MARCH 2026 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."
6

I’m still feeling a bit violated with this relationship with a friend. We shared stories and vulnerabilities. To me I thought that meant something, a trusted friendship. All of what she told me I know to be completely true so not even fabricated to gain my trust (well I don’t think so). But to her it meant nothing, just a method to get my attention for a bit before moving on .

People come, people go and when a friendship is over I absolutely hate that people know all kinds of personal private business about me. It's why I've chosen not to share, any more. If life changed and I got a new partner one day, I don't even think I'd tell them half the stuff about me. Is that weird 🤔

I had to end a friendship which had spanned decades a few years back and will take the real reason to the grave as it would be unfair as then I would have to tell her business too. Just because you fall out with someone does not mean you need to be disloyal to whatever relationship you had with them before hand. I think this is what my narc family don't get - I know their secrets but I am not a gossip. Unlike them.

It’s been one and a half years since going NC with my abusive mother. I have been really coming to terms with the truth that she isn’t ever going to do what I always want - to say somehow that she’s sorry, that she really loves me, that she misses me because I matter to her … she will be furious with me to her grave because I’m not giving her whatever she wants and feels entitled to. She has no feelings for me beyond that. She has demonstrated that when one of my siblings died and when her husband died. No actual grief or ever any mention of missing the person or what she loved about them, nothing at all. Just pseudo-grief when other people are around if she thinks she can get attention in that moment, and otherwise carrying merrily on, and never missing any opportunity to re-write history if she thinks it can somehow make her look good.

someone pointed out to me that I’m going through grief and I think that’s true. It doesn’t seem like it’s ever going to get better. I feel I’m seeing the whole story of my life the way it really is - that I was never a loved child and was abused as a child and then simply used and discarded as an adult.

My siblings are in an even worse situation. It’s hard not to feel hopeless.

So is it common for people to befriend you and mirror you and then just move on? Perhaps it’s me then, I’m very loyal, I don’t desire an exciting life, I may be too boring now. Im trying to tell myself that it’s ok and not a reflection on me. I really am not the most exciting person, after lots of life trauma I just want consistency and peace. This friend thrives within chaos, we were probably not on the same paths. I just get fed up of loosing people. Where are all the peaceful healed and loyal people?

Yes because there's a lot of shite people out there!

I'm same as you, I seek connections with people who's company I enjoy (and hopefully they feel the same).

Unfortunately, a lot of people seek friendships of convenience, they're only friends because you're there and they regularly see you or because of what they can get out of you (do them favours/lend money/be their unpaid counsellor/you're someone to go do xyz with because they don't want to do it alone etc). With the first lot, the second your lives go in different directions you never see them again and with the second lot it's when you stop giving them what they want that you don't see them for dust, unless you get tired of being used and cut them off first.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with you.

Do you ever like to read about psychology and spirituality?

I've recently been captured by Carl Jung. He explains things so well. It's hard to accept and come to terms with truths. Such as, we don't really have friends in the way we always believed. It is not personal. As you start awakening to reality of people, society, all the lies conditioned not by just dysfunctional parents but by school, religions, then you do gradually adjust.to the new reality you will eventually find yourself in.

It's a huge grief. But it really is not you, a problem with you, or something wrong with you.

What is the new reality? That everything and everyone is basically fake and throw away. It’s all a marriage of convenience and selfishness and I.

It's not quite that.

But the self serving nature of humans is actually a driving force we often underestimate. E.g you must meet whatever my need is right now, even unconsciously, and when you don't I will likely find a reason I need and can accept to find somewhere else to fulfil that need'

I made that quote up, but it's kind of what really goes on.

The more you become your true authentic self, the more people will drop away. That's what Carl Jung talks about in his reflections.

It's a lot to come to terms with tbh in my opinion.

I am at a point where I see no friends around really and think wtf is going on. Through therapy and reading, I'm seeing this is part of the process.

I was trained to be a people pleaser. But also come with lots of drama and trauma. My relationships have all been based on this personality template of mine. All my old friendships, my inability to truly see how abusive certain male behavior was when choosing a partner. Then again when trying to be a parent.

When you stop being the above and you stop doing the things that you thought were ' YOU ', you can become a different person to the friends you knew.

When you come here to this group because you're questioning your family dysfunction, you're starting the process of awakening to this and finding the real self underneath the training and conditioning.

