Would you stay after 9 years and no proposal?

[TwoLittleDogs]

Long time lurker, first time poster. I don't have any close friends or family that I feel comfortable speaking to about this, hence why I'm reaching out here for opinions and advice. I've been with my partner for over 9 years now, lived together most of that time, brought a house together (no children). I've brought up the topic of proposal and marriage countless times over the years, so he knows its something I have wanted, and he has always given the golden answer that he wants that too, but there has been no plans or action. We also went on a dream holiday a few years ago and I honestly thought he was going to propose then, but he didn't, and I've been growing resentment ever since. Something also happened this week which has just brought me to boiling point on the topic. My biological clock is also ticking, so I know I have to really decide what I want out of life. Any advice greatly appreciated.

To be frank with you, if you don't make it crystal clear. you'll be writing this same post in ten year's time except you'll not be able to have children.

He's not going to do anything unless you have a full discussion with him and ask directly when you are getting married and when you are going to try to conceive.

At least you'll know where you stand and don't accept any vague wishy-washy answers.

I can really relate to this! Without the happy ending sadly. Been with DP 13 years, engaged for 8. 2 kids, a house! But he will not even discuss a wedding (tried offering all variations of a wedding!). My sister met someone and was married within 18 months. I can't think about it too much because it makes me feel like I'm having something akin to a panic attack. I know this sounds dramatic but unless you have lived like this then you have no idea how it feels.

I think that the 'marriage' issue is secondary to wanting children- together.
You need to get your head around whether you want children or not.

You sound unsure. And at 35-ish you really should know.

The crux of this is does he want (more) children and with you?
Is this once bitten? Divorced, children he sees as a part time dad, maintenance...?

IMO you've made it clear. You don't need to propose. You've pretty much done that by showing him engagement rings!

I am shocked at how you showed him rings you like! Hardly subtle and pretty much a proposal. But you don't need a ring. You need a date at the registry office.

If you're 34-36 (mid 30s) your clock is ticking fast.

So if you really want a family you have to get an honest answer from him, or move on and not waste a second.

You need to ask him outright if he sees you having a future together, with children.

Hmm, difficult one.
I invested six years in a relationship before I pushed the "let's get married or what's the point?" thing.
He agreed, we got married & went on to have kids but ultimately the marriage failed.
I don't regret it because we were happy at first and I don't regret my kids at all of course but I sometimes wonder what would have happened if I hadn't forced the issue.
Looking back, I don't think he wanted marriage or kids really; he just passively went along with it all & I think he didn't want to lose me at the time.

@Colourfulduvets My experience is similar. By the time I was 30 we’d been together 5 years and had bought a house together. He was perfectly happy to discuss babies/the future etc but no sign of marriage. And no way was I having a baby without being married. So I really pushed for a wedding, he caved in because I don’t think that (at the time) he wanted to lose me. But 13 months later he began the affair that ended it all. As the poster above says, I sometimes wonder what would have happened had I not forced the issue. I think he wanted kids without marriage, and how do you ever compromise on that one?

I soon met my new DH, who proposed after 6 weeks. We have been happily married for nearly 20 years.

This is the real issue IMO.

First off, I couldn't be with anyone who can't talk about uncomfortable things. There are many uncomfortable parts to relationships, children, family life, and they just fester if you can't discuss them as a couple or you're the one left trying to manage everything alone and feeling overwhelmed instead of working as a team. You can't just opt out of the bits of life you don't like.

Secondly, if getting married is a topic he feels uncomfortable about, and money or social anxiety aren't likely reasons, that's heartbreaking for you. You should be with someone who is excited about the idea of marrying you, not something they go out of their way to even avoid talking about. How and why is that ever going to change? You think he's going to wake up one day and switch on a different personality?

You already know what kind of father he is. He won't be different to ones he has with you than his existing children. Don't fool yourself he would be different.

What it all boils to is, is this bloke good enough for you for life?

He doesn't sound great from what you've said.

But if you're deeply in love with him, would you be OK accepting a life with him and no marriage?

Is marriage a dealbreaker?

I don't think you should force the issue, I think you should either decide to stay and accept that, letting go of resentment. Or leave, and find someone keen for marriage and kids with you, (possibly risking not finding that).

But a half life where it's almost out of habit that you're together seems a bit of a waste.

Thank you for this - I agree he probably thinks that we already live together like a married couple, so he's content with that while I want more. He also doesn't correct people when they call me his wife, so it creates an awkward situation for me where I have to step in and correct them. I've also had people respond with 'well common law wife' which is bullsh*t.

My post isn't "weird". This is not about a sex conversation. This is about a couple and their future. One would imagine that this would be a joint decision, after discussion, not shut down by one party.
Have a read of all the OP's posts, because that does really help with understanding the situation here.

