Recurring rows with DH about conversation and silence at mealtimes

[Halffan]

I am struggling with my DH, we seem to go through phases of this where it builds up and then we will argue and then we will talk, resolve things and it improves only to repeat the cycles.

DH has a quiet job where he spends most of the day in his own head. I have an extremely sociable job where I am talking non stop all day.

DH was raised as a child that meal times were social events where you sat and talked and shared details of your day

I was raised that food is sustenance and a meal time is functional act, and often it’s the only time I get that’s quiet.

I am naturally sociable and extroverted so although I talk all day, I am still chatty to DH in the evenings, but at mealtimes not so much, and I’m happy to eat first, then chat after.

He is sad I don’t talk more when we eat. I’m just hungry and want to eat. Sometimes I don’t even sit with him as I don’t want a long meal time I just want to eat the food.

He says I talk too much about topics he finds frustrating, by this he means gossip and drama. So talking about other people, perhaps something someone said or did. I am aware that sometimes I fill silences with chit chat and can veer into this type of topic and when he doesn’t respond, sometimes I talk more in the misguided hope he will join in. He doesn’t like ‘judging people’ so doesn’t like gossiping. Fair enough, but I don’t know if this means I need to read more news so I have more topics to converse in

However he doesn’t really initiate topics or try to move conversations on - so he’s tolerating these in silence, and getting annoyed and frustrated.

He claims he ‘doesn’t want to be rude’ by asking me to change the subject, or communicating he would rather move on, so I have no idea at the time and continue.

He will complain if I ‘go quiet’ ie go on my phone as he will say ‘but I haven’t seen you all day’ so I am expected to talk, and not have my own down time, but I often don’t know what I should talk about, and getting him to talk to me can be a challenge.

I often feel all the weight of the responsibility of talking to him and holding conversations and when I ask him to contribute, often he will say ‘I don’t have much to add’ or ‘my day wasn’t very interesting’ so I start scrabbling around for topics and asking questions.

He says I make him feel boring. I don’t know how I can help with that. Or talk less or recognise when I’m repeating myself?

has anyone ever been in this situation

You have mealtimes at the table? We eat sat around the TV. You have conversations about your day? My DW very quickly realised she did not understand my work in IT! Having said that it has been fun discovering all about her now that I am retired.

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He is being unreasonable. His complaints can be reduced to: ’why can you not like what I like and want what I want’. Well, cause you are not him.
I do think it’s unreasonable to sit in silence over a meal and not be willing to chat, but that is not what you are doing actually.
From my perspective:
If he wants to eat really late, that is too late for you so you will be eating earlier. If he finishes work so late, suggest to him he might like to start earlier to get back in reasonable time, or catch up work after dinner, whatever works. Dinner will be at 7:30 going forwards (or choose your time). If he comes back later I would sit with him whilst he eats.
A conversation takes 2, if he doesn’t contribute, sit in silence then. If he complains, put it back on him. ‘I’m so boring’ - well obviously I am too because I can’t think of any topics either. You are not the entertainment staff, meet him half way but no further.
’DH, I don’t enjoy listening to your podcasts and I’m not going to, you can stop recommending them. Just because you like them, doesn’t mean I do’.
He doesn’t want to be rude by moving the conversation on, ‘well DH, it’s pretty bloody rude to get angry with me for talking when you have asked me to talk and don’t indicate you don’t like the topic. Seems you don’t have a problem with THAT kind of rude eh? its almost like that whatever I do, you feel free to criticise (again, pretty rude!) so why should I bother? Maybe stop trying to make your issue my problem to solve?’

I think I'd be eating a first course / starter / appetiser at 6pm(ish), to quell the hanger and relax my system a bit. I'd be having some avocado / melon or bowl of soup or something, and if I were cooking I'd have scoffed tasted a fair bit of it probably.

Then you might enjoy just having supper and talking a little bit, as and when, with your huband. He really needs to lighten up though and communicate better.

I think your DH is being a bit unreasonable in both wanting conversation and in dictating the terms of it.

However, I will say, that I really dislike silent meals. It's possible to chew your food politely and talk at the same time. I'd be ok with it on occasion if someone articulated they'd had a stressful day and just didn't have it in them to chat, but otherwise I'd hate it.

When I first went home with my then-boyfriend, now DH, I found the fact that his family ate meals in silence very off-putting. His father was a real control freak and the silence felt heavy and controlling, essentially a way for him to emanate waves of disapproval and joylessness.

Nor could I and I think I could get in trouble if work found out I was listening to podcasts all day because how the fuck can you be thinking about and doing work at the same time?
but if he 1. Wants conversation 2. Wants you to make it and 3. Gets upset when you do then he can fuck off. ‘Dh, I can’t win here. You make conversation and I’ll try to join in. But don’t expect me to make conversation knowing I don’t want to and then when I’ve made the effort tell me I’m doing it wrong.’

Sorry, but after your latest update I have to say gossiping is not some necessary part of being a woman. Some women and some men love to gossip. I don’t, and nor do lots of women. Unless you’re using the word gossip to include other information that wouldn’t usually be classed simply as gossip, then I disagree with you there.

Your DH though sounds completely intolerable. I would usually chat with my family during meal times. None of us talk with our mouth full, but also we haven’t gone for 7-8 hours with nothing to eat, so it’s leisurely. It would never take us an hour to eat a meal. Even with friends over and everyone talking. Why is it taking him this long to eat? Especially if you’re the one doing all or most of the talking?

He can’t pick a topic himself, he objects to the ones you choose - he doesn’t tell you he’s bored of the subject you chose because he doesn’t want to be rude but will let you carry on and then later tell you that you went on too long as if that’s not rude? How are you married?

You don't deserve their affection.

