MARCH 2026 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."
6

It is so, so freeing to be out of the fog and see the family dynamics for what they are. But what I find really difficult is how I still feel very uncomfortable out in the world. I have to actively tell myself I can do it, and I don’t have to be ashamed. The constant shame about who I am and how my family is. I have done so much work on myself, but when your whole foundation is rotten, it feels like a never-ending mountain to climb to even function as an adult. I am just so tired of it all, I just need a mum or a dad who are the actual parent, just every once in a while to feel that support and love..

I have even gone past that, past minimising myself, past people pleasing and past giving a shiny fuck what anyone thinks of me. I am now at the stage of feeling sick at the thoughts of the person I could have been had I not been minimised and put in my place all my life. No matter what I have done it would never have been enough and I see that now and I was chasing the approval of people who quite honestly are beneath me. I have done every single thing alone and independently and I am now proud of what i have achieved alone but my god can you imagine what I could have achieved with familal support? My child will never ever feel less than. Never. In fact since cutting out them toxins in my life (family) he has come on in leaps and bounds. Within months of him not seeing my mother he was getting better grades in school and school reports started coming back saying how he was a much more confident child and the ONLY thing I did was cut off my mother and her henchmen. Makes ye think. Kids are far more clued in than we give them credit for.

Sounds like jealousy. But then if your mum was scapegoated or emotionally neglected then you can see how the ego grew to protect her. You became the outlet for all her shame. It’s all so sad. My mother in law is an only child and I feel she hates me. From what I’ve leaned over the years she had a very neglectful upbringing. All her self protection behaviours are selfish and ugly. She speaks of others with distain if they are bigger characters than her. Any sense that she is less then and you can see the poison seep out of her, very under the radar and almost like it’s not there but it so is. I’m not sure if anyone is immune from the ego protection. If you are autistic it’s likely in the family. They may have developed different coping mechanisms to deal with it. They may have been destined to be this way regardless, sounds like a perfect storm. I think I’m beginning to see it more as self protection instead of personal attack, the ego muscle has just had too much time at the gym and they neglected others day!

@Genuineweddingone I don’t know if you have seen king of the hill? Hank’s dad always belittled him and treated him like he wasn’t good enough (pushing him to be manlier and to be the best athletically etc) but with his grandson, who is arguably less masculine and athletic, he just sings his praises and acts like he can do no wrong.

I know it’s a cartoon, but the dynamic is definitely something you might see in real families. In fact, I think it’s common for grandparents to be much less critical of grandchildren than they were of their own children, which feels like further rubbing salt in the wound to the now adult child.

Maybe it’s because they’ve matured, maybe it’s because they have a lot more time to decompress that they can handle the little things better than they could when it was all the time with their own kids. Maybe they’re even doing it on purpose. My MiL’s mum was a wonderful grandma, and my MiL has NPD. But I do believe that her mum was dismissive of my MiL’s real
feelings and only praised her for her appearance and her outward achievements.

But now, MiL is actively hostile, and I could also talk for hours about her behaviour - sometimes I’ll say the odd thing in real life and I can tell people don’t believe me or think I’m being dramatic and it’s actually the teeny tiny tip of the iceberg. But she just seems so much worse than her own mum was. I’m not sure what makes the biggest difference to their development, but it’s not as simple as a + b = c (otherwise, my own DH would be like her or worse than her, and he’s not, so there is something personal going on too).

@Mywhitedress I’m glad the conversation went well overall! I know it might not be the absolute best outcome you might have hoped for (that she would completely understand and you’d find yourselves both on the same page) but it’s a big improvement from where you felt your relationship was before. I haven’t pushed any further for my DSis to see things the way I see them, I suppose I’m seeing it like in therapy, a therapist won’t push their patient to see things a certain way, they have to let them get there on their own. So, I’ve said what I think (fairly briefly) and I’ll let her process it for now.

I don’t know anyone who’d be jealous of a grandparent doting on their grandchildren. I certainly wouldn’t, form a fab relationship then take them for sleepovers…boom alone time, win win! They jealous because they believe attention is finite and they need it all for themselves. Like a toddler but also like black and white thinking but this can be taught. They really are just under developed and the sad thing is no one taught them so they could develop when they were young.

@Genuineweddingone wow, that is amazing about your son. Shocking really, the effects his wider family had on him, but great that he has come on so quickly when you took him out of the situation. Just goes to show how it affects you if it’s your own parents, and all throughout your life.

@Eeriefairy I think people often have children to fill a hole in themselves, so when the child doesn’t fill this hole, simply because it can’t as it is a child, or because of their personality, the parent then blames the child. Whereas when they have grandchildren, they are further removed from them and they see these children as fun rather than having a role to fulfil. Because their own child was and is already fulfilling the role of hole filler, shame bearer etc.

I definitely agree with this. I know people who live through their children who in RL are extremely insecure. They post relentlessly about their kids achievements. Everyone is proud of their children, we all love them whatever they achieve. It becomes a source of esteem because if the kids are achieving they get a hit for being the parent. Poor kids aren’t allowed to makes mistakes and try new things or any issues swept under the rug. They use their children to fill a hole they can’t fill themselves, they actively promote their children. I can’t imagine being a scapegoat and hated simply because you can’t fulfil this role. My mum was always unwell so childhood was scary and unpredictable and pushed aside a bit.

@Eeriefairy yes, I am happy about how the chat went, that talk was long overdue and I finally feel like the elephant in the room has left. But like you, I am letting my sister come to her own conclusions in time, she might or might not start to see it. I could almost hear her cogs turning when I told her certain things, so we’ll see.