The language you use around your relationship doesn't make it sound healthy. He refuses to talk about anything that might make him uncomfortable, you describe getting up the courage to talk to him about things that should just be easy and commonplace in a relationship.
Get out of this one OP.
We didn't get engaged quickly, but started dating at 25 so quite young, we'd discussed priorities and that saving for a joint family sized home was the first (I already owned a one bed flat with a mortgage but that made it easier to save), I was very very clear that whilst I wanted children of I could have them, I wouldn't do so without being married. It took us five years to save for the house, renovations , DH proposed just after we had our offer accepted on our house, and then another year and a half to save for a wedding. I was never worried about those conversations, it had to pluck up the courage to talk to him, nor did he avoid difficult topics (other than money initially but that was nipped in the bud before we ever lived together or we wouldn't have loved together)

Yes this is what I think to. I also have a good job and we both own the house. But yes, if I was to have children with him I would want the protection that being a spouse brings.

I think I would be quite concerned with his inability to communicate on big issues. So you can't sit down to talk to him, and have to send him texts which he can then ignore? What happens if you did have children and needed to discuss uncomfortable things, what happens then?

I'm not sure legally committing to someone like that would be for me. Margins vary, of course! But he sounds quite avoidant and that will only worsen if kids came along.

I would stay without the proposal, but if I wanted children and he didn't I would leave.

Reading you updates, it comes over as this is a comfy set up for him.
All the perks of marriage but none of the actual responsibilities.

Decide what you want.
You're on the fence over kids.
Do you want HIS children? Does he want children with YOU?

I also struggle to talk to him about these things as he doesn't like to talk about anything that makes him uncomfortable. It ends up with me sending him messages which I know he reads, but it's like he acts like he's never seen them.

These are hard questions but stop sending texts or whatever over such important issues. That's just ridiculous.

Choose a time, tell him you need to talk and thrash it all out.

How does he parent his existing DC and how long was he living with them before the relationship with their mother broke down? That should give you some massive clues about how he will parent any kids you have.

You said that you would love marriage and children if things were right. But they aren't right with this man. You are diminishing yourself by staying with a man who simply isn't that bothered. It's a massive concern that he is unable to talk about things that are challenging - and by challenging i imagine this is where you share your wants and needs and he isn't mature and caring enough to be open and honest that he doesn't want what you do. This sounds like you'd rather a crap relationship than none at all.

But yes, if I was to have children with him I would want the protection that being a spouse brings.

It doesn't bring that much protection if you're both joint owners of the house. If you earned more he could end up claiming maintenance off you!
men have to pay maintenance, married or not.

I'm sorry to hear this but I'm glad you got your beautiful children.

See, this is also my worry. He is definitely the type where he would just agree to placate me.

I hope you bought the house as tenants in common...

A PP mentioned earlier that you “are a passenger in your own life” you are “making do” and doing yourself a massive disservice.
it also seems you are assuming that if you are not with your current partner that you will never be with someone else and your life will be the same as it is now except that he will not be in it.
He is not the narrative for how your life will pan out - you are. You won’t know how wonderful it can be until you make it happen.

See, this is also my worry. He is definitely the type where he would just agree to placate me.

Is he?

You've showed him rings FGS!
If that isn't saying what you want, then what is?

In your gut, you know this isn't working.
After 9 years you're not able to talk to him openly about what you want and your future.

What happened with his first marriage (if he is divorced)?

He sounds like a man who won't communicate.

I'm definitely one of those...

If he wanted to marry and have children with you, he would have said so long ago, sorry. The situation as-is is convenient for him.

How is the relationship working for you? Do you really want kids enough to make a massive lifestyle change? As an older woman looking back, I'd take the relationship over kids any day. Pickings are slim out there and after 40 it's really difficult to find a halfway decent man.

You need to figure out what you want the rest of your life to be like. The next 25 years are going to fly by faster than you expect.

If he wanted to marry and have children then I'd have thought he would have proposed by now to be honest. What happened this week to make you question it all more?

I don’t think he is much of a partner tbh. He avoids things he knows are important to you, and just pootles along knowing full well that you are unhappy with a situation and your time is running out re kids. If he has kids already I bet my house he does not want any more which is why he is so avoidant on issues that matter to you.

I think you have to be pretty forceful and say ‘this is what i want and if you are not on board I am gone’. I am in my 50s and have too many friends who waited too long, missed their chance fir children, and the relationship broke up anyway. Then the man has gone on to meet, marry and have children well into their 40s (and at nearly 60 in one case) while my friends have frankly missed out on what really mattered to them.

Well, that's your answer isn't it?

Low self esteem.

You think you don't deserve better.

You get what you deserve. Raise the bar and attract men who value you.
But you need to value yourself first.