MARCH 2026 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."
6

Hello marsh, it sounds like you're in the right place. I'm sorry to hear you're in such a tough place right now. It's never too late to put boundaries in place, fwiw. The biggest obstacle is your own fear, and that's just fear. It's just your nervous system activating in a certain way.

What would happen, really, if you decided abusing you in front of your child crossed a line you won't accept, and you withdrew your services?

It's not just "a grandparent" though, it's her mother.

If an adult child sees their own child having the type of relationship with the grandparents that they wish they'd had with those same people, who were their parents, I can see how that could spark jealousy anger resentment etc.

I can also see how a narcissist might deliberately engineer this situation to purposely hurt their own adult child further, compounding the original wound by proving that they can have a relationship where they are nice to a child. Just when it came to their own child, they didn't. That's got to hurt.

Possibly narc could also getting off on the drama and toxicity playing out between adult child and grandchild, all whilst portraying themselves as the innocent one who's done nothing wrong. Because to anyone who doesn't know the history, that's how it's going to look.

That's the trouble with narcs. Even when they're being "nice", half the time they're playing mind games.

@marshj81 hi and good to see you here. It's never too late to start with boundaries. When you can't do the old ways any more, it's OK to look after yourself first and change things. It won't be easy, but I found that perimenopause made it easier to make changes, as there were such big changes in myself already, I simply had to make changes in family contact also.

Sorry I was being a bit sarcastic. I meant that in normal situations. Trying to make the point that people pull their children out of these situations for very serious reasons as most parents want their kids to have good relationships with their grandparents.

There's definitely some of this going on in my FOO.

Makes a lot of sense what eerie said about the grandparents being more detached from the grandchildren, too.

I'm glad your son is improving genuinewedding. I always feel sorry for DC when their parent insists they need to have a relationship with their abusive ex or grandparents. Goes to show how much the stress was stifling him. For yourself too. It's why it's such a joke when people say things like work harder if you want to achieve xyz. As if it's that simple. No acknowledgement that some people starting from a neutral ground point and some are half mile behind and knee deep in toxicity. You've done well just to turn out to be a decent human being. Don't be too hard in yourself if you haven't quite reached the xyz. I understand your anger though.

You've been handed the perfect excuse to stay away marsh!
Firstly you shouldn't have been spoken to like that in front of your DC, you need to protect them so can stay away for that reason. It doesn't matter why they did it, fact is they did it and it's ok to draw a line in the sand and keep your distance because of it. You have no moral obligation to be a carer to your abuser.

Secondly, you can play upto what has been said. You can agree you're out of control (what does that mean anyway? It doesn't have to mean what they think it means) and don't want to upset anyone, which is why you need to retreat and regroup. You'll be back after a course of therapy, but there's a wait list so you don't know how long that'll be...

I think a bit of detachment is healthy, also to remember as adults we have the control over our little family. I think if the kids can see it doesn’t bother mum or dad it won’t bother them. I do love the let them theory!

I think there's also an element, when a grandchild is very young, that they supply the narc with ample opportunity to show how special and caring they are, and to play the role of amazing grandparents. They would have treated their own child well if only their child hadn't been such a disappointment. Look how amazing they are with their grandchild! Proving the problem was always the child and not them.

Until the grandchild is old enough to talk and have opinions, that is.

I think that's triangulation

Oh! Yes I totally agree. It's daft when people think we've gone NC for no reason or for a tiny reason. It's always something massive and long lasting.

Yes, how dare we have opinions, pithy, the very cheek of us 😆

Well, I'm waiting to see if the annual summer hoover occurs this year by Narc1 or if I'm going to be left in peace. I suspect Narc2 is reaching some kind of explosion point so I'm waiting to see how people try to make that effect me too, when it eventually occurs. I will hear about these things through the family members I'm still in touch with. I'm hoping none are pressed into being flying monkeys.

@marshj81 I agree with the others, it’s never too late to assert boundaries. It’s not ok for your parents to shout and swear at you, especially not in front of your DC. I’d struggle to continue contact under the circumstances as I’d worry that my DC would be learning its normal to tolerate some who’s supposed to care about you shouting and swearing at you when you’re not doing what they want. You can give yourself permission to put yourself and your DC first.

I wonder if anyone has ever gone in and fucked this shit up, told them all and never looked back and lived happily ever after!?

