sad I don’t talk more when we eat. I’m just hungry and want to eat. Sometimes I don’t even sit with him as I don’t want a long meal time I just want to eat the food.

He says I talk too much about topics he finds frustrating, by this he means gossip and drama. So talking about other people, perhaps something someone said or did. I am aware that sometimes I fill silences with chit chat and can veer into this type of topic and when he doesn’t respond, sometimes I talk more in the misguided hope he will join in. He doesn’t like ‘judging people’ so doesn’t like gossiping. Fair enough, but I don’t know if this means I need to read more news so I have more topics to converse in

However he doesn’t really initiate topics or try to move conversations on - so he’s tolerating these in silence, and getting annoyed and frustrated.

He claims he ‘doesn’t want to be rude’ by asking me to change the subject, or communicating he would rather move on, so I have no idea at the time and continue.

He will complain if I ‘go quiet’ ie go on my phone as he will say ‘but I haven’t seen you all day’ so I am expected to talk, and not have my own down time, but I often don’t know what I should talk about, and getting him to talk to me can be a challenge.

I often feel all the weight of the responsibility of talking to him and holding conversations and when I ask him to contribute, often he will say ‘I don’t have much to add’ or ‘my day wasn’t very interesting’ so I start scrabbling around for topics and asking questions.

He says I make him feel boring. I don’t know how I can help with that. Or talk less or recognise when I’m repeating myself?

has anyone ever been in this situation

WoW, he wants you to entertain him while you eat, topics that only he wants and you're supposed to guess, it sounds hard work, especially after a day at work when all you want to do is relax, I couldn't do it, he needs to be a grown up and think of what he can do to feel relaxed while he's having his food, he is the problem,

I’d be dreading retirement with this guy.

OP sounds lovely.

If someone challenges your interpretation, do yourself a favour and at LEAST read the OP's posts before deciding to double down. That way you can avoid looking like an ignorant fool to all of us

God it sounds exhausting. Marriage isn’t meant to be this hard.

Absolutely this.

Comprehension on this site sometimes🙄, always blaming the woman somehow.

He's a controlling arse, that grinds her down after a hard day's work, he gives her fxxk all peace and expects her to entertain him by dictating her conversation.

He's controlling and IMO abusive.
I hope this thread opens her eyes to how she doesn't have have to put up with this.

are you actually compatible? Learning how to communicate after so many years together makes me think this relationship shouldn’t be so hard….

We do talk normally but I am aware that I do most of the talking

I am sure I do decompress on him verbally as I’m not getting the chance to do it another way. And yes he complained I decompressed on him a few years ago so now I don’t really talk about work that much or I just do a very quick overview and nothing in depth.

I did not have a great childhood. It’s made me wary in that I see peoples behaviours and try to process them. I internalised a lot of my feelings until I had CBT in my 20’s and I think it helped me to externalise my feelings and lose some of my sense of shame. He had a childhood where his mum was very dominating so you just internalised everything and she created a lot of shame

DH has a narrative in his head that he’s socially awkward and that it’s easier for me to come up with topics spontaneously and he struggles. I said ok you struggle so if you practice you will just get better at it. I think he would rather just avoid it because it makes him feel awkward but it is impacting our relationship

He is a nice guy otherwise I wouldn’t have married him, I do have standards we just have got into some bad habits. He is trying to create a safe and happy space for our family without really understanding my needs, or when I explain my needs taking them all personally and applying them to himself, which is really annoying and I’ve explained I am my own person and I can do things independently without it having any meaning of my feelings for him. He struggles to disconnect this concept

He absolutely pulls his weight in practical terms, he is an equal partner in finances, housework, shopping, cooking, planning weekends, appointments, school runs, pet care - everything really, so he’s super practical and hands on. He’s great with the kids however they have told him that sometimes he can respond in a jokey way when they are upset, he doesn’t cope with other people being upset very well.

I think you can't win here OP and mealtimes shouldn't be this stressful. You defend him in other areas and say he pulls his weight and is a good husband generally so maybe avoid personal chat at dinner time when you are both tired. How about keeping things relaxed by having the TV on and watching lighthearted participatory programmes while you eat such as The Chase or House of games? It might help!

@Halffan but he is going to have to help here or put up with something he says he doesn’t want. At the moment all the responsibility for fixing the “problem” is on you, but you’re not allowed to do anything that would feel better for you- and you aren’t able to do what he wants. So he either needs to proactively help, or put up with things that are not exactly how he would like them.

He is getting on my nerves but I’m not sure if it’s just me feeling a certain way after reading everyone’s responses

example: kids are home, I ask them all if they want food this morning, I get an annoying meh non response, but I’m hungry so I make a brunch type breakfast.