I couldn’t cope with mealtimes being so stressful. I’d be eating earlier alone. You’re being set up to fail.

This

It seems to be all about you entertaining him, essentially. And he's worried you think he's boring to boot ... well, if he's relying on you for all of the above, he is. Maybe you need to say that to him.

Good grief, he sounds annoying! He can't expect conversation and lively social mealtimes without being willing to contribute significantly to the conversation. That's utterly unreasonable of him, and shame on him for complaining that you don't entertain him during meals, then turn around and say your conversation isn't of the right sort when you do try to speak.

If you're old enough that your children aren't always home for meals with you, this must have been going on for many years. If it hasn't resolved yet (or at least settled into a grudging understanding and acceptance that you're just different and that's okay), I don't know that it ever will. He's not wrong to not want to sit in silence every meal, but you're also not wrong to want peace. You've tried to engage with him, but it sounds like it's never good enough. Meanwhile, he just sits there like a bump on a log and won't even try. I'd be sick of the whole thing, in your shoes.

Here's an idea (which someone may have already suggested, as I haven't rtft): You don't want to watch TV during meals (which may be a mistake, in my humble opinion, as it gives you things to talk about together), but how about listening to a (brief episode of a) podcast together? You can pause it to converse or just listen together until the end. It might give you some things to talk about, though it will require some sacrifice from you, if you'd rather have quiet meals.

Men and women gossip but often it’s motivated by different reasons. The type of ‘gossip’ DH thinks I indulge in is probably linked to my female role because it’s predominantly about the demands of colleagues and relatives I have to deal with in life

I mentioned being a woman because women can use this way of communication to protect themselves and their children from risk. I’m more judgmental of others than my DH because I need to be warier of others to keep myself and my children safe.

@fabstraction great suggestion about listening to a podcast! You could talk about it together after dinner!

I don’t really get why it would be a problem for him if you hadn’t heard what Donald Trump said today etc - surely that’s an opportunity for him to tell you then and tell you what he thinks about it/what the news reporter’s attitude was about it etc. My DH reads more news than me and he’s never made me feel like his topics are more important than mine or that I should have been reading the news while I’ve been at work.

It’s not my idea to not watch TV. He would never agree to this

sorry, but do you think you are overthinking this?

also this from @OneFineDay22
"Sorry, but after your latest update I have to say gossiping is not some necessary part of being a woman. Some women and some men love to gossip. I don’t, and nor do lots of women. Unless you’re using the word gossip to include other information that wouldn’t usually be classed simply as gossip, then I disagree with you there."

I might talk about what’s going on my friends or relatives lives with my DH if that’s what you’re calling gossip, but I wouldn’t call that gossip as it’s an important part of interpersonal relationships. I wouldn’t want my DH to go and say the wrong thing to someone if they’re having a hard time etc. is that the kind of thing you mean? But for example, “my friend you don’t know is having an affair/squabbling with her co-worker/whatever” is gossip.

Love this!

And as I was reading that, I thought “there you are!” because I could feel your personality and spark emerging from under the mountains of confusion and criticism.

So articulate, and incisive but you’ve also written hundreds of words here going round in circles, chasing your tail. This is gaslighting . The reason you’re confused is because there is no solution.

Normal couples have different interests, and these days can be in completely different media bubbles, differing energy and socialisation needs, but manage to muddle along. This is really off kilter. I can hear your concern for his needs, his traditions, his feelings. But at the point in the day when you’re at your lowest ebb, and not capable of filling his cup, where is the reciprocal care and consideration?

My advice is that you eat earlier for the next few days, so you’re not going home hangry, and pay attention to what is going on in this dynamic.

So what you are saying you are totally incompatible.

I’m not talking about people having affairs no, but sometimes people do things that don’t make sense or impact you so I will talk to him about it.

Yes if it impacts you or you’re talking about a behaviour to try and understand it I wouldn’t call that gossip tbh.

What do you think about @fabstraction ’s idea about listening to a podcast during your meal time?

I think your DH is being unfair and a bit odd and that this shouldn’t be all your problem to solve.

Having read your updates it does sound dire and that he expecting you to make all the effort - you even eat at his dictated time despite this not working for you.

Have things always been like this? I read your OP as though this was a temporary blip but its now sounding like this is an ongoing dynamic?

You do sound like you're being set up to fail - dancing around his likes and dislike while he just gives you negative feedback. Do you think he really knows how you feel about it all?

So basically what you're saying is that he's not interested in your life or your thoughts or your experiences, he only wants to talk about 'ideas'?

I think this is about a lot more than differing levels of desire for conversation and a lot more about him being an unsatisfactory partner and companion. I suspect if you had a better listener/conversationalist you'd be more inclined to chat over dinner. As it is, it sounds like you're coming home from work and being expected to perform.

I think he (or you!) should choose a podcast and both listen to it for 10 mins together while you get to eat, and then as you continue eating (and initial hunger has been satisfied) then you chat about what has been discussed?

I’ve always wanted to do a Podcast Club, as book clubs take too much commitment but I want to chat about what I’ve listened to! You could try and listen to it beforehand and discuss over dinner, but that doesn’t solve your hunger and desire to eat in peace.

Are there any podcasts you enjoy? I love investigative journalism or ones like The Gift which talks about family secrets which have been discovered when DNA tests have been gifted, which isn’t topical news but also isn’t gossip, might be something you both like.

Coming back to this and reading your updates I fear he is a nasty control freak which you fundamentally have little in common with. I think it might be time to stop trying to please him. Eat when you want, talk (or not) when you feel like it and simply stop caring whether it works for him. He clearly couldn't care less about you and your needs.

The more you talk about him, the worse he gets. Your house sounds like what he wants, goes, and you just tiptoe around him. What joy are you getting out of this?