I would imagine so. I did it to my father when he said my mother was only leaving him because I'd bullied her into it (this was after 25 years of domestic abuse, coercive controlling, vicious bullying). He had no comeback. Literally nothing. Just stared at me and then turned around and rushed out of the room and never spoke to me again.

No regrets.

Spot on

If a narc needs to feel like the most important person in the room do they scapegoat a child so they always have someone beneath them? That way they have a permanent lower person to feel better then

My father did it to me. I could write a book just on his weird behaviour.

What I can’t understand is what are they actually project onto the child? Is it because they can’t connect to the child so they blame the child? Do they blame feelings of inadequacy from a work incident on that child or would that be projected back to that person?

@MustIgo I guess if you think of DV, a man will often take something out on his partner (or his kids) and they dread him
coming home in a bad mood. Other times it will be something triggered in a moment (something has made them feel disrespected or insecure and they react to that). Sometimes I think it does happen when they see themselves in their children, other times it’s because they don’t. I think with emotional abuse, it’s similar.

I also was looking into the distinction between dysfunction and abuse, as I feel my family were not doing harmful things on purpose but that neglect is still harmful even if it’s “accidental”. The stuff I was reading was talking about the harm that’s done (neglecting physical needs can cause physical harm, and neglecting emotional needs can cause emotional harm where the children/adult children can’t function normally because they’ve been damaged by their treatment during childhood).

If a parent was attempting to “teach their child a lesson about respect” but their lack of understanding/development led them to beat their child and break a limb, this has visibly harmed the child. If their lack of understanding leads them to give their child the silent treatment for days or to endlessly berate them, this is going to cause invisible harm.

@MustIgo in my case, for example, my mum has always been very nervous and she had several breakdowns when I was growing up. But instead of acknowledging that she wasn’t able to look after me (and siblings) because of her own issues, she made out that I was a problem child and if it wasn’t for me, our little family would be ‘normal’. Wider family members still think I am the one with the problems, who is not ‘normal’, when I have been fine once I took myself out of the toxic dynamics.

But yes, any feelings of inadequacy can be blamed on the child. If something happened at work, they would not admit that they themselves feel inadequate or shamed or whatever. Instead when they get home and the child doesn’t make them feel better about themselves (doesn’t give them their supply), they’ll make the child feel bad for that, they make the child the failure. Then they can keep on pretending that they themselves are fine.

I understand really what abuse is, I understand what emotionally immature is but what exactly sets narcs apart? I feel like the immaturity is in the fact they don’t want to feel their emotions (especially the negative ones) and they purposefully want to feel other ones. Narcissistic people don’t look mentally unwell really and they often fit in rather well, which I find confusing as you’d think they would be more mad given it’s a disorder. How do they seem to function with this disorder? At there levels of narcissism where they aren’t all that bad?

In my reading as now this is fascinating me (don’t meant to downplay people’s pain). I read that narcissism is an intense form of reassurance seeking. All people seek reassurance don’t they? Is the difference in that once you get it you feel better and off you go. They spend their whole like seeking it even form their children? I have been guilty of reassurance seeking but I’m pretty sure it’s because I needed it at that moment.

i would use the word maladaptive rather than intense.

narcissists have special me

sense of self importance
preoccupation with power, beauty or success
entitled
can only be around people who are important or special
interpersonally exploitative
arrogant
lack empathy
must be admired
envious of others (or believes others are envious)

I have been confused on the word “supply”
and what this actually is. Everyone seeks in some moment’s reassurance. But I think I understand now. In their children they seek reassurance that they are an amazing human. When they don’t get this because they don’t actually do any of the groundwork to get secure attached kids the child makes them feel and look crap so they punished. If the child makes them feel like a good parent they are golden. The golden child visually looks good but insecurely attached. The scapegoat is just a kid who isn’t attached securely and left to drown. In effect the kids are doing all the work to try and stay attached to the narc and often become maladaptive themselves.

When my MIL had the children she would always say how well behaved they were, how well they listened etc. I thought she was putting me down as I know full well they were as naughty as they are at home because they told me. Now I can see she was trying to make her parenting of them look good, she has a special touch. It’s not about you being
put down and more them putting themselves up. But to a mum I felt like she was putting me down. What she wanted was a clap from me.