MARCH 2026 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."
6

@formalwellies thats good advice to think about this stuff. I haven’t decided what to do about the future for me. I am still waiting for therapy. I would say I’m LC already. I honestly don’t know if my family would listen if I told them what I think. They didn’t listen last time we spoke about serious issues and the time before - a few times I’ve had to leave things “unresolved”. And I suppose my dad in particular has a history of not really listening. So probably they wouldn’t. I still don’t want to completely go NC, but I know how common that is, even when parents are 100% textbook abusive.

I think if there was significant violence, like with some of you it would be an easier decision. But for me it’s more subtle than that. It’s all emotional. But then the only reason I’m acting like emotional stuff doesn’t matter is because I’ve been raised by people who act like emotional stuff doesn’t matter. And if I was raised with physical abuse then that would seem normal, and I probably wouldn’t actually feel any different than I do now.

But typing that, it occurs to me that my parents have expected me to override the safety of my DD for the feelings of other family members (or for the sake of having a big “family unit”, I can’t tell). So is it just my feelings that don’t matter?

So far there has been little resistance to me pulling back.

Is the Xmas thing just a stick to beat you with?

I think it’s an awful thought to have but I’m not even so sure they even think about your/anyones feelings. I don’t think they know when they have hurt them because that would mean they considered them which meant they know you have them. I think they probably just as confused about what’s happening as you are (but in an unhealthy way). I think all of the work needs to come
from recognising they are not doing anything on purpose, they have no cognitive ability to recognise themselves. We have to accept no resolution. Just as much as you can’t tell a 3 year old. When dealing with a toddler you accept they are 3 and nothing you say will change anything until they age. Only these adults won’t age.

Basically yes we are at fault because miraculously we have managed to level up and reach adulthood emotional more intelligent.

@MustIgo I have to admit, this is what is under pinning my not wanting to go NC. I see it as their own inadequate upbringing and their own lack of development. If they can’t see it, they can’t change it. And I also do genuinely believe that it wasn’t on purpose, so to confront them with it would be to lay all this blame on them like a big accusation. “You weren’t good enough, you didn’t know how to xyz and that’s why you did this and that, and now here we are”. What good would it do?

If they did see it all for what it is they’d feel absolutely awful and responsible for all these terrible things that they didn’t intend. If they didn’t see it that way, they’d think I’m just being cruel and blaming them. So I feel a bit like I’m LC and I want to minimise any further damage (knowing what I know now already helps, because I’m not sitting there confused and trying to fix things) but in particular, minimising the damage with interactions with my kids - so not staying too long, explaining that certain things are my parents problem and not theirs etc. What else can I do?

I have to accept it and try to move on. But I definitely do feel a twinge of bitterness at the idea that I should bend over backwards to help and support them or provide care as they age when they have been so unsupportive of me. So I understand where formalwellies is coming from. If we don’t sever contact, that is probably going to be expected and cause arguments down the line.

I see it like a disability ( I mean no harm by this comparison). You can’t expect someone who is disabled to be able to do something they simply can’t. Their disability is that they are stuck in their own head, their needs, their view, it all ends where there body does. The sad thing is it may not even be narcissism but something like c-ptsd, the label doesn’t help really. The only person who will get hurt from a confrontation will be you. Because you have an expectation that they simply can’t meet.

Regarding care it’s hard. The reason it’s hard is because we are fully developed humans with empathy. You have to do what you can live with. You have to satisfy the humanity within yourself because I do think that if we swing too much to the extreme we will hurt ourselves. But I would separate this from the need for resolution and validation and care from the point of view you would for another human. We need emotional armour.

I fully explain everything and all to my kids. I talked about the gift incident and explained people who love you make sure they show up. Some people just live in their own worlds and that’s ok but if you want nice relationships we have to come out of our world. If you are hurt by them then focus on those who showed up for you.

The other thing I work on with my kids is to de-sensitise letting go. So they are able to see it’s ok, it’s not the end of the world. If I can show them that I’m not bothered they will hopefully be able to let go easier then me. I lost family young and I have rejection issues myself and I tend to hold on for dear life. I’m learning that’s just trauma and I don’t actually need to hold on to everyone. I can reject people, I can walk and so can they with just a meh attitude

@MustIgo I definitely agree that it’s like a disability. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with seeing it that way. If they’d had some kind of emotional physio therapy growing up they might have had more ability, and the same goes for me too - I’m working on trying to make myself better now I’ve seen this stuff for what it is.

I don’t think my parents are narcs at all. Just emotionally immature, raised by people who were emotionally immature/violent, so they see themselves as having been better parents than theirs were (and that’s also arguably true). There’s just nowhere to go from here. I have to accept the pain. They can’t deal with my difficult emotions, so they’d rather we all pretend that they don’t exist, and even that nothing “that bad” even happened.

