(TW SA) New support thread …

[PinkPoetAgain1]

Another thread full, still learning that things are not normal as I thought they were .

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5522581-tw-sa-new-therapist-new-thread

thank you everyone for being so patient and supportive ❤️

It’s really sad reading this Poet, you’ve made so many steps forward but you still seem to be looking for any reason to stay. At your children’s expense and at the expense of your own health.

The night terrors and the anxiety are your brains way of processing how unsafe you are and the toll this has all taken on you. You won’t let yourself process this when you’re awake, you tell yourself over and over that your husband is a good man (Do good men rape their wives?) and a good father (do good dads control the home and their children’s mother with their moods?). So your body has no choice but to process this as you sleep.

I don’t think there is anything this man can do to convince you otherwise Poet. You don’t want to believe it and you are convinced you have this great love with him even though the highs and the thrill is all part of his cycle of abuse. And the reality is, unless you make the choice, nothing we can say will convince you either. And that’s how it should be really because this has to be your choice either way.

Please keep talking though, I think it’s helped you a lot just to listen to different views even if you don’t agree.

None of us want the worst for you. If we really felt our husband had just suddenly and spontaneously changed we would support that but past behaviour is a predictor of future behaviour and your husband has shown his true colours over and over again.

The saddest part of everything you wrote Poet was the idea that your night terror may have shown your husband the impact his behaviour has had. Was seeing you silently sob while he raped you whilst heavily pregnant not convincing enough?

You are worth so much more Poet.

These nightmares are a long-term effect of being repeatedly assaulted, they don't start immediately because our minds sometimes take years to start to process what happened.

That he showed concern does not make your feelings and perceptions void. Concern for one's partner in a loving relationship is the bare minimum, it is not praiseworthy - but he is also the cause of these nightmares.

Tangentially, while you may feel he is not a monster (many with lived or work experience may agree, others may call men that for their justifying rape), your trauma response has clocked him as a "monster" of sorts - a threat - because he is.

Due to his behaviour he is a threat to your wellbeing more than his comforting you after waking from a night terror is helping you.

You have said his behaviour has changed in good and bad ways, presumably to adapt to your "awakening". His challenging you whenever you try to put up boundaries. That's why your therapist probably thinks talking about the finances is a bad idea.

In theory Babyboomtastic it can work - it worked on my father and effectively ended his attacking his wife because he felt she could ruin his life going to the police. She documented all the bruises and cuts, started writing which helped immensely. She's still with him and hides her journals just in case. In OP's case I think the risk to her life is just too high, and there is no knowing what he might do.

You must not feel like you have to justify staying OP but NettleTea is absolutely right, do not overwhelm him with your progress, he might become unpredictable. I woukd probably not share anything about therapy. You're used to pleasing him and walking on eggshells for I fear very good reason, the downside is you simply do not know what he's capable of.

He does not want to start again, he wants you to start again and reset your brain so that he can keep doing what he wants because it works for him. You keep on working on getting a life that is working for you.

he was there hugging me (gently) and telling me it’s ok and I did feel like he was looking after me in that moment

You are describing exactly a trauma bond - he abuses you, then he is affectionate towards you. The very reason you need "looking after" is him!!! This is the cycle of abuse: fear, harm and affection. Round and round and round.

A question for you (possibly just for you to ponder yourself, though I would be interested in your answer if you'd like to share - of course, no pressure): what do you (currently) think you will do if he rapes you again?

What I mean is, at the moment you are willing to forgive and forget because you believe that he finally "gets it" (quite why your sobbing whilst being raped wasn't enough is a different question...) and will therefore stop raping you, because you desperately want to believe that he has only raped you multiple times previously because he didn't understand how much it "upset" you (despite your repeated, extremely clear communication that you want him to stop).

You may be right! He may never do it again. However, if he does do it again, thereby disproving your hope and demonstrating that he will continue to place his want to rape you over your need not to be raped, what do you think you will do?

Interesting that he immediately knew his actions were the cause of your night terrors, isn't it? Rather than say, a heavy meal or too much cheese.

He knows what he is doing harms you and i agree with NettleTea that he very likely started attacking you again last night which caused your reaction.

I wonder what you were shouting/screaming in your sleep. And I wonder how the kids feel about it. I know you try to keep quiet when he rapes you while you are awake, but your subconscious won't be silenced.

