MARCH 2026 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."
6

It could be quite difficult to completely no contact everyone in one hit with this many members and kids also involved. It's so horrible because everyone is dysfunctional to you in the end this dynamic.( kids are often the innocent victim but some adopt the same behaviour - not your kids I mean

And it escalates as you get more sick of it and give that vibe off subconsciously even.

It might be easier to start defining very strong boundaries with them. Get those very clear in your mind and clear what you will do in response to overstep. Mine started with politely calling out awful behaviour of my mum and not allowing access into my home. It then naturally developed. They react very badly and try all sorts at this stage when your behaviour changes.

Think about text conversations and attempts at dragging you into drama. A very boring, not interested response is the aim. And showing that through your behaviour too. Just walk out the room the minute anyone starts it.

Alongside that, gradually be less available and any interaction by text, use the grey rock constantly.

Spend more and more time not engaging or doing things with them. It will then naturally evolve and you'll be prepared for a cut off at some point.

It’s really sad for the children. My eldest has asked several times why she hasn’t had a happy birthday or a card or visit. What has she done wrong, she is as equally valuable and worthy. I literally have told her they too stuck up. Probably not the best but it’s the truth. I saw a social media post today from one of them, it talks about empathy and how they can’t help but be so empathetic and sensitive in this harsh word. What utter bollocks, you so empathetic you forgot your nieces birthday! They can post and call themselves what they like but it’s all such rubbish. I don’t know who they fooling, the greater public I suppose.

@MustIgoYes I suppose it’s good they sent a present in a way but I know that’s my dad’s way of saying sorry and that’s the end of it. No. Where does that end? 3 hours in a car and he wasn’t even there for an organised visit. What next, no one there? No apology. No acknowledgement. It’s nearly 2 weeks now. I have to ring and say thank you for the gift. Send Father’s Day cards. Continue with this performative nonsense after they’ve behaved appallingly. I can’t get my kids to sign a best grandad in the world card when he couldn’t even be bothered to show up.

It’s every occasion that gets spoiled with these blowups. I don’t think it’s a coincidence and it usually starts with something engineered by GB. At least we haven’t got any special occasions for a couple of months. That’s what it’s coming to now! I just want a quiet life.

@TranscendThis Yes - I think that’s it. I’m not saying never, I’m just saying not there - they can come here. We went out for lunch with the GPs and it was really nice. Then next time we go you’ve got their uncle hiding in his room - kids wondering why he didn’t say hello - it just makes for uncomfortable situations and that feels very much intentional. I’m not going to normalise it to my kids so best to remove ourselves from the picture and if GPs want contact that will be on our terms. My mother does talk about my nephew constantly at their house - less in ours and she didn’t mention him once when we went out. Not that she isn’t allowed to mention him, but my god, the one day it was constant and my eldest is so sick of it.

My eldest probably will receive a present when we happen to cross paths, so could be months later. To be honest she is usually annoyed by them and won’t want it. I teach her that people who care prioritise you, especially when it’s your birthday etc.

It is harder to teach them when they get sorry gifts as kids are so easy to manipulate, especially when they are small. But I suspect they cotton on eventually. But then comes the sadness of the truth!

My mother continually talks about me as though I was a problem child. Nevermind the fact that from the age of 9 they left me alone from 7pm every night while they worked in their business. Over time, that turned into naps on the sofa from 5pm - a latch key kid by about 11. Not allowed out. Couldn’t have friends over because they didn’t want people to find out about their arrangement. If I was lucky, my brother who is 6 years older would leave me alone. If I wasn’t he’d beat the crap out of me. He lifted me up by the throat once and dropped me. I smacked the back of my head on the bannister and cut it open. They wouldn’t take me to hospital to get it stitched because they didn’t want people to know. They really were fucking appalling parents but we have to sit and play nice - pretend we’ve forgotten. Because somewhere deep inside of me is that little girl still trying to get approval. Love. But then I look at my son and think I was only a year older than you when all that started. I can’t imagine any excuse in the world that could justify being so neglectful. Sometimes I want to ask them - what were you thinking? But there’s no point - I already know. Themselves, just like they’re doing right now.

That sounds awful, sorry. I can’t understand how they thought that was ok, where is the empathy. I mean we all do things we regret, like sometimes I shout and I go to bed and I hate myself for loosing my temper. Do they actually feel a sense of power for hurting someone small?

@Ladybyrd that is just awful! I was a latch key kid from 9. I was very responsible-and-sensible of course. My DSis and I used to argue sometimes when she got home. But I just can’t imagine this level of abuse continuing because they didn’t want to be found out for being neglectful. I’m so sorry.