I was a bit silly and thought that my H’s family would be like a family to me. But they also don’t do difficult emotions. I wonder if a lot of that generation have just never been taught. In my own case my own expectations have been the issue. I can’t do relationships their way though so I’ve stopped investing in it. Like a savings account the investment has shit return.

Hey all just logging in briefly. Long saga but my mother basically has psychologically abused me my whole life and I am the scapegoat child and it has taken me far too many decades to realise my mother is jealous of me which is why she treats me the way she does. Very long story short she went to my childs school and accused me of horrific things like child neglect etc. I am 2.5 years now since this happened and cut her out totally and while at times it was hard or I felt anxious at the thoughts of bumping into her in the last year I have had to come across her three times including her husbands funeral and she just pretends nothing has happened. I feel sorry for her in a way because now she has fuck all bar her flying monkeys around her but we reap what we sow. I feel sick thinking of her at times and the lengths shes gone to to ruin my name but she can never ruin my character and shes desperate to be in our lives again which will never happen. Its been a long road but my life is so calm and amazingly non chaotic that honestly I am addicted to it so take heart anyone still going through this, there is light at the end of that tunnel x

@Genuineweddingone Thank you and yes, that does give me hope. I think the issue with a lot of us is that we just want a peaceful relationship with that person so if we just try this or that. But then we never get it because peace is not what the other person thrives on. By the sound of it, most of us scapegoats start drawing a line when the person’s behaviour starts affecting our children. I absolutely would have gone NC with her over that - that’s an obscene thing to do.

I have joined the thread as it has taken me years to work out what a nasty, mentally cruel, horrible man my Dad was....I am filled with rage over all of this, and it has been since I began therapy that I realised just how bad it was....I want to completely break contact with him, but I just don't want the reaction from him, he still has a hold over me, and I'm still scared of him. I also don't want for him to turn other people against me (which he will do) he is extremely narcissistic and also just a complete chauvanist/mysoginist, treats my mum like his personal slave, yet she thinks the world of him and can't see him for what he is. I have to keep him sweet when I'm with other family members who I don't want to cut contact with and it's killing me inside. I can hardly bring myself to look at him, I would go as far as to say I actually hate him. I feel bad about it, but it's how I feel, I'm just full of rage towards him.

It might be helpful to get photos of him and rip them up or burn them privately. Write in a notebook all your pure hate and rage and then get rid of that too.

Processing the very understandable anger is important and it's part of the process.

Maybe start thinking about your boundaries communication wise to restore a sense of control in the midst of the natural yet strong emotions.

You could think about what you won't engage in, including your mum and how you'll quietly exit yourself from drama. Two word text responses for example, don't engage. Reduce any visits if possible.

Your mum is enabling and can't be rescued. It's about getting your own peace and reducing all the contact. It's the contact , communication with them and thinking then about everything historically that triggers strong feelings.

I try have faith in karma and a sense of natural justice for those who continue to hurt other people who never deserved it.

Thank you. I think I will try writing down all my rage into a notebook to acknowledge it and rip it up....I think keeping contact to a minimum and not engaging when he may be trying to get a reaction out of me is probably the best way forward.

@Ceriane I know it's never as simple as it might sounds, and there is no perfect way to deal with these things, but I think you owe it to yourself to really think about whether continuing contact with the other family members is worth the pain of having to therefore have some contact with him.
What do you think would happen if you told the other family members that you want to continue seeing them but not with him around and you don't want information about your life passing to him? If they would not be willing to respect that, is the relationship with them worth persevering with? Would you have more peace, and ultimately be happier, if you distanced yourself from all of them and concentrated on people who support you?
If you are scared of him, could you realistically get away and not let him know your whereabouts (or even consider an official restraining order if you think there is a real threat to your safety)?

I say this as someone who regrets years of disruption, manipulation, emotional blackmail etc as a result of trying to keep family members appeased after going NC with a thoroughly unpleasant family member. I can now see that the other family members were complicit, for their own reasons, in allowing the behaviour to continue and none of them want anything approaching a 'normal' relationship with me. I have tried to appease them and put up with unpleasantness from them, almost like I felt I had to make up for going against their wishes in cutting off one family member. They have still blamed me an re-written history and are now trying to drag me back in to do a lot of elderly care etc. I've noticed that family members who have always claimed that 'family comes first' etc and encouraged me to overlook things for the sake of 'keeping the family together' have shown no interest in contacting me since I have made it clear that I will not be as 'useful' as they were expecting. Their expectations/demands would be unreasonable even if we had been the perfect family but I've learned that all talk about families forgiving/supporting each other etc only seems to work one way.

@Genuineweddingone thank you for sharing. Your mother sounds awful and I’m sorry for what you went through, but I’m so glad to hear that you have managed to establish your life on your own terms and are doing so well. Well done, I know it’s extremely difficult and you have a real success story.