I watched a programme about DV on BBC3 Disclosure series. One of the trained counsellors said that some women don't leave because they simply can't. They have no money, nowhere to go and no support. So they stay.

One woman had a lot of the assaults against her recorded on her phone, home security camera and pet watch camera. So she had evidence of his assaults on her but she stayed with him for years, and only left when he threatened to kill her, actually strangled her (it's recorded on camera) and she couldn't breathe. That's what it took.

So they can leave, there just has to be a point where staying is worse than the thought of leaving.

I would recommend the programme (for interested posters, not OP - I don't think you should witness more violence) but it's traumatic viewing so needs a trigger warning.

After he strangled her and she was gasping for breath, he tried to comfort her, saying she was just having a panic attack and telling her to breathe.

She just couldn't get air into her lungs and he was trying to hug her. Familiar story isn't it. The assailant comforting their victim.

Thankfully Poet has a supportive family, with room to house her and the kids at least temporarily. She has a job and her own income. They are married so she will get good share of the marital assets and they seem to have a good standard of living, notwithstanding the lack of financial info and potential credit card debts. They have a house. She has good friends for emotional support (not his shitty banter couple friends), she has a degree, she is strong and clever and resilient. And she has her 4 wonderful children and they will all thrive once out of this toxic environment. Oh, and she has us. MN is a very powerful force for women's freedom. I left my own bastard with support from women on this board and have helped several others - including meeting up in person. Women from MN helped loading the moving van in some cases.

It will be a very tough time but she has a lot going for her and will get through this and out the other side.

Poet could have an amazing future without him. She's got a degree, a supportive family, and because she had her kids so early, she's got time to have a great career if she wants. She has the legal protection of marriage, which puts her in a stronger position, and it sounds like the husband is a decent earner - enough for reasonable maintenance at least.

Yes it would be incredibly hard, but she's in a very strong position if they were to split.

Poet I posted on your other thread about how I used to be in a marriage like this. My ex husband was very similar to yours, down to the exact same
phrases and doing disgusting things like wanking on me as I slept.

The “night terrors” is very familiar to me, I think it’s very likely he was molesting you.

This marriage is dead Poet and I think you know that deep down. I stayed for far too long and in hindsight it was because I knew that when I left I would have to face what he had done.

Poet, we know we can’t reach you when you’re in the stage of the cycle where he is promising the world and you’re desperate to believe him, but we’ll be here when you’re on the other side.

I know that sounds almost threatening. We certainly aren’t hoping there will be more abuse. We’d all be so, so happy, if he never abused you again. But that’s just not realistic. We can see, even if you can’t, that it might be a day, a week, hell he might even manage a month, but he will abuse you again. And again and again.

We’ll be here.

If this man spoke to a therapist and described raping his wife for over a decade, repeatedly, then the therapist would be duty bound to report him as it’s a criminal act and putting OP in danger.
So if he did see a therapist, he would lie.
There is a huge difference between a sex addict and a rapist. If he were a sex addict he would be seeking it everywhere - affair partners, escorts, sex workers.
But rape is about power, control and manipulation.
Fresh start? Just words, I’m afraid.
What this man did to OP, raping her from
behind in her parents house, whilst pregnant, is the most twisted thing I’ve ever read on her. It borders on psychopathy to me, and certainly someone with no normal human feelings.
It is conquering a woman just metres away from her own father’s protection. Once that was done, I don’t think OP has ever recovered.
Night terrors here will be PTSD-induced. If this man knows he’s caused them, he would stay away but instead it’s a fresh start.
Then he will say ‘but does no mean no?’ and it will start again.
Poor Poet must be exhausted. Her updates made me want to weep.

If you are able to reflect at all at the moment Poet, could you try to think about why you see his perceived ignorance of the law as an excuse, yet you’re starting to see that his clear knowledge of your lack of consent isn’t one?

The criminality is a bit of a red herring, because it’s quite unlikely, for emotional and practical reasons, that you’ll ever report him.