@Ladybyrd I really feel for you, and I know what you mean about still at some level subconsciously wanting approval. My parents did not leave me to fend for myself but did put a lot of effort in to making sure no-one ever found out what our family was really like. My older brother was also violent but this was always excused and/or denied. Like you, it wasn't really until I had children of my own that I really recognised how neglectful it was that my parents allowed this to happen. I eventually went NC with GB1 (his nastiness continued well in to adulthood) and our parents treated me as the problem- Mum told me that these things happen in every family but other people have the loyalty to keep it quiet. Specific examples that I brought up were denied completely and the official line was that as children we just fought a bit like normal siblings (forgetting that for a lot of the time he was actually an adult and I was a teenager). Throughout all of this, and even when I was being called a liar, dramatic, attention seeking etc for simply saying that I did not want my family around him, for some reason I still publicly played nice. GB2 also has a long history of awful behaviour and although I privately have very little to do with him, publicly I am still expected to pretend that all is well and I do tend to go along with it. In my case I think it's mainly because of a feeling (hope?) that I can't quite shake that my parents are also victims of GB1/GB2 and I don't want to add to their stress/upset. I know that this is a role I was conditioned to accept- to put my own feelings last and focus on helping my parents/brothers. It is not something I would ever want my children to do. For a long time I put distance between me and my FOO but now that Mum is elderly I feel myself being dragged back in.
One thing that happened recently that shocked me/opened my eyes was a situation where Mum and GB2 refused to listen when I warned them that a plan they made was not workable. I was called all sorts of names, there was lots of fuss made about how clever/knowledgeable/wonderful GB2 is and the general agreement was that I must have my own selfish agenda. When inevitably the problems I expected happened GB2 just sort of shrugged and walked away and I was expected to sort everything out. In the moment, Mum told me 'You're the only one who never lets me down' and I felt a huge sense of validation/acceptance and like maybe finally they she was seeing the truth. But obviously as soon as the immediate crisis was over we were back to me being 'difficult' and GB2 being wonderful. What shocked me was how quickly, even after the years of dealing with this sort of thing, I went right back to being a 13 year old girl just hoping that finally someone believed me.

Oh, @formalwellies I just don’t see your mum as a victim at all. I’m so sorry this has been your life.

She calls herself a victim!!!!!!!!! I’d die as a mother before being forced into that kind of behaviour. How is she a victim!

Thanks everyone. I actually just feel better saying it out loud. Actually that incident knocked me out and I came to to my dad screaming in my face, automatically blaming me until he saw blood. It actually just feels good getting that out but yes @formalwellies, I think it’s having kids that makes you think Christ that was bad.

So yes. Can’t see me ringing anytime soon. Sod their approval!

It’s so awful and it’s actually made me stop and think for a long time about myself and my home. You forget that your children are controlled by such a tiny environment. They have no idea what the big world is like. It’s so important that we make sure this little world of there’s is somewhere loving. It’s actually made me cry and I will look at my own house a bit closer. It’s hard when you have kids and they push so many buttons and have such attitude and sometimes really unlikable to always look at the situation in a loving way.

Sometimes as a mum doing most of the work I am tired and get it wrong. It’s a hard role.

If a parent only has one child would this child serve all the roles?

Yes I think so. In my DH’s family, there was a clear golden child, but he can still be treated as a scapegoat at the drop of a hat if he isn’t falling in line (challenging MiL on her behaviour because he likes to be “righteous”). So I think if there was only one it would just depend on the mood of the narc, whether they’re presenting the child as a trophy or berating them in private.

@MustIgoWell the four of us had the absolute best time today at the school sports day so stuff the lot of them! And it has actually made us closer as a family. It’s certainly made me recognise a few behaviours I’d been emulating. And if you can see it, you can fix it.

I have to ring and say thank you for the gift. Send Father’s Day cards. Continue with this performative nonsense after they’ve behaved appallingly. I can’t get my kids to sign a best grandad in the world card when he couldn’t even be bothered to show up.

You don't have to do any of this. You don't owe thanks for an unsolicited gift that wasn't sent in the spirit of gifting but has been used as manipulation. You don't have to thank him for his manipulation, you can ignore it. If you decide to send a father's day card find a plain one. One that just says "happy father's day", nothing about him being awesome or anything. Validate yourself by not sending the "awesome grandad" one. You don't have to lie to boost his ego. He could boost his own ego by doing genuine acts of kindness to people, which comes from a place of care. If he can't/won't do that, that's on him. You're not responsible for his emotions or how he feels about himself.

It’s every occasion that gets spoiled with these blowups. I don’t think it’s a coincidence and it usually starts with something engineered by GB. At least we haven’t got any special occasions for a couple of months. That’s what it’s coming to now! I just want a quiet life.

One of the things I did prior to NC was I stopped any visits around special occasions. There's 52 weeks in a year, no reason at all for the week containing a special occasion to be ruined. If a ruined day has to be risked, it can be one of the ordinary ones.

They really were fucking appalling parents but we have to sit and play nice - pretend we’ve forgotten.

That stuff with your abusive brother, ladybird. Geez. You don't have to play nice with your parents. There's a lesson here for your son - he can trust his instincts, recognise when someone isn't good to be around and choose to stay away. I'd listen to him. There's no need to try to fix something you didn't break, just so that these nasty people can have access to him.