DH gets up and comes to the kitchen to ask if I am cooking for everyone. I say I can do, but would be easier if people answered me when I asked. I said I will make something everyone will like. I start making food and ask him to make toast. He goes to get the broom. Then he starts washing up. So I get the toaster out and put bread in it. He’s all in my way cleaning up around me. I’m stuck in this small corner of the kitchen can’t get in any of the drawers or cupboards

So calmly and politely I explain to him that usually if I come into the kitchen and he’s making food, I will ask him directly what he needs help with so that I don’t get in his way and I’m being helpful. I explain it would be good if he could ask me rather than assume what’s going to be helpful. I explain that I think washing up can be done later together as help making food would be helpful now. He gets annoyed that in his eyes, I’ve criticised him. Now he’s in a weird mood

He sounds so horrendous. Petty, moody, like a teenager.

Kindly meant, but I think you have probably been bending yourself out of shape for years for him.

I am married a long time, and we can do this.

I think you need to start ignoring him and his moods.

Perhaps move into a spare bedroom and tell him you need space.

I 100% think your relationship is controlling, manipulative and emotionally abusive.

You are just too conditioned by him.

He can say and do as he pleases, but if you so much as express a feeling you are punished for it.

Abusive.

As for the kitchen, yea, he decided he wanted to "help" on his terms.
If you don't accept it, you are punished with a mood.

Start keeping careful notes and source therapy.

You do not want to be retired with such a man.

He will ruin your mental health.

Oh and him not accepting the TV on as company?

Bagshit.

Start doing some research.
There is a coercive thread to this.
Whether he realises it or not.

ND or not.
He is so controlling it is chilling to read.

Please take seriously your feelings.
Your gut is screaming at you that this is so wrong.

You also shouldn't have cooked breakfast having gotten no response.

We teach people how to treat us!
Don't reward rudeness.

This, this, THIS!!!

I am confused.

I told him that his mood was making me feel anxious and unsure of myself. His reaction was to get more annoyed! I said if I you told me this I would feel bad and probably hug you, not make you feel worse. He backtracked saying he was going to hug me but I had walked away

What is also unhelpful here is that when we met I was quite overweight and unfit. He is a big guy who eats a lot and doesn’t enjoy activity.

I had a big health scare some years back and took stock of my lifestyle and changed my outlook and lost weight and got fit. Deep down I know he doesn’t like this but knows he can’t say anything bc he will look like a terrible person but I know he preferred me to be overweight and he’s insecure about the whole situation.

Honestly OP it's not meant to be this hard, he's absolutely tying you in knots and I agree with PP's that it's abusive. You should always be able to be yourself in a relationship and he has you second guessing your every move, that's not right or healthy.

Long term I would be questioning the future of this marriage but short term I suggest just dropping the rope. Stop censoring what you talk about, stop filling the silences, just be yourself and refuse to get sucked into his moods or reactions. If he sulks then you ignore it, behave as though he isn't in a mood and get on with your day, he can either get onboard or you will leave him behind.

Some counselling/therapy (just you, not couples) may well help you identify the patterns of his abuse and would help you gain strength and clarity to decide what you want to do long term. I hope this thread has at least opened your eyes to how far away from normal his behaviour is though, it's hard to see when you're living it but very obvious to the outside observer.

In your situation I would have pushed it - I am making ‘x’ because I am hungry - do you want me to make some for you too or not? If you don’t answer yes I will assume not. Then I would go ahead for me only. When DH asks if you were cooking for everyone ‘no, because they didn’t want any’. Then if he starts to wipe the floor in the kitchen I am working in, I would just walk on his wet floor. He could see I am cooking- what does he expect? I think you are behaving a bit like a doormat - trying not to upset anyone but they don’t respect you for it and treat you like a servant. I wouldn’t talk to him about ‘how it makes me feel’ as it just enables him to have something else to reproach you for. I suggest you do you to please yourself and if he sulks, he sulks. Ignore unreasonable behaviour and stand up for yourself. Let him come to you if he doesn’t like it. Well done on sorting your health issues - you should be proud and so should he.

This guy's got a whole cocktail of problems... would he consider therapy (for himself alone, not couples) if you could sell it to him under the guise of "it might make you feel more happy and at peace"? I know it's a long shot, but he really needs to untangle some stuff.

This is such a clear picture of how your marriage operates.