@Ceriane I also think it’s important to ask yourself if the extended family you mentioned are worth keeping in your life enough to keep contact with your abusive dad. If they wouldn’t support you if you told them what you’re going through, then you probably would be better off without them. If they will support you, then you don’t need him in the middle.

I think I could keep contact with my mum, siblings and other family members possibly with little contact with him. I think that would work. Thank you.

I do think you have to be mindful of just how poisonous a narcissist is. They poison all the flowers in the vase. I don’t know how possible it is to have a healthy relationship with any of the other people within the system. The narc is like the mothership, a hive mind, everything you do and everything you say will make its way back to them. They will in turn poison your actions to these people. You will always have a tube attached to you where potential poison can be delivered to your veins….like a cannula. Many people on here have tried to have relationships within the system and it’s only continued the chaos. I am very sorry once you have a narc within a family the whole family is ruined, is so sad.

Ceriane

That won’t work out. Your mother has chosen to stay with your father for her own reasons and she gets what she wants out of that dysfunctional relationship with him. People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles. It us not possible to have a relationship with a narcissist.

The narc is like the mothership, a hive mind, everything you do and everything you say will make its way back to them.

This 💯.

It's no use asking people not to tell them things, you can't trust them to do that, because those people are part of the dysfunctional dynamics where everyone appeases the narc to save their own skin.

I found the only way to keep contact with the others and feel safe about it is to keep them at arm's length. At the end of the day, if I don't want the narc to know something, I can't tell the others either.

Which means I can't have an ordinary healthy relationship with them, the sort of ordinary relationship whereby you share basic information about your life and yourself and your family. I'm always holding back, always coming across as weird (eg when I moved a couple years ago I made excuses to not give anyone my address, because I don't want the narcs having it) and everything is kept separate (eg nobody in my family have ever met anyone in my current friend circle). It's not easy, I'm always on the periphery and don't have close relationships with relatives even though I'd like to with some.

Thank you.

I am now like this with the majority of my H’s family. I find this hard, I don’t think before I speak and have verbal diarrhoea. Because of this I now find myself anxious around their company because I’m an open person in general and I worry I’ll say something I shouldn’t. I forget that they aren’t receiving information in a normal way. I have found myself trying to outdo. Someone will say something, someone will outdo, it’s just an awful environment that doesn’t bring out the best in me. I’m very sensitive to competition, I absolutely hate it.

The wonderful analogies here are so right. The hive mind, the flowers in the vase all spoilt.

I am totally disconnected from them all now as I learnt that it is impossible not to be infected by the virus of the family system when you have contact with any single one of them.

Even I, someone I feel to be compassionate and high in empathy, have been a huge enabler, I have been a flying monkey and negatively impacted my own sibling. I now see it very clearly.

I have done huge work in therapy and know I'm not someone with NPD or an abuser. I'm highlighting this to further show that the whole family is absolutely a hive mind. Even the good ones will be used against you.

I’ve been having a good think lately at what being a good person actually means. Especially now with my friend trying desperately to do all these good things. Family members believing they are good people simply because they do an act that someone supplies praise for or because they can afford expensive things. Doing good then coming and spouting awful stuff behind the doors about others, being racist and homophobic etc etc makes you a bad person. Doing all this stuff because you think you are a better person doesn’t make you a better person. This is all entitlement and superiority feeding behaviour. People believe about themselves whatever they need to and this is just fed into a narcissistic family so it’s easy to believe it when you are in it. They are mostly jealous, competitive and entitled at the core.

It's all performative. I recall conversations where I am wanting nothing but a warm connection with someone. Then realizing that they were not and never think and operate that way. Every conversation therefore strategy/ information gathering on their part. I naively go along not having had a clue.

I've had this often with my own mum, my ex and his wife too now ( they're incredibly resentful I don't function as a typical mum by society's standards. I also chose someone based on my upbringing I now see very clearly, certainly NPD behaviours.

So, I had engaged in friendly chats and interest and open ness with all these creatures. Later it was made very apparent it was all an exercise in gathering information, using that, yet. appearing wonderful and good always to everyone.

I agree that you don't really have good and bad as my example shows, we can all go dark under the right circumstances. I am however glad I am not the same as these people. I know I'm not. It's very isolating though being not like these types.

I would be someone to openly discuss whether certain thoughts could come from a place of potential racism. I self examine always. And I'd be called the racist for even saying that. I know I am a decent human btw.

I believe most of us here are the ones who grew up being honest, truthful and people really don't like those characteristics.

I don’t think many people want real opinions anymore. I believe one of my children may have a bit of spice and she has no filter. We all have to be the same in this society for being different is frowned upon. Society feels like a narc family in general. Surely every child coming out of the school doesn’t desires a job, house, marriage, kids. Such little diversity in this world.