I’m so sorry poet, the nightmare was your subconscious waking up to the years of trauma you have experienced and suppressed for so long. The therapy is helping to bring them to the surface. I had nightmares but they started after I left exh. I’m also sorry to say but I think he was touching you sexually which triggered the nightmare. Maybe he was surprised by your reaction and tried to cover his tracks but acting concerned. The nightmare and all the trauma is caused by his actions alone. I don’t believe he can change, I used to think my exh would change but the abuse only got worse. I also don’t see how you can start afresh, he is basically saying to forget all his abuse over the years, which is impossible. It would be a good idea to talk about this to your therapist on Monday. There is also an app that might help you, it’s called bright sky uk. You can use it as a journal, once you’ve completed what you want to write to help process the abuse you can email it to your therapist, then delete the app. So your husband will not find it on your phone, each time you need it download the app then delete it xx

The app also lists several helplines and positive outcomes for survivors xx

Thank you for all the lovely supportive and encouraging messages , I always feel so humbled and grateful that so many of you take the time to patiently re- explain things to me.

I suppose it comes down to this . How can I get past the notion that this time will be different if I just give him another chance? The good parts seem so good it feels worth fighting for deep down, which is part of the issue

You won't get past it, but sadly you will be proven wrong x

The good parts seem so good

Don't you see though? This is exactly as he has designed. If you think about the women out there who are in abusive relationships, do you think that this is their reality 24/7, that all they experience is trauma and abuse? No. Because these men know what they're doing, they know that they have to sprinkle in enough good times so that they can fully indoctrinate their victim. He's bread crumbing you with the bare minimum of humanity that he thinks is needed so that you will stay. And it sure as hell isn't genuine.

And on that same theme: the good parts seem so good. That only works when it's followed by "but he always leaves his dirty socks on the floor" or something equally as trivial, not "but he continually rapes me and gaslights me into thinking that I deserve it".

I just feel sad for a young woman who was held down and digitally raped so recently who thinks any of this marriage is good.

There’s a lovely plate of food in front of you. You’re hungry. However there’s a little shit mixed in with it. Just a little. Maybe not even in all of it, just some of it, but you don’t know which bits.

How much will you eat?

You can't "fight for this" on your own. You can't will a good relationship into existence with a man who regularly rapes you.

"The good parts" are fleeting and insincere.

He hugged you? get a pet.
He bought you extravagant gifts? when you have full access to your own finances you can buy whatever you like
You find him attractive? Imagine being attracted to someone you aren't afraid will rape you.

I think the fact that you can distill it down to one single critical issue Poet just shows how far you have come.

If you carried on in this life, are you prepared to give him the next fifty years of your life, continually hoping that this time he will change? That doesn't sound like much of a life, does it. So how many years, how many chances? What does the evidence show based on chances you've already given? At what point do his chances run out?

HE should be feeling that the good parts are so good that it’s worth fighting for though - and then he would do it with his own private therapy in which he decides to be truthful and accountable and you would witness change in him. There’s no way he’d be able to change without serious therapy. He doesn’t know how (or doesn’t want to) respect you. He’d need some kind of intervention for that.

My experience was that I went from maybe it will be different this time, to I don't think it will be different, to this is NEVER going to change. Once I knew that, I left. But my abusive ex was nothing compared to yours and what he puts you through. It's the death of hope that sets you free. Seeing him for who he is and realising that whatever he says, whatever moves he makes, this is who he is and will never change.

So how is he fighting for those 'good parts'?

What is he actually doing?

And how does the 'good' balance against the 'bad'?

What does he do for you that makes you a stronger, more confident, more independent, self-actualised person?

Or does he just stroke your hair, make empty promises, and give you trauma bonding 'warm fuzzies' when you're sad about the ways in which he abuses you?

You can't even ask him for access to the family finances, or open your own bank account that he can't access to put your wages into, because it's too dangerous.

Really though, you're doing great, Poet. Just keep questioning things (quietly, to yourself), going to therapy, staying strong, and believing you deserve your body to be respected, and eventually everything will fall into place in your mind.

I know. It’s heartbreaking
When you think about how little time has actually passed since Poet first posted, and what has happened to her in that time, it’s just horrifying.

Rape, digital rape, sexual assault, sexual harassment, raping her in her sleep, lying to her face, masturbating on/next to her, not letting her have knowledge of the finances, emotional abuse, physical abuse, violence, sexual violence, manipulation, lies, control, disrespect, boundary pushing.

Telling her he will continue to rape and assault her as it’s easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

All of this has happened in just a few short weeks, and this is all we know about. And she still thinks the ‘good’ parts are real. It’s so, so heartbreaking. I hate this vile man for what he’s done to her. @PinkPoetAgain1you could have such a happy life free of this monster, and your children