@TranscendThis I did have a bit of read on the human ego. The fact it needs the other to define itself by and we are often driven by its desires due to evolutionary factors. But in this modern age it’s become twisted. It’s got a bit of a grip on the way we behave. My ego was pretty much destroyed, I have never valued myself as much and therefore needed others to value me for me. It’s not nice to be disliked but it’s something I think it’s important to get to grips with as we aren’t all on the same path. I’ve pulled away from the path of ego and trying to live a more simple and connected life. To be honest I don’t think that those who are mega ego driven and seek money and status are ever happy when they get it.

Being disliked is part of it and it is incredibly difficult to come to terms with at first. I still think often ' what can I do for this person who I feel is upset with me'.....And I tell myself to stop and do something for ME instead.

I'm getting better at it. But I know i' m now probably labelled a Karen ( and have been) by people close to me for simply saying ' oh excuse me, that's not ok, the thing broke that I paid for, please can I have a refund '. Even in the nicest friendliest voice. And then insisting, of but it has broken down and I just paid for it. ' Rather than being nice and sweet and saying it's ok anything deviating that can make you a problem in others eyes.

And then dealing with neighbours who took and still take extreme advantage once they realized I was a soft person. And then being assertive, that then makes you the difficult one and not ' liked'.

Then you stop running after friends where you have historically chased. And then you're the problem.

But you're not the problem. It is simply difficult to accept and transition into not being ' good ' and being liked.

It is literally hard to survive with no village. I can see why those cling onto it even if it’s toxic. Back in the day you’d literally die and even now it’s incredibly challenging. The golden bastards may have their issues but they at least have a village. The outside is always going to be the one looked upon as being the awkward one, it’s a heavy price in my opinion to pay. I can absolutely see why it’s last option.

I've certainly found that as I've started to look more closely at the role I was 'assigned' in my dysfunctional family the more I have realised I was also playing that role with friends etc. In my case I was trained from a young age to be compliant and loyal, to put myself last and not make a fuss. So I know that I sought/attracted people who were looking for just that and probably really put off people who wanted something more 'authentic' for want of a better word. I can think of many friendships where I gave a lot, supported without question and thought that we were close friends but they either disappeared when they no longer needed my help or decided it was 'too much' when I needed some support myself. After years of thinking I must be breaking some sort of social rule that I didn't understand about what support to expect (I never thought I asked for as much as I gave but some people acted like I was totally unreasonable to expect anything) I have realised that actually I was just making friends with people too much like my FOO.

I agree.so much with this. It's what most people do. It's like a murmuration of birds. They have to gather together in formations like that to literally survive.

I find the whole thing horrible because I often want to go back to not realising things and believing I was part of this great family, group / community.

I have continually faced situations where I am different and it does not matter what I do it couldn't and can't be overcome. So I try accept this is how it was supposed to be for me. Things were forced on me to take me down this road.... family and people in my life getting more and more abusive to the point I was never out of hospital ( physical illness). So this was forced. This or be dead probably a year ago.

I believe it's forced on some people. I don't know why.

The ultimate outcome in all this is you go within instead of outwards to secure all those feelings of love and belonging , safety etc. I'm still learning and it's very hard. But I understand this concept more and more.

This is literally the very reason for having a family isn’t it. Together we are stronger. We are supposed to be supporting each other so we all achieve together. I hate these narcs! They ruin the beauty of family. Im so jealous of those people I know that have genuinely beautiful families.

Now my friend has ruined the beauty of a friendship by making it self serving. People have lost what it means to have a relationship. If you can give to yourself what you need then you only ever enter a relationship for real connection.

The idea of the 'Village' is an interesting one for those of us coming to terms with having grown up in a dysfunctional family. My Golden Child brother frequently makes reference to this, in the context of complaining that other people are not doing enough to help him (with a small child) and Mum (with care needs). What he won't recognise is that so far the his expectation/experience has always been that the 'Village' will support him; he has never gone out of his way to help anyone else.
My family, probably like many of our families on here, was always very good at keeping up the appearance of a being very 'nice'. All the unpleasant things were covered up/excused and over time history was re-written. This makes it particularly hard to be the person who steps away since to the outside world (including extended family, friends etc) it looks like you must be over-reacting/making things up etc because everything has been fine until now.
I'm in the middle of a difficult version of this where Mum really needs care and Golden Child has decreed that 'her village' must provide this (not paid care, care home etc). He minimises all the things I already do for her (very time consuming, and things that are absolutely necessary but he refuses to do) and complains constantly about how much he has to do and how little help he gets. I am trying to step back a lot further and have put in place some boundaries that I am defending strongly. This is not going down well and I am very aware to anyone (including HCP and social workers etc) that does not know the full story it looks like Golden Child is the wonderful son who just wants to look after his lovely Mum who always did so much for everyone else, whereas I am the nasty daughter who goes off enjoying herself whilst they are struggling and makes a fuss about doing the slightest thing. I can see that if I were to start telling the full truth to everyone I would be seen as making things up/dramatising things and upsetting a lovely old woman and her wonderful son.

