No longer blindsided by H

[Gingerloaf]

This is a second thread - first one was ‘blindsided by H’

A couple of weeks has passed since that thread ended and suffice to say the shit show is a gift that keeps on giving.

An attempt was made at face to face discussions about ‘us’ and there were tentative noises from H although his concern for how OW would take his leaving her seemed to occupy his mind rather more than it should.

A period of time to reflect and H has decided he is required to look after his mental health - it’s somewhat bizarre that the perpetrator decides that he is the victim and must be protected at all costs. So I readily agreed to some non contact ( more for myself than him) it took less than 2 weeks for the next contact to be made.
Once again the me, me, me dialogue was started. There was also a completely useless email but hey, we have to show we are ‘reasonable’ even if all other behaviours are that of a small child.

Plenty of things afoot for me - busy calendar ahead.
What has been pleasing is the righteous anger of other woman in my age range who are now seeing this pattern play out in so many long term relationships. This is now taking the form of politely confronting OW and asking WTAF was she thinking??
Reputations are being bruised shall we say - and frankly they have both had a very polite and easy run of it up until now.
There is a lot of evidence that the relationship is strained but that was always predicted and very sad considering this little diversion has cost us a relationship of almost 40 years.

So no reconciliation, not even a whiff of ‘I am sorry’ and certainly no adult / reasonable discussions.

Looking forward to hearing from
@Goldcushions2
@MillyCentTap
@shamedbysiri
@Diarygirlqueen
@Acrossthepond55
@Fannyfiggs

I have noticed an awful lot of tarot card reading reels on FB - apparently he’s coming in with a communication and a desire to reconnect ( according to the spirits) Time will tell! Who says FB is not listening to us??

Obviously I mean DC not DV ( Freudian slip)

any advice re dealing with covert narcissism especially at this point will be much welcome

Not a professional but a 60 year old, married 32 years, expatriate lifestyle for many years, professional career, and basically stories coming out my ears of the shit that men get up to!

A few badly behaved women along the way, but overwhelmingly it is men, 20/1 in my experience.

It is not difficult to imagine how you are feeling.
Fury at him and fury at yourself.

The truth is though, and this is very important, you probably wouldn't have done anything differently.
Because you loved him, your children and were trying to protect the family you had built.

Your children's stability is a credit to you, and will remain with them in the future.
Your sacrifice was a gift to them.
That is your legacy and it is powerful one.

They will only come to fully appreciate it as they age, form long term relationships and perhaps have children of their own.

Perhaps his denial to himself will remain steadfast, but it is hard to imagine that he will never have moments when he feels regret over forever losing the respect and regard his children once held for him.

His relationship with your children is absolutely nothing to do with you and I wouldn't ever be a facilitator of it.

He will move on from her when her appeal and money are depleted.
He certainly isn't likely to be her carer.
He will look around for his next mark.

Who knows what she will be like and I wouldn't have any part in encouraging your children to agree to be a part of this new chapter.

If they choose to be involved with him, that is their business, but I wouldn't give them any perceived blessing.

Their relationship with him going forward is on him and their choice.

I think you are doing great.
Honestly 12 months from now, you won't recognise the woman you are today.

However devastating this is today, you have a great future ahead of you.

Even the annoyance of the pension will fade as you embrace your future.

Have you thought of a life coach?
For career advice.
Could you pivet into a bit of consulting, part time work when the divorce is final?

You just might enjoy it, if it was on your terms.

The only advice I would have is to continue exactly as you are.

Deny him oxygen.
One word replies to emails.
Offer nothing but the bare minimum.
Passive, calm and measured at all times.
Actively avoid him.

He needs a reaction. He is desperate for the oxygen of contact and the familiarity of you, even if he doesn't fully realise it.

His life experience and history with her is zero. She doesn't have children and doesn't know his.

Remember he ultimately had his hand forced by you.
He wanted to have his cake and eat it.

Luxuriate in your circle over the holidays.
Allow friends to post an odd flattering picture of you all having a lovely time if it gives you satisfaction.

That will land.
Let him see you thriving from afar.

Next year will be a much better place for you.

Bloody hell, Ginger, even more similarities. My replacement is also older than me and has (probably had now) money.

I was beginning to suspect my husband was a narcissist because of some of his behaviour and things he said but I couldn't look it up very easily because he 'hinted' that he could see everything I looked at on the computer. Once he had gone I was able to do a bit more research. I found a list of 14 narcissistic traits and he ticked (from my point of view) all but one.

Knowing what I know now I can see the narcissism was there from the start but it really ramped up once he retired, I assume partly because he was no longer getting the attention he got from his colleagues.

