(TW SA) New support thread …

[PinkPoetAgain1]

Another thread full, still learning that things are not normal as I thought they were .

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5522581-tw-sa-new-therapist-new-thread

thank you everyone for being so patient and supportive ❤️

I’m so sorry, Poet. It’s just so cruel of him to do that to you, give you real hope that he would change and then go back to sexually assaulting you in your sleep again.

He really isn’t going to change. But there is support you can access now to get away from him.. ❤️

Sorry I’ve only just noticed that you posted before 5am, so ‘this morning’ is a technicality, this was actually him disrupting your sleep in the middle of the night too. You were then presumably wide awake to post on here.

I just want to point out again that sleep deprivation is not only a tool to a sexual abuser (they rely on the sleepy confusion you might feel) it is abuse in itself. You had a couple of nights of good sleep and now he has destroyed that and showed you can’t rely on getting it again.

As other posters said previously, I’m pretty convinced your night terrors last week came when he did the same thing. Which again shows how callous he is, doing this to you in the middle of the night after witnessing your night terrors just days ago.

What you do is leave.
There really is nothing else you can do.
If you let this go after that enormous discussion, he’s just going to do it again and again. He just doesn’t believe you are serious. Are you?
What did you say/ do when he said he was ‘trying his luck’?
Jump out of bed? Shout? Pack your stuff?

I’m so sorry, devastated for you. I could feel your hope. Make plans to leave safely, you must follow a safety plan as it’s a dangerous time to leave so it just has to be done carefully with support.

I'm sorry he crushed your hopes, but I didn't think he would last long before doing the same thing he's done in every one of these "fresh starts". You know why he does it, it's just because he can and because he has no respect for you.

The choice is as it has always been. Put up with this until he's too old or dead to rape you or take the steps needed to end the marriage.

Remember what I said ages back about it being better that you have some control over the ending, rather than an intervention because one of the kids has told a teacher what he's like, or he's hurt you so badly that you need medical attention or someone else has reported him. Think about that.

Are you angry? Your post seemed exasperated but unclear whether it's directed at yourself or him or both.

I’m optimistic to see you are angry - for the first time, and that’s a big shift in your response.

It’s that anger that will eventually give you the strength to leave.

I’ve re-discovered an Instagram account I came across a while ago that I thought would be helpful but then couldn’t find!

It is coastal.solo.mama

She left an abusive relationship and got her ex convicted, she talks a lot about domestic abuse and it might resonate with you (as well as showing you someone who took those next steps).

I don’t mean that as in ‘this is how you get him convicted’, I mean more to hear from someone else who has been abused talking publicly about it and talking about the complexity of abusive relationships.

Her post from 16 March ‘What an unsafe man looks like’. I think it will sound very familiar.

Your message early this morning is full of the same incredulity that my colleague's best friend experienced when everything came out - why did he have to ruin everything, they could have had such a wonderful life together, he had it all (amazing wife, incredible kids, beautiful home etc etc.), why did he throw it all away.

It is very, very difficult to accept and understand that these men do not want a lovely family life. They do not value the things that we value (like watching the children enjoying playing in the sunshine).

They want only to control and dominate the people around them, because that is what makes them feel good. We feel good when we see our family and friends happy. Your husband has literally told you that he feels aroused when you are distressed. They are not like us.

He will not change. He likely cannot change, this is literally who he is. He certainly has no desire to change, even though he understands effects of his behaviour on you, how it hurts you and traumatises you. I am not sure if he believes you are a real person. I think he thinks you are an object that he can use and abuse however he wants.

He will do whatever he thinks is necessary to keep you compliant - cry, apologise, beg, sob, hold you down, shout, throw things, sulk, be utterly charming when you are doing what he wants you to do, promise to make changes. It's all an act. Its goal is to make you do what he wants you to do and if you don't do that via psychological pressures he will and does escalate to using physical force. The problem is NOT and has never been that he doesn't understand. He understands perfectly.

What was the new start supposed to look like OP?

What promises did he make - did he promise not to touch you when you are sleeping?