No, I can’t send anything @SamAndAnnie. It’s not a matter of punishment, but it just feels like a performance. As my partner says, they don’t bother, make a point of showing our children how much they bother for their cousin over and over again. Nope. Last Sunday was beyond insulting to my kids. No apology. No acknowledgment. Zero concern. So I’m withdrawing my obligation to social protocol.

Jesus it comes to something when you have to AVOID your own family around special occasions! But I think you’re right. I just don’t see an end to the flare ups and they seem to be escalating so I see no sense whatsoever in contacting them. It seems to be a free pass to just keep going.

@Ladybyrd I'm glad to hear you are enjoying your time with your children. I think you're right that if we can recognise the dysfunctional traits in our FOO we can hopefully break the pattern and avoid doing the same with our children. I'm far from perfect but am trying to do the same.

In many ways I wish I had been bolder in calling out my unreasonable behaviour earlier. As a pp mentioned upthread, I think I put up with a lot of things because they seemed small in comparison to some of the bigger problems with my family. I know I also believed that I must be over-reacting, that my parents were great parents just dealing with a difficult situation and that if I made a 'fuss' it would make things harder for them. I also felt that I would not be believed, so I tried to just distance myself from them as quietly as possible. The only time I really stood my ground was when I went NC with GB1 and this was only after my parents pushed me to let him come and stay with me and my newborn- I had planned to just quietly stay away from him.
I now find myself drawn back in to the madness after years of playing nice but keeping a distance. Mum has care needs that will only increase but is still trying to keep up the image of a tight knit family and refuses to even consider paid care because 'my family look after me'. She and GB2 expect me to just slot in to my allotted role and sacrifice everything else to look after mum and take her role as support human for GB2 ('family comes first!!'). Extended family and family friends believe the stories told over the years and consider GB2 to be the son who always stayed around to help his family despite challenges outside his control whilst I lived some sort of charmed life where everything came easily. The expectation is now that I will personally deal with a lot of mum's care, as well as helping GB2, whilst GB2 dictates how everything is done to preserve the narrative. I feel it's too late to speak up now- it would seem cruel and they would deny everything anyway. So I am left having to constantly defend my boundaries against increasing demands (and aggression from GB2 who really can't get his head around me saying no).
If anyone else is considering reducing contact significantly but stopping short of NC, I would advise you to think carefully about why that is. Do you envisage wanting to rebuild the relationship at some point? Do you think building a more healthy relationship will be possible after a break? Have they ever shown any signs of being willing to properly listen to you? Is there anything to be gained from keeping a connection with this person? Is this just a stepping stone to NC? I wish I'd really thought about these things 20 years ago, as I would probably have concluded that I should have gone NC with all of them.

@formalwellies I know you really don’t seem to want to, but I would go NC in your situation and never look back. It’s not too late. You don’t owe them an explanation and the fact that you’re saying they would just deny it is further evidence that they don’t care. It’s making you miserable and putting you in a really difficult situation (on a regular basis) that you are actually able to just remove yourself from.

@Eeriefairy You are probably right. I just feel that since Mum now has dementia it feels cruel to go NC now when I hadn't when she was less vulnerable. My hope was that I would be able to help her organise residential care where she can be safe and have people around her, so that I can go back to just visiting and avoiding any contact with GB2. But despite her really needing, and wanting, someone to be with her 24/7 they will not even consider that. One thing I am certain of is that once she passes I will have absolutely no contact with GB2.

@formalwellies The next time my brother phones with a crisis (he plays the big I am but when it came to actual care when they were both ill, it was pitiful), I plan to get social services involved. The first sign of trouble and he was blowing up my phone in the middle of the school run. I’m 3 hours away. I’m sure he has his eye on the house. I’d rather it went in care fees and they were looked after properly. I certainly won’t be running up and down to the detriment of my kids so he can take it all anyway.

I don’t think I need to go NC with my particular narcs. What I’m in the process of doing is having zero expectations, not caring or looking. Just going to keep in my own lane. If we absolutely have to go then just go and leave them to it. It is easier to do because it’s not my family of origin. My mum wasn’t a saint but nothing like this. I think being the scapegoated family is a better position. I can’t imagine what it would be like married to a Narcissist golden balls son. The pressure to be better than everyone must be heavy.

One of the really twisted things I found was how they must have their own way. It was ridiculous the lengths they went to to try to force me into special occasions meetups, refusing any other times and how just existing quietly in their company "wasn't allowed". The anger I got from them over those things was quite unreal. They just couldn't accept a low-key relationship at all. I hope you all have a better time with yours when you scale back and don't get as much hassle as I did.

That sounds very familiar. I think it's partly a desire to be in control and partly performative (to keep up the pretence that they have a big happy family). My Mum still complains that she has never spent Xmas day with me and my DC. Oldest is now in her 20s and my parents have been invited to come to us every year since she was born. But they always wanted us to join them at their place with GB1 when he was alive(+family), GB2 and assorted other family members. DH always offered to collect them and take them home but they always refused. Their story is that we chose MIL over them (when actually we always invited both). Even this year, when there was no big family gathering, Mum declined our invitation and spent the day with GB2. Which is fine, but why make the fuss about never having Xmas with us?