(TW SA) New support thread …

[PinkPoetAgain1]

Another thread full, still learning that things are not normal as I thought they were .

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5522581-tw-sa-new-therapist-new-thread

thank you everyone for being so patient and supportive ❤️

Thanks . I will do this
could that be done? Don’t you have to show ID or something ?

He said it was a joint credit card but maybe he just got cards for us both . I dont have one though

What is coerced debt? - Surviving Economic Abuse https://share.google/8C1a5eckshGwDHp7m

You don't need id for Experian but make sure you only sign up for the one months free membership otherwise they will do a direct debit for x amount every months so you need to make sure you cancel before the month is up.

Clear score is free but I don't know how much info it gives, it may be enough ?
maybe others can advise on Clearscore ?

A joint one isn’t possible as a pp said, so it would be in one person’s name (and sole responsibility for debt) with an additional card holder on the account. I’m sceptical why he would add you as a card holder if he didn’t intend to give you a card, it sounds more likely he did it the other way around to me, putting debt in your name but making it so he had sole access to using it.

He would have committed fraud for this and yes it’s possible with all the right info and declarations you don’t need to go in person usually.

So sad reading Poets latest updates. I can really feel the desperate hope in her posts. Sadly we all know and can predict what will happen, but Poet needs to see it for herself.

If he did that it also begs the question why. Is his credit rating terrible, and why? Are there other debts not declared to you? Has he possibly shared the least of the debt with you? He sounds like a good enough earner and you both have money coming in, I wouldn’t stress over 5k on a card in that situation (so if stress over debt is real I’m betting there’s more to it?)

There could be a whole web of deceit around the finances, Poet just doesn't know. Maybe he isn't a good earner and their lifestyle is all debt. Could be anything at all.

No this isn’t the case . I’ve seen his payslips when we applied for a mortgage a couple years back to do the reno , and he didn’t have any debt then as we wouldn’t have got approved.

So is the mortgage in joint names?

I'll focus on the positive first - I think it's really fantastic that you're becoming more confident and assertive, Poet. You really have managed so much growth in such a short time, and you should be proud of that.

I remember saying on a past thread that you should be very vocal with your 'no' when he tried to force sex on you, and that seemed impossible to you at the time - and now here you are, doing it!

It takes a lot to break free from the cycle of abuse, but you seem to be growing stronger every cycle, so as long as you hold onto, build, and strengthen the boundaries you're forming now, then you're making great gains. Just don't become complacent, and let your boundaries slip!

I find myself deeply cynical that this will last on his part - from what you've said of his beliefs and behaviour, it seems more likely that this is a ploy. Even on the tiny off-chance it is a true change, him wanting to be different doesn't heal years of sexual, emotional, and financial abuse. It will take years for both you, and your relationship to heal, even if he truly is a perfect angel from this moment on.

I would be interested to know if you feel you could talk to him about something like the book 'The Game', and ask him how he thinks his exposure to that affected his behaviour in your relationship, or ask him why he didn't use condoms early in your relationship, or why he, as a man in his thirties, was so interested in a vulnerable teenage girl? Just things to ponder, whether you ask him them or not - and if you feel you couldn't, why not?

If he's truly eager to change, then he needs to be willing to be raked over the coals, interrogated, and held to account. Him being willing to truly humble himself is the only way he could even begin to try to make amends.

Yes and the house deeds. 100% I’ve seen it all

It’s heart breaking that you cannot see your way through the woods for the trees OP.

Unfortunately we all know what is going to happen next and that there will be an excuse for it when it does.

I wish someone or something could get through to you, but it’s looking impossible at the moment.

You do realise your bar for 'good' is on the floor, right?

Hi Poet, the tactic I’d use here is to push for as much as you can get while he’s in nice mode. I’m not sure why there’s a delay in adding you to the bank accounts. You can do that through online banking with Santander, NatWest, Lloyds. If you let us know which bank then we can check how it’s done.

To get a joint credit card there needs to be one applicant (who owns the debt), it’s can’t be in joint names but you can get a second card holder. Has he taken credit with the bank that you run the joint account from (“your” account)?

Yes, credit card debt isn't joint. People who think they have a joint credit card are actually either the main credit card holder with a partner who is an aditional card holder or they themselves are the additional card holder. The main holder is 100% liable for the debt, the additional holder doesn't bear any responsibility.

Agree re doing a credit check.

Presumably he's given you the credit card statements so you can see whether you are main account holder or additional?

Also worth checking whether you are recepient of child benefit as previously mentioned.

I get that Poet is charting changes.
However, just a few weeks ago she was not able to have a clear thought and had no idea that she has been abused.
She has a much clearer picture now and needs to keep posting.
However, a man who rapes his wife from behind, whilst pregnant, metres away from where her parents are sleeping, is about as close to a sadist as I can think. That is not just thinking with his dick, it’s absolutely cruel and calculating beyond measure.