There's the terrible communication. You ask your kids if they want food, get meh. That's a non response. You need a yes or no. Your poor communication has rubbed off on your kids

So you start to make food for yourself because you're hungry. Your husband comes in and asks if you're cooking food for everyone. He didn't ask you to make something for him. The kids gave you no response, so that was a no. Your answer should have been no. But you offered to make food that no one clearly asked for. Stop doing that. Ask for clear communication.

Then, as you tried to start cooking, your husband started cleaning the kitchen, getting in your way and doing what should be done after you cook.

Why didn't you ask him to wait to clean until after you cooked?

Kids, do you want food? Yes or no.

Husband, do you want some of the food I'm making? Yes or no.

Husband, you're in my way and wait until after I'm done to clean please.

I think it's strange he decided to be in your way cleaning while you were cooking. Most people would naturally wait until after. It's like he was deliberately obstructive and when you said something about it, he had an excuse to get into a mood.

You aren't on the same wavelength, you're at cross purposes, and you're both passive aggressive, but he he is much more so than you.

I would suggest couples or marital therapy. Your communication sucks and I think that, your cross purposes, and his expectations of performative stuff from you could be addressed there.

Adding, I see some posters are saying they see abusiveness. If you agree with that, individual counseling only. Don't go to therapy with an abusive person.

I think @outerspacepotato has it spot on - OP you seem to be almost afraid of stating your position on anything.
Is this something you've learnt to do to avoid arguments?
Why can't you answer Yes or No, or insist on a Yes or No when you ask a simple question?
Why couldn't you tell your DH to wait until your finished cooking before sweeping the floor?
You literally let him push you into the corner! Where's your anger, your sense of self worth?
I'm so sad for you.

He’s manipulative and keeps you off balance because then you’re easier to control. Look how it’s worked out for him: you unsure you were reasonable (you were!), you doing extra work to feed people who hadn’t said they wanted food, him sulking when you pointed out he was actually stopping you doing the thing he wanted you to do, you unable to ask for actual help, him lined up to let you do everything “because I can’t do anything right/ please you/ I tried to help and you told me off”. In the meantime, he’s fed, he’s off jobs, he’s got you worrying about him and on edge, probably wondering how you can make it up to him/appease him/ get his approval back.

Am I even a bit close?

I agree with a lot of below.@ out

The cleaning while you were cooking was designed to cause upset.

Your weight loss challenges him and he is punishing you for it.

You are a boiled frog, look up the analogy.
It explains a bit how you will have gotten to this place.

Your communication is toxic to read.

I think a separate bedroom would give you much needed respite from him, which you badly need.
You have zero peace from him and his badgering.

Your poor childhood has probably set you up for this and not being great to advocate for yourself.

I have young adult children and a response like that would mean nothing cooked.

They would learn very quickly the consequences of such rudeness.

I really believe lone therapy would be hugely beneficial and reading up about abusive controlling relationships.

You deserve so much better than this.

His moods control you.

How quickly he turned and said he had intended to comfort you.

I would bet that was a complete lie and tells you how quickly he can change his narrative.

Wake up OP.
Confusion benefits him and keeps you abused, exhausted, and stuck.

We are here for you.

Great Post from @ holding.....he deliberately keeps you off balance, that is how he controls you, constantly badgering you, constantly correcting and controlling you.

It screams toxic abuse of you that has you hollowed out.
Thats what abuse does.

I don’t know I am confused!

I knew they would probably eat what I made as no one had eaten anything. They did eat it. I think some of them would not have chosen what I made, as it was ‘healthy’ and boring (to them) so I assume when this happens and I ask and get meh response, it’s usually because the food choice. I am good at making food though so they do enjoy it. Plus if I had made myself and no one else I expect they may see this as selfish

They aren’t all my children by the way. One of his kids notoriously ignores me to the point where I think I’m invisible! My DD is polite and will respond to questions so I am not sure the entire blame is me. I don’t think I used to be like this

If I was to demand a yes or a no to my questions I think they would all think I was being difficult or rude. I do think I’ve had to tone down my upfront-ness from what it used to be. I do really want to just say YES OR NO and then if I don’t get an answer just please myself so I am going to start doing this.

So you live with one of his children who ignores you?
But they eat your food?

Is that his daughter?
How long are you married?

You are being abused by two adult men then.

Please seek outside support to clear this confusion.

They benefit from your confusion, not you.

I'm so sorry. It sounds truly awful.

I used to rationalise constantly, finding ways to excuse his behaviour. I was exhausted and, not gonna lie, by the end of our relationship I was a shell. I still have issues relating to his behaviour thirteen years on, although space and a lot of therapy work has helped!

i don’t see you or your kids benefitting from this situation. The benefit is solely to him.