SaltyCara is very clear and concise about these men's personality. It is absolutely who they are, and it is said here so very clearly. They cannot change their personality, just as you cannot change yours, but yours is squashed and hidden by him.

He put you i to a false sense of security as you’ve said you’ve started sleeping well then he sexually assaulted you. He couldn’t keep the act up for a week could he? Angry for you!

He didn't, did he?

It's just words, Poet. It's all just words.

You can stay, but in staying recognise that you will continue to be sexually assaulted and on this 3-5 day abuse cycle, where for 1-2 of those days you feel the highs of being happy. The other days will be the absolute lows you have felt and the assaults, assuming nothing worse develops. That will be your life. I'm sure your family would want more for you than that, don't you?

Im really sorry OP. Furious for you too, but really sorry. Please don't feel ashamed for your earlier optimism, its all part of the cycle to make you feel happy/safe before the abuse starts again.

Just to reiterate, what he's doing isn't "trying his luck". Its taking advantage of you while you cannot consent, and hoping to bombard you with so many approaches about sex that you are worn down and let him do whatever he wants.

I hope you keep your anger, and remember that you said before if he did this again you thought you'd be done. I know its not as easy as that though, so please engage with your therapist and womens aid to help you process your thoughts given his latest actions.

I'm sure you don't want everyone here to say we told you so OP.

That, after all, is why you are keeping this all a secret from your parents.

But you can't fool yourself forever.

You can't just decide to be happy when you are constantly under attack.

You will crack.

My love, what you do is leave. A scary, take-your-breath-away thought, but if you really want peace and safety that's what you need to do. You don't need to pack a bag and flee into the night as many have had to do, unless that is what you feel you need to do. If not, then what you need to do is work with WA and other agencies to make a plan to either get you and DC out quietly and safely or to get him out if possible. And also speak to them about the possibility of involving the police. I'm not saying you have to! I'm just saying that if it might result in resources for you to leave OR that it will force him to leave, then it is something to be considered.

And you need to tell someone. Someone you trust and who loves you. Yes, it may cause them pain to know what you've been through but it will cause them more pain if they learn you felt you couldn't confide in them.

Please don't be ashamed of wanting to believe. None of us actually want to end a relationship at first, and we all go through the process of learning to DISbelieve everything they say and DIStrust everything they do. I think you may have arrived at that point, at least I hope you have. Please let yourself believe in what you now know to be true. I won't use the 'R' word, since I think that makes you 'shut down' and go into denial mode. I will say that now you know that he is not a good man, an honest man, a respectful man. And you deserve someone who is.

I m so sorry.
You really believed only yesterday that it was a fresh start
All your enthusiasm and hope for the future has tumbled down around about you.You ll be feeling a sense of hopelessness today no doubt, in a bit of a daze too .Physically tired and emotionally drained and a bit lost??.
I think you need a plan put in place( in your head at the very least ), about what your going to do.
Some very good people on MN have been through it and can give you practical advice if you want to reach out on here???
But I do believe it s time to confide in a close friend or your Mum.It must be very difficult emotionally, the strain of it all..This thread and all your MN supporters are behind you 100 percent. I know you ve been more open with your therapist recently.However I do think if you had someone close to confide in ,giving you support on a 1 to 1 ,it would help you make some decisions. and practical help in making a plan.
Again I m so sorry this has happened this am and I m sending you a virtual hug.💕

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Just a thought on telling other people OP. If your husband really thinks this is normal in a loving relationship, he'd have no issue with you talking about this with a family member or friends you trust?

That you are reluctant to share in real life makes me think you both know that he's full of shit, but that in the moment he thinks he's talking you round.

Bloody hell, these highs and lows must be exhausting to live with.

You obviously need to take some time to absorb what's just happened to you because although it was blindingly obvious from the outside that this was going to happen, it's obviously come as a big shock to you.

Take all the time you need, speak with your therapist and let's see what happens with the bank account this week. Has he made the appointment?

If you can get any information about financials that will help you going forward.

If he continues to deny you access to finances then that's just another broken promise and another form of abuse confirmed.

Also I just wanted to say Poet, it's a lot easier to see what's going on when it's someone else's relationship. So it's easy for us because we're not in the thick of it. Don't feel bad for believing.

