(TW SA) New support thread …

[PinkPoetAgain1]

Another thread full, still learning that things are not normal as I thought they were .

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5522581-tw-sa-new-therapist-new-thread

thank you everyone for being so patient and supportive ❤️

You said if he did this again, in your last post, that you would not accept it. You said if he’s inappropriate again, I am done.
I thought you wouldn’t post again because he was starting to respect your decisions.
He has lasted days, and now he’s assaulting you again.
You know what to do, you know this is assault, but only you can contemplate what is needed here.
He does not respect you. His desire to dominate you outweighs everything.
I am so sorry.
The ‘happiness’ you have felt is actually possible, but not with him.

"What do I do?".

You have two options:

• accept that your husband will continue to assault you as/when he wants. For ever.

• or leave him.

He continues to let you down because he "thinks it's fine in a loving relationship to try his luck like that".

Despite you telling him REPEATEDLY that you do not want him to grope you.

Despite seeing you in the grip of a night terror due to his previous sexual abuse.

Despite you needing therapy to deal with his previous abuse of you.

He does not care what you want, Poet.

The wonderful life you had a glimpse of yesterday will never be a reality with him.

Please don't feel shame for your optimism. The shame in this situation is all his.

I'm so sorry.

I am so sorry.

What do you do now?

You go to the Police to report his sexual assaults, rapes and coercive control.

You get him out of the house with police aid.

You used all the support and help you have been offered.

You separate from him, and then divorce him.

Absolutely this. All of it. I'm so sorry, Poet. It's horrible that you keep hoping and he keeps letting you down, and it's not your fault, but he doesn't want to change, and he has no reason to - certainly not as long as you stay. At some point you have to break the cycle. As the saying goes, 'Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.'

This might be an unhelpful idea (perhaps pp will have input) but you might find it easier to leave him initially if you re-frame it in your head as a six month separation to set yourself up in your own house and become established independently, do the Freedom Programme etc, while he does the work he clearly needs to do on himself, with the only contact being regarding the children.

That leaves the door open for a truly fresh start, if you still both wanted one - you could 'date' for another six months and see, with the perspective of having had distance from the relationship and worked on your boundaries, whether or not he truly does seem to have changed.

@OtterlyAstounding sadly this man will never change. Even if he commits to therapy, very few men who exhibit these behaviours change. It is a proven fact.
I feel so sad for OP.
He keeps changing the goal posts around finances so it will be tough for Poet to just set up a home elsewhere. She pays all of her wages in to their joint account and he monitors what she spends.
It is hard to leave a man like this but it can be done. It requires a lot of support.

Oh Poet, I’m so sorry. What he’s done here is so cruel in so many ways because he’s given you false hope by telling you he really understands and that he won’t touch you without consent and then a day later, has touched you without even trying to get consent.
That is abuse.
It shows you now though, that this isn’t a mistake, or lack of understanding - he knows what consent is and disregards it. His actions are deliberate. He doesn’t see any need for him to get your consent.

As PP have said - he won’t change and your options are to stay knowing that for the rest of your life he will abuse you. Or leave and put an end to this.

Please contact WA and ask for support in leaving with your DCs. This doesn’t have to be the rest of your life - it can be so much better.

I’m so sorry Poet. Unfortunately we all saw this coming. What you need to do now is leave sweetheart. Reporting him to the police would be another thing to consider but you don’t have to do that straight away.

This assault is particularly cruel because he sold you a dream, made you feel so optimistic and crushed it all by sexually assaulting you again just days later. He’s actually doing this to you because he doesn’t like you Poet, I’m so sorry.

You need to leave now sweetheart. It’s time.

Oh yes, I agree, I don’t think he’ll change – I think he’s a very deliberate abuser.

What should you do now? Try your best to accept that you will never know why and you will never get him to truly admit that what he's doing is wrong. You don't need either of those things in order to leave him, however much it might feel like you do. YOU know that it's wrong and you know that you don't deserve this, that's all you need.

The help is there for you, it just needs a little bravery to reach out for it. I know I'm not alone here in having faith that you can do it, we're all with you.

He has showed you (yet again) what type of man he is.

He has receipts of all the facts now, you have explained them to him, he has seen them with his own eyes. Yet he has still abused you in your sleep. There is literally no excuse.

Please do not believe him again.