@MustIgo yes, the grandchildren somehow don’t reflect badly on the grandparents. Any negative characteristics (in the grandparents’ eyes) are a reflection of the parent in their eyes, ie of their own scapegoat child..

@Mywhitedress I definitely know what you mean. In the book I read recently, it talks about a certain behaviour in a child confronting the parent with their own feelings of failure and inadequacy, for which they then punish the child. So, a child acts out and the parent sees this as a reflection on themselves which they don’t want to face. But, with a grandparent-grandchild relationship there is always someone else to blame, it doesn’t make them personally look bad if their grandchild does something “bad”, so they don’t care at all.

@MustIgo, I didn’t really mean jealousy of the grandchild. I meant, for example, if a parent had come down on you like a ton of bricks for certain behaviours, and then they smile and make excuses and act like it would be unreasonable to punish the child for the behaviour they punished their own children for etc. I’m not saying the parents would want to punish their children for it, but it can be like salt in the wound when you grew up with a certain parent and now they’re like a different person where their grandchildren are concerned.

Ah yeah sorry. Grandparents are known for letting many things slip they wouldn’t have for their own kids. Most people laugh about it but I can see that must be hard when it’s a narc involved. They need to be seen as good grandparents though so the image doesn’t slip. Easy to blame the parent if they grandkids are fine. They know what they are doing!

I was thinking about the term abuse and how it gets interpreted wrongly. Abuse is really just the misuse of a relationship. Using kids as your source of self esteem and identity or emotional supper is still an misuse of the relationship and therefore abuse. In my head abuse is something physical or purposeful but all of this stuff is abusive that we talk about.

@MustIgo It was the opposite for me. I have achieved highly all of my academic life, achieved outside of that yet no matter how well I did I was 'brought down a peg or two' by my mother. I could win a nobel peace prize and it would be wrong. My sister in stark contrast could be in the guinness world records for the longest fart and my mother would celebrate it to death. I was never praised, never been told she was proud of me so I go the opposite way for my child.

@Genuineweddingone Kids are far more clued in than we give them credit for. Definitely, they feel everything, even if they don’t understand it rationally. This is another reason why narc or immature parents can’t cope with their children in a normal, loving way. Children notice everything, even if they don’t realise it or hide it. They are like a mirror. I certainly notice my child getting low when I am, or acting up more when I am stressed, so imagine a parent full of self-doubt or rage, and the child mirroring all their feelings back at them, that they then have to deal with as a parent. Not going to end well, is it?

Haha on the farts! I got half way through a PHD then life kind of got in the way a bit. For me I care less about achievements and more that they are happy, decent, adventurous humans. I look at some of these kids who are pushed to achieve and they seem so unhappy. They miss out on an awful lot of childhood.

It's interesting to read people's experiences of their difficult parents as grandparents. These things really do ripple out across generations. My father never met my kids because we were estranged long before that, but my mother has. She was all over the first like a rash to the point where it was weird. Trying to make DD prefer her to me, telling me I didn't know what the hell I was doing, constantly wanting to have DD stay with her without me. It all fell apart when I had my second child and my mother had less than no interest. I challenged her on it and that was basically the end of he relationship with both children, because when she was told treat them fairly or don't bother, she decided she wouldn't bother.

I heard 'too big for your boots' more than once as a child.

@MustIgo yes, definitely in an ordinary family it’s just typical the grandparents suddenly tolerate anything and everything from their grandchildren, and you might be happy that they are that way and that they might “spoil” the grandchildren. It’s normal/good. But a totally different thing with abusive parents and even another way they can stick the knife in - it’s only you that they will criticise and belittle. Again, not that we would want our children to be criticised and belittled just that it’s another example of being seen as less-than ourselves.

I read something a while ago that basically said that a lot of people can't bear it when they see their children getting better treatment than they did and so bully their children out of jealousy and spite. Made a lot of sense to me.

Yeah screw that, disrespect the parents loose access to the grandchildren. That goes for all relationships. Im all for letting them have a relationship and stepping back from my experience but disrespect is not tolerated! I have told my H about the comments and we have in the past drastically reduced contact.

That’s terrible. I wonder if that might partly explain my MiL and Genuinewedding’s experiences? I think in my MiL’s case, she had children to keep men and then resented them when their dad left anyway. So now her life was restricted and it hadn’t even got her what she wanted.

Also her mum never complained about any aspect of having kids, and had nothing but positives to say (as I said, even if those weren’t all well-rounded or truly affirming of the individual or emotions of her children). But that maybe led MiL to be blindsided by the actual work and selflessness required to be a parent. She wasn’t cut out for it at all.

@MustIgo in my case, my mum ended up being just as critical of my DDs, especially favouring the eldest as she had always seemed to have a favourite when I was growing up. It was her being the same with mine that has made me distance myself. I would have felt so different if she had been the typical doting grandparent and nothing like how she was with me.

They all twats….just rinse and repeat!

Hi, I’d like to join this thread too. It’s taken me until my mid forties and peri menopause to come to the end of my ability to tolerate controlling and guilt tripping from my parents. It’s very complex, my mum has bipolar and my dad is most certainly a narcissist. I have struggled my whole life with parentification at a young age, and now my dad has cancer the demands are becoming unmanageable and having had very poor boundaries for many years, it feels too late. I was sworn at in front of my 9 year old last week and then told I was out of control and it was my fault, I caused it and I’ve upset my mother. I feel so sad and worn down and have registered for some taking therapy but I need to compartmentalise for the time being and it’s so tough?!