You clearly know absolutely NOTHING about cycles of abuse and the mind frame of those in abusive dynamics. Ridiculous post poet ignore

But poet, he does hurt you, and he intentionally hurts you.

read through your posts and see.

when you tell him to stop, he doesn’t.

he enjoys raping you, he gets a kick out of it. You crying, being resistant and submissive. It’s a whole bloody porn genre.

he does intentionally hurt you as this is what turns him on. This is sadism.

Clearscore is free and good, I use it. It gives enough detail to see any debt in your name so definitely a good one to use without having to pay anything.

I would highly recommend opening a clear score account just so you have a full understanding of any debt in your name, its getting harder to get credit in someone else's name but in the past it was 100% possible as my Husband asked me to open him a credit card and I did it with zero involvement from him, recently they ask for more face verification but its very much possible that cards could have been opened in your name without your knowledge.

If you are at all concerned about him knowing you could say you saw online about someone finding out about credit card fraud in their name only by checking their credit file so wanted to be sure. Because with clear score you get alerts to any changes in your credit report, honestly I think everyone should have an account.

The good (right now) looks like I would imagine a normal relationship would? Nice chats, making each other laugh, cuddling on the sofa, making me a coffee, talking about our days , occasionally taking me out or getting a take away. It’s lovely

Yes, that is what a normal relationship looks like. Why isn't he like this with you all the time?

DH makes me a coffee every single day. We laugh every single day. We talk about everything and anything and are totally relaxed around each other all the time.

If you imagine that every day, but also with access to your own funds, separate to him, and access to all the family finances so that you know what's going on and never, ever scared to ask him about something or get into bed with him, then that's a normal relationship.

If he's not doing it all the time and can only keep up the charade for a week or so then you know he's having to force himself to be nice to you.

Let's see what the action is regarding the finances, rather than just the words because it does sound like he's taken credit in your name, not his, so it's not joint debt, it's your debt. That's fraud. And lying to you.

I’ve started being much more assertive and vocal in saying ‘no- get off’ during unwanted sexual contact which I believe has given him pause for thought at least.

Well done, that's fantastic. When did you start doing this?

I take it he's not sleeping on the sofa after all as, according to your pattern, you will be consenting to sex with him after the big talk. Another reason why he's being 'nice' at the moment.

I appreciate you think he's changing and this 'nice' phase will last but really, it's the same pattern as it's always been isn't it so nothing material has actually changed yet.

I’m going to go against the grain here and say that I DO have a tiny inkling of hope that he can change - the thing is up until now Poet has let him do whatever he wants, has never pushed back on anything, and any largely selfish person would take advantage of that. Now she is pushing back, and so far we have not seen an escalation, but instead a recognition that she’s not going to put up with this shit anymore, and he is backing off of certain things. I’m not saying at all that it will be plain sailing and that he won’t revert to abhorrent behaviours in the future, because he is not used to this new Poet, and he’s still inherently selfish and abusive and has over a decade of behaving however he wants with no repercussions. But…I do think Poet might see some improvements now she is finally stand on up to him.

What you're doing now is making a world of difference, you have no idea yet how much, the long-term effects will be significant. You'll find out whether or not he'll keep up the act (if it's an act) and you'll be in a much better position to act accordingly.

If he's shaken by his own behaviour because (for lack of a better word) of deep-seated mental problems, he should talk to a professional about boundaries and communication.

Someone else has asked about what the good times look like, I suggested a list of the pros and cons - maybe just in case he stops making an effort it might be worth revisiting? As a way to take stock. I think the financial part is easier emotionally, but it's also the beginning of getting your ducks in a row.

You believe your new assertiveness has given him pause - what does this mean? Does he accept no is a complete sentence every time? Does he still take care of himself next to you when you refuse or go on the sofa? What does his dealing with your assertiveness look like exactly? You should not answer if you'd rather not of course.

up until now Poet has let him do whatever he wants, has never pushed back on anything, and any largely selfish person would take advantage of that.

Not true. The first time OP asked for a sex break, he raped her that night. The second time she asked for a sex break, he pinned her down, physically forced her legs apart and sexually assaulted her.

None of this is down to OP. She cannot say no when she knows he will assault her for it so she says yes.

He has actually told her that no means yes.

This is totally on him.

Now she is pushing back, and so far we have not seen an escalation, but instead a recognition that she’s not going to put up with this shit anymore, and he is backing off of certain things.

So far? You're talking about two days. He has not changed. So far, he is in his usual pattern that we have seen unfold on this thread just in the last 3 months.

OP needs to see some actual change. Nothing he is doing so far is change, it's what he's always done.

He been appalled, aghast, horrified at what he's done to her. Cried, promised to change, promised never to do it again. Love bombed her, bought her gifts, taken her out. He's done it all, every single time. It's a pattern. It has not changed and it's vanishingly unlikely to ever change as long as they remain together.