I agree that the realisation is a shock, when I saw what I had been enduring throughout the marriage I was really quite astounded.

I was going to say it takes a lot of healing from but maybe acceptance is a better word. You can't fix what they did to you but if you can understand the reasoning behind it it helps, it did for me anyway. Dr Ramani on YouTube is very good.

It definitely ran in his family too - his mother was an awful woman, seemed lovely to begin with, as per, but she soon showed her true colours; his sibling is also terrible for the attention and nasty but can appear charming when required.

Grey rock is the way forward in communications but I think you've already nailed that 💪

Sorry you had to see that wretched FB post @Gingerloaf. Do screenshot it if you can and keep it in abeyance. You never know when you may need it. Evidence, proof and that.

Look after your fantastic self. x

I wonder what would happen if he were to end the relationship with the OW? From what you've said, Ginger, I don't think she'll take rejection very well.

There is a strong temptation to give into their manipulative tactics, you just have to grey rock everything. And remember they won’t ever take the high road unless it suits their agenda!

There is a book called ‘The passive agressive covert narcissist’ by Debbie Mirza. (I found a free downloadable version online)

Honestly I can’t recommend it enough. It was healing (in a very uncomfortable way) in that it basically read like a script of things that were done and said to me.

I know people trot this line out a lot but just a reminder - It’s NOT you. Unless you were a truly awful partner (and you would know if you were) then his behaviour and all the things he has said and done is entirely on HIM.

@Gingerloaf - My parents were both narcissists. Mum
overt and Dad covert. Dad was much nastier to deal with. Both were obsessed with what they felt they were owed. Dad was competitive, sneaky, manipulative and miserly. (Not just with money, but kindness and affection.) He was the puppeteer and Mum was his marionette.
You need to continue the Cold Rock Technique and live happily ever after. It will fuck him up more than anything. (If you meet anyone else he will take this as affront because this will be something you are doing to HIM.)
I can assure you that you can expect sneaky, underhanded behaviour from him. He will accuse you of cheating, lying, professional misconduct - you name it. He will attempt to blackmail you to “win” the divorce. Even if he is awarded 50/50 he will feel like he has been ripped off. I would be very careful about hidden cameras and microphones in your home. Even watch out for a PI following you around. Covert is their modus operandi. If he has any dirt on you it will be dragged out.

Can completely attest the cold rock technique works a charm on people like these

Unfortunately I have to work in the same building as my entitled narcissistic ex who blew up my life with ‘the script’ so I see him in passing.

I went cold rock. I got a huge promotion, a masters degree, lost 12kgs and had the biggest glow up ever (initially most of that was fuelled by spite, but I’ve maintained all of it and continue to improve)

Initially he would just stomp past
me staring straight ahead like I didn’t exist. 14 months on, he can’t even walk past me in a corridor. He spins on his heels showcasing quite an impressive pirouette and dives into the nearest doorway to run away. Pathetic behaviour from a 45 year old
doctor. I just walk on by smiling……

Have tried to find The Cold Rock Technique, but can't locate it.

Any links/explanation?
Is it the same as Grey Rock?

Every day is a school day😁

It's Grey Rock technique. I've not heard of cold rock but imagine same principle.

Oh my God @BadgerHill , what a fanny! 😆

There are so many incredible, intelligent women on this thread. I am amazed every day at the cameraderie and empathy & support given, not only to the fabulous @Gingerloaf, but to each other and everyone else who's reading.

I do wish that you (Ginger) could covertly, secretly, in code, drop his FB name and we could all comment what a beautiful picture of mother and son. 😉

One day soon you'll wake up and feel nothing for him. And that'll be the day you're finally free from him and his shitty behaviour.

Sending you huge hugs, love and strength ❤️

You are all very kind - unfortunately I bumped into him today
he said some nasty things I don’t have the energy to repeat and tapped his head and I said yeah I heard you had started a rumour I was crazy but whatever. My laughing at him might have been a mistake but at the time it felt good
He knows I was a problem solver and so he has done things so I can’t problem solve my way out - honestly no energy to explain
My friend has now said just use the solicitor - and I will
Other friends are now aware I do t want to even talk about him
He is using every trick going to besmirch me - the smear campaign people talk about so I am protecting myself for now

I cannot convey how much this thread means to me - you are all amazing
If you suspect anyone has a covert narcissist around - help them, it’s awful

I'm so sorry that you're going through this @Gingerloaf . Well done to you for responding the way you did.

Trying to besmirch you is how this type of person operates. All you can do is to speak the truth. It will be enough. People will see him for what he is.