Rereading your post from last night makes me feel so sad. He can’t even pretend for a whole long weekend. THIS is who he is, not the facade you had yesterday. It’s just the cycle. He pulls you in with niceness and you feel the relief, then BOOM. The cycle is exceptionally short in this situation it feels to me. This is how trauma bonds are formed, but you are now wiser to it. What you do now is plan. Get on the accounts, see the true financial situation, do the Freedom Programme and contact WA, and work out how to eventually get away from this utter bastard

I’m sorry Poet, that your bubble was burst so quickly, I thought he might be able to keep the behaviour longer than he has which is quite worrying in itself. What were/are your plans for today?

Could you take the kids off to your parents for the day? Maybe it’s time to build up the courage and speak to your mum x

Where is he now? Did he remove himself to the sofa? Or you did? Can you ask him to go and stay somewhere else for a few days to give you some space to think? Start getting your ducks in a row as they say. Call your parents and tell them some edited version, marriage troubles or whatever. Start gathering essential paperwork, passports, medications, birth certificates, mortgage info.
Call Women's Aid and tell them he is escalating and you need help to leave.

I’m sorry. When is your next therapy session? It would be good to discuss the whole conversation and ‘progress’ you had with him, your feelings following that, through to now.

You have been so clear more than once that you do not want sexual contact initiated while you sleep. No one does, they want to sleep if they are asleep and that’s sexual assault. How does this action - and his justification of it - square with the talk you had where he promised to be better and that he finally ‘got’ it.

What do you do? Well the short version is seek the help you need to leave him and do that. Like you said you would have to.

Here’s the thing, I don’t think you want to be in this situation 30 years from now, and I don’t think you will be. He’s not going to have the same charm as a 50/60/70 something year-old rapist. You will go through menopause and may feel physical pain each time for the things you have been tolerating. He’s not going to have the same pull when your children have left home, and probably not in the years leading up to that either when in their journey to adulthood they also get to know him better (butting heads along the way).

Concentrate now on how you are feeling. Is it anger now?

Ah sweetheart, I’m sorry.

He did exactly as much as was needed to get you to relax your guard.

He thinks it’s ok to try his luck ‘in a loving relationship’.
He isn’t in a loving relationship, because he’d be listening to you if he was.

He’s running an abusive relationship.

I'm sorry it happened PP. It's who he is. I'm so glad you're not on your own with this. It takes a lot to come back and update after everything you said only hours ago, but I'm so glad you're not on your own now. Can you see who he is yet?

My friend’s mum went through this and the kids worked it out. When they left home they had no contact with their father.
She used to go and stay with my friend, who implored her to leave and move in with her.
Even at 80, he would follow her to check she wasn’t sleeping with the bus driver, or a man in Sainsbury’s.
It only ended when he died and she’s still a shell. 65 years of her life, since 18, and he never stopped.
She was the loveliest lady, such a kind mum, but her children couldn’t wait to get out.

This wasn’t even 24 hours ago. He is escalating in his cruelness towards you Poet.

In this post you said if he is inappropriate again you are done. He has sexually assaulted you in your sleep after spending a couple of days making you feel on cloud 9. This is a particularly cruel assault that he has planned out.

I’m so sorry PP, what he’s done is so cruel by vicious false hope, I’m afraid this is who he is, he will not change. Can you you and the children spend the day at your parents? To give you some space. If you don’t feel like you can contact the police could you contact women’s aid tomorrow if he is back in work? Also please speak about this to the counsellor next time you have a session. Sending hugs xxx

Im so sorry Poet.

It feels as if you are finding your anger, or even just exasperation before the anger hits

I think you are finally seeing that his word cannot be trusted.

Dont feel angry with yourself for believing him - he is well trained in giving a good show, and he has had years of practice in working out exactly what to say to you to give you false hope - and of course you had hope, there is nothing you wanted more than a loving and respectful relationship - who wouldnt - but this is not it. When hope dies, you are done.

I am honestly surprised that he made his move so quickly, I was sure he was going to lay it on thick for at least a week or two, to fully enmesh you again. I am concerned that he didnt manage that and already assaulted you when you would still be in a state of alertness, despite your claims that you had chosen to be happy. He is either very stupid or exceedingly dangerous. You will not have forgotten that this is supposed to be a fresh start, wiping the slate clean, and he has just shown what that looks like to him - access to your body whenever he wants under the guise of 'trying his luck'.

'Trying his luck', in the normal sense, means using your words and actions in a neutral situation to see if you are receptive. Trying your luck when you are asleep is NOT possibly consensual, because you are asleep. My suspicion is that to him, it means trying to see if he can get away with assaulting, or raping you, without you waking up. I think this is one of his things. I think he likely does it alot.