I had lunch with a friend on Saturday who had been in a very abusive marriage. Coercive control, financial abuse, physical abuse too. She left him over 10 years ago and she and her kids have been thriving ever since.

I am so sorry you are back here. To help you cut through his excuses ( eg “trying his luck” etc) here are the objective and clinical facts under UK Law (Sexual Offences Act 2003) regarding the actions you have described:

1.Under UK law, marriage does not grant implied consent. The concept of 'marital rape' was entirely criminalised in the UK in 1991. Legally, being married to someone gives them absolutely zero rights to your body.

2. Waking Up to Sexual Contact / Touching While Asleep
The Law: Under Section 3 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 (Sexual Assault), a person commits an offence if they intentionally touch another person sexually without consent.
A person who is asleep cannot legally give consent. Furthermore, if you have previously stated you are on a 'break' or have said 'no', there is no reasonable belief in consent. Waking up to him touching you intimately is, by definition, Sexual Assault.

3. Penetration Without Consent (Digital)
The Law: Under Section 2 of the Act (Assault by Penetration), it is a severe criminal offence if a person intentionally penetrates the vagina or anus of another person with a part of their body (like fingers) or an object, sexually, without consent.
Digital penetration without your explicit, active consent is not 'trying his luck.' It is Assault by Penetration, which carries the same maximum sentencing guidelines as rape.

4. Masturbating and Ejaculating on You Without Consent
The Law: Under Section 3 (Sexual Assault), touching includes causing another person to be touched by any part of the body or anything else. Ejaculating on someone without their consent is a serious form of sexual assault.
This is a prosecutable sexual offense.

5. Previous Actions (Rape During Pregnancy)
The Law: Under Section 1 (Rape), penile penetration without consent is rape.The Fact: There is no statute of limitations on sexual offenses in the UK. Historical crimes—including rape during pregnancy—are fully prosecutable if there is evidence or credible testimony.
His excuse that this is 'fine in a loving relationship' has zero standing in a court of law. His actions are illegal, they are sexual offenses, and they are fully prosecutable.

Here are some next steps that you really need to consider now:

Engage Specialist Legal Support: Suggest contacting Rights of Women(rightsofwomen.org.uk), a UK charity providing free confidential legal advice to women surviving sexual violence and domestic abuse. They can explain your options regarding non-molestation orders (injunctions).

Contact SARSAS or Rape Crisis: While your therapist is a good start, you need a specialist independent sexual violence advisor. They can help you navigate the police/legal system safely without pressuring you to make any decisions before you are ready.

A last chance has to be a last chance. If you don't follow through with your words, he will keep walking over you because he knows he doesn't need to take your words seriously. Unfortunately, this may mean that no will stop meaning no again.

It's to be expected that a period of "good behaviour" will have felt all the better after all that's happened, that's what makes traumabonds and intermittent reinforcement so hard to break out of. It feels blissful and good to be hopeful.

I put good behaviour in quotation marks because your expectations are very low. From that viewpoint, your comment prior to him doing it again is a bit concerning because while you say he's a 50/50 parent you also say he's been more patient with them. But no gift, no help with the kids, nothing offsets the harm that he is doing to you by assaulting you despite knowing (!) you don't want it, you are afraid of it, you are traumatized by it. Nothing.

I am so sorry the time when you could sleep in peace and felt hopeful didn't last. You want to believe in the good parts in him that you fell in love with rather than start to accept the relationship is not safe - and it is not for your children, either. Your children need a mother who feels safe herself. The truth is you have everything in yourself to be happy and a wonderful mother without him, and it may even be that it's only possible without him.

Hello Poet, DiggerLilly has laid out in legal terminology what he has done. Everything that has been done to you is covered in law and is illegal in Marriage.

What would you do if one of your children came to you with these allegations? Would you tell them they had to endure this treatment knowing, under the Law, that it would carry severe penalties?

It is not in anyway Love and it has all been done without your consent.

My heart goes out to you.

Regardless of what you decide to do in the long term you need to sleep separately. He’s not going to stop.