The village to me is a place you go to step out of society. Where everyones value is the same, where people can unmask and just be. Nobody has to physically help anyone. Unfortunately I don’t have this. When we meet the discussion is money, whose helped who, whose amazing, who knows this, who has this information blah blah.

I think this is the common experience for us all on this thread. So none of us could truly understand anything different to the latter you describe.

I do over time see a lot of flaws in even seemingly functioning families. Maybe that's envy. I really don't believe many family systems are free of harm and hurt on some level. The poem by Larkin is a good reflection of that. Some just fuck you up significantly more than others.

I watched the story online recently about the absolutely nuts sociopathic American mum who hired a hitman to kill her adopted daughters husband. Simply because she felt it was her right to decide that. The lady is out of prison already. Imagine living with that horror alive and breathing.

All parents are humans so no family is perfect. A sorry I was wrong goes a long way. But these people are non reflective. I’m sure my kids will come to me one day and say you did these things wrong. I’ve come to realise that my own parents weren’t perfect and that’s ok. Raising kids can be really hard. I think what connects people even when they do wrong is the acknowledgment and the repair. It must be hard waiting for something that is never coming….and it’s that simple. So many would be forgiving with a real apology. It’s mad to think a parent wouldn’t want to repair a relationship with their child.

Their brains are not wired the same. I believe most of us on here have similar traits that have made us suffer a particular way, reflect on that and then ask questions and join a group like this.

The brains of parents you describe, not yourself as a parent; they are wired very differently. They mimic and mirror and are not full feeling humans in the way I believe people on here are.

It's a horrible reality. Over time you get that it's never changing. It hurts forever I believe. Hopefully less and less with awareness 💐

Do their brains literally wire differently? Like different pathways form, like what gives them reward etc? I suppose their nervous system also wires around self protection. Of all the conditions I wonder why this one is untreatable even if they go to therapy? I also wonder why those others who’ve been abused don’t wire into narcs?

People with Borderline personality disorder mirror and mimic don’t they as they don’t have an identity. I wonder why some turn into narcs and other bpd

So I'm not a professional and I don't believe there's any objective evidence like scans to show it. They really don't think in the same way. Many people observe and mirror what they known you want for a short time, but it's all a charade.

All PDs are very difficult to cure, I guess because curing means changing many entrenched negative aspects of the person's underlying personality.

Also because effective treatment means the person wanting to change and most don't. Even if they've sought help for symptoms (their messed up life or their emotions) what they want often isn't to work on themselves, it's to have a quick-fix solution or to gain a diagnosis so they can use it as an excuse ("sorry-not-sorry, I can't help behaving like an arsehole, I have xyz condition").

NPD and other PDs can be treated to alter behaviours and reduce symptoms though, to improve the life of the person who has it and all those around them. It takes dedication to the process and commitment to change on their part and of course access to the necessary therapy, which if you can't pay for yourself many people will never get.

Personally I think who gets what conditions depends in part upon genetic predisposition, as well as specific upbringing, and other life circumstances that may either cause further trauma or mitigate the effects of it. Some will get lucky and only have situational anxiety/depression which will lift once out of the situation. Others will not suffer a mental health issue, finding a way to successfully survive the FOO, but might later develop a long term physical illness due to chronic stress or trauma and perhaps will never join the dots to connect their physical issue with their FOO dynamics.

If you want a nosey at a real life situation, you could look up Mental Healness on YouTube. He has a NPD diagnosis and has been in therapy for about a decade and I suspect will be for the rest of his life, since apparently when he took a break he reverted to being a dickhead and nearly lost his marriage again.

I always find it strange that often these people can easily talk about their trauma but not do anything about it. I know this friend of mine suffered significant childhood abuse of a sexual nature. They talk about it with very little bother. They even laugh they have BPD, but that’s kind of odd isn’t it? They also talk about other situations and put themselves in chaotic situations with it resulting in the wrong response to me. The things that has happened in my life that’s traumatic affects me when I talk about them. It stops me from
repeating or putting myself in similar situations. This friend seems to have lost her fight flight response, she doesn’t leave when she should, it’s weird. I’m horrified when she talks about stuff and she isn’t.