I think that given the current political landscape and several high profile cases, that you could report this and take the hard decisions about leaving out of your own hands. I dont think you will but I wish you would.

One call and its over.

He would be removed, he would not be able to contact you or come near you, and you would be able to get the strongest people in the land to help you get control of your own finances, etc. And have your head clear of his presence, which is the most liberating thing that you cannot even yet imagine.

Sometimes, when you really cant do it yourself, or when the man just simply doesnt listen to what you ask (I cant see him agreeing to stay elsewhere) you need to take the opportunities that are given you and make the most of a really bad situation. I wouldnt want what has happened to you to happen to anyone, but my god, with all his text apologies, your therapy, WA and your current financial set up, he has given you enough ammunition to have the book thrown at him, if you want a quick resolution.

Imagine half term without him there. Without him restricting the children's enjoyment, without him pestering you and fucking up your mind. WA say he is high risk. Your therapist says he is too dangerous to speak to about the finances. He is NEVER going to stop sexually assaulting you or allow you access to the finances, your children are going to spend their lives creeping around him, making themselves small to avoid his outbursts until they can leave, or start to abuse you themselves - everything he promised was a lie.

Just call them. Get it finished in the safest way before he has any suspicion and becomes a risk to you.

I woke up to sexual contact AGAIN this morning. I woke up and he was down there. Touching me. Why does he continue to let me down. I feel ashamed for my optimism and so tired of it.

He continues to "let you down" (for which read: sexually assault you) because he is a rapist. It really really really is that simple. There isn't another answer. He is an abuser who does not care about, respect, like or love you. He thinks you exist for him to use as he wishes. That's IT.

His excuse is that it’s ok ‘in a loving relationship it’s fine to try his luck like that’

He doesn't think he's "let you down", does he!? He thinks it's "fine"!!!

fucks sake
what do I do

You accept that this is NEVER going to change. You felt previously that now that he "understood" the impact of the repeated sexual assaults that he would stop. He has not stopped. He will never stop. He is a rapist. It's not that he doesn't know it's wrong. It's not that he doesn't realise it hurts you. It's not that he doesn't understand you don't want it. It's that he wants to rape you and he doesn't give a flying fuck about you so he's going to keep raping you until you leave him.

I'm so, so sorry Poet. You absolutely don't deserve this. It's not you, it's him. There's nothing you can do. You've got to leave.

Dear Poet so much disappointment for you after what he promised. My heart goes out to you. Hopefully your anger will appear very soon and you will find the strength to leave and start a new life.

What do you do?

You said this less than 24 hours ago "IF he starts to be inappropriate again then I think I am done."

You know what to do for you and your children x

Yesterday, OP was talking about how much she was looking forward to the half-term WITH her husband. She said she loves him and he enhances her life in so many ways. She said:

• Things have been really, really good.
• Hes finally heard me.
• He is taking intimacy at my pace.
• I feel like something clicked on Friday.
• I feel like my brain has just made a decision to be happy.
• Yes he’s made some bad mistakes but there are so many pros to the relationships.
• he is loving, generous and supportive.
• I don’t feel anxious or panic anymore.
• i feel so lucky to have my life and a big part of that is him.
• it feels different somehow.

And now, less than 24 hours later, he’s sexually assaulted you again. This is just so cruel.

Your post actually read to me as being very dissociative yesterday Poet but I felt it was unhelpful to say that in your current frame of mind. As I’m sure you know as you’ve experienced it, you cannot just make a decision to stop being traumatised. It requires extensive work in therapy, away from the abuser. It seemed to me that actually what you had done mentally was dissociate from the horrific things your husband has done as if they happened to another person and instead live in a sort of fantasy world where your husband had just done a few bad things and it was the normal ‘downs’ of a marriage like your friend said. Of course I think you know, deep down, that rape and sexual assault are absolutely not what your friend was referring to.

I thought he would probably punish you for these extended days of asserting yourself more. I hoped it wouldn’t happen but as I’ve said before past behaviour is the biggest predictor of future behaviour. And abusers do not make any progress in being less abusive whilst they remain in the relationship. They usually don’t anyway but it’s even less likely when remaining in the same relationship.

Has what happened affected your feelings for him that you expressed yesterday? I can feel your frustration that he’s shattered the illusion again but has this translated into any other feelings about him?

This must all be so confusing for you.

I agree PP, I wasn’t strong enough to physically leave, partly because of guilt of how he would cope. Fortunately all it took was an online police report and the police handled everything so quickly. I will never forget the feeling of freedom. If you can gather enough strength for one last push to keep yourself and your children safe x