Well done for laughing at the shit.

Matter of time b4 the honeymoon is over.

Revenge is best served cold.

What a prat.

I tend to think if people post loved up photos on FB that it's a sign things aren't all rosy. My friend's DH posts photos of them just after they've had a row or something to placate her.

I'm glad you're okay OP. More than okay, thriving actually.

I nc a lot btw can't remember what name I posted under on your first thread but glad I found you again.

I’m pleased you laughed at him. Must have been awful being in that position. My fight or flight would have kicked in for sure. What a dick! He’s attempting to bring you down to his level, so it’s time to soar @Gingerloaf

I am so sorry to read this.
This must be so painful and distasteful for you.
People CAN read between the lines.

Imagine behaving like this......
.......speaking about the mother of his children in such terms is really shameful.

I am so sorry.

Thank you all - taken a sleeping tablet ( don’t worry doctor has rationed them)
I did say to him he was game playing and smiled at him - this was followed by an epic email - but I knew it would. I didn’t want him to see me shaken.
His need to annihilate is stunning - in such a short space of time he has decided to do his worst to the woman he has been with so long and mother of his kids
I really hope karma is real - everyone says it gets better I really hope that’s true

I’m so sorry @Gingerloaf , that must have been horrible. Your friend is right, just go through the solicitor now. Protect your own mental health, it’s great that you laughed but it must have been terrible to go through.
It’s chilling how these men can just do a personality flip and believe their own bullshit. I can’t believe he’ll be able to hide this side of himself from the OW forever, he’s clearly in an unstable place himself if he’s reduced to trying to devalue and insult you to make himself feel better. Vile. Just vile.
Hold your head up and grey rock him now, he doesn’t need any more interactions to feed his need for attention. It reeks of his insecurity and anger that you’re not prostrate with grief and begging him to come back. It almost sounds like he wants to reduce you to tears to make himself feel wanted and missed or superior in some way. Reactions like his usually stem from fear, his posturing is bravado, he’s burned his bridges now so he knows he’s got to live with the consequences.

His need to annihilate is him not being able to face what he’s done. If he annihilates you and your reputation then he’s the victim, he hasn’t done anything wrong, he becomes the abused not the abuser. Don’t listen to a word of it, it’s all just a psychological device, and grey rock him.

Ginger I have read all your posts and I'm seeing you are going down a bad route on here tbh.
I'm going to preface my post by saying I have too been where you are, 25 years together and he cheated.
I recognise the pain and the desperate attempts of trying to understand the what's and whys of it all.. BUT I get the feeling you are still stuck in the mindset he was somehow led astray by this woman.
No, he wasn't, from reading about what you have said he wanted out, he wanted a different life for himself. Now that's very hard to understand when you are blindsided I know!
But , all these posts about how he will be regretting, he's not okay, he's living a crap life now just feed into you thinking he's going to one day wake up and see he's made a terrible mistake.
He might, nobody on here knows him, and the absolute ridiculous assumptions about him are not helping..
You said he always wanted a more chilled out life once he has retired, he wanted peaceful holidays not adventurous ones, he had his own idea of what retirement, the next phase of his life looks like..
Did you discuss this with him? Perhaps he's just gone, I'm out, I want a different life.
And as much as it kills us, he is absolutely entitled to that
You say in hindsight 39 years you look back and it's all his narcissm.
That's not the whole story.
I had to listen and accept some hard truths about my own role in my relationship, trust me I didn't want to!
But as I actually left my own pride at being left behind I could see my OH had some valid points..
I'm not saying this to undermine your pain, I absolutely know that pain
What I am saying is the posters who are literally making stuff up about how he will be feeling, what his motivations are, are doing it from their own experiences, it doesn't help you because it's not your Husband .
Honestly you need to accept this is where he wants to be, if he fucks it up, so be it, that's his and Budgies problem,but crucially you have to stop playing the scenarios around in your head.
Yes it might work with him and Budgie. No it might not.
Where YOU need to work to be is it DOESN'T MATTER!
Stop trying to work his motivation out and definitely stop letting people on here egg you on to trying to work his motivation out.
It's done, you are important, not retribution, not revenge, you healing.
And definitely don't get in-between your kids
They have a Dad, yes a Dad with clay feet but still a Dad. Nothing good comes from using your children, I know you are not bur some of the chat got worryingly that way..
As I said Ginger, stop giving him headspace, look at healing yourself and the chips will fall how they do. All this chat over the last few days of how he is thinking, how he's thinking! What a massive waste of energy.

I came to say much the same thing. It's pure projection. What a wanker.