Do my parents in law want to kidnap my baby? Need advice

[Saskia98]

For context, I’m a FTM to a 3 month old. My partner and I are both 25. I’m English and my partner and his parents are Romanian (they’ve lived in England for past 15 years). LO has partners surname and as we are not yet married I don’t have his surname at the moment. This means LO has same surname as my partner and his parents but not me. LO will be having a British passport but partner also wants him having a Romanian passport so it’s easier for when he wants to travel in EU. I don’t quite know the benefits of having 2 passports, so any information on this would be appreciated.

I’ve posted about my parents in law previously, (to put shortly, my mil has made continuous ‘jokes’ about taking LO to their country without me, she’s made ‘jokes’ that he’s her baby not mine, her and fil have told my partner to break up with me throughout our relationship, even when I was pregnant, and would say to me “you look after the baby when he’s in your stomach and we’ll look after him when he’s here”. His mum constantly kept taking over with LO, even saying she needs to do his bath or at least supervise me incase I get water in his ears. These are just a few issues I’ve had with them. It honestly felt like she only wanted me out of the picture and to be a surrogate for my own child so she can have him. This is never going to happen. I finally set boundaries around a month ago and we only see them once every week or 2 now. My partner sticks up for me for the most part on the situation but we’ve had many arguments in private as he doesn’t see what his mums done wrong and think I’m being unreasonable.

I need some advice on the following situation as I’m TERRIFIED that one day they’ll try to kidnap my son. My partner and I was round their house with LO and we were talking about passport pictures for baby. FIL asks how long it takes for LO’s passport to arrive (we haven’t applied for one yet). He then asked if nowadays it would be his own separate passport or an extension from the parents one. We said a separate passport and he asked what if one parent wanted to take LO away without the other parent. My MIL states how you need permission from the other parent to take them away. I don’t know how she would know this unless she’s researched into it and my FIL asking this is the first place out of the blue is concerning to me.

Is there any way my partners parents can take LO away without me or partner? Can they just pretend they’re his parents as they have his surname and are in early 40’s so could be young enough to pass as having a baby. Can they fake a permission letter? What documents are needed when taking a baby abroad and what checks are done? I need some reassurance or advice as I don’t know how to approach this.

Yes that’s what I was thinking too. His parents will most likely have three details so I’m not sure if it’s worth getting a passport incase they were to try and get one first and leave it at my parents.

I don't know, but could they still get a Romanian passport without you, as the father is Romanian, whether or not the baby already has a British passport?

Whilst I do personally think it’s unlikely they plan to kidnap your child, I agree that is a risk. I don’t know anything about Romanian citizenship but a family friend’s husband kidnapped their children recently using passports for his home country that he obtained without her knowing (she has them back now).

That’s another question I have, I’ve seen some people say partner and I would both need to go in person to get this. I don’t really see the point in having a Romanian passport for him at the moment as if it’s for ‘skipping queues’ at the airport, as I have a British passport I wouldn’t be able to go in the EU queue. I think it would cause me more worry if he was to have one and I would be happy for LO to decide when he’s older if he would want both but not sure how to bring this up to my partner as he wants him to have both.

It depends. I was actually stopped at passport control in the Netherlands because I had the permission letter from his dad but forgot the photocopy of his dad's passport to go with it. We had to sit in the side room of shame while they called his dad and checked things online, then had a little chat with my very young son. Then we could go through. On the other hand I was going through passport control at another airport once and went to show the permission letter and the lady just chuckled and said "oh, you don't look like a kidnapper to me". So it massively varies by staff, airport etc. Probably also the mannerisms of the parent and child as well.

I live in another country and my son has a British passport but not the passport of the country we live in (as he isn't eligible). Nonetheless, legally I am not allowed to just take him to live in the UK without his fathers agreement, and need a permission letter from his father to travel. That's because my son's customary place of residence is here, and under the Hague convention that's what matters - not their country. So a passport alone wouldn't give the grandparents extra leverage if they took him. Legally, if I took my son to the UK the UK authorities would not interfere in the custody dispute. They would deport us back to the resident country as the dispute would be for the family courts there to deal with (I have no intention of taking our son. Its just an example). SO the passport is a bit of a red herring. The main point about the Hague convention is

1. The definition of customary residence varies so if you are planning a long family break in Romania do check the length of time Romania considers to qualify and don't stay longer than that. Definitely don't agree to a "trial move there, we can go back to England if you don't like it."
2. If your In Laws did take your child to Romania then the authorities there would have responsibility to find them. It depends on whether you know their address or if they somehow have the resources/inclination to go into hiding. Unlikely but you hear of parents attempting this in the UK
3. This article: Application of Hague Convention on Children in Romania - HG.org suggest there are issues with how the convention is applied there but bear in mind that the scenario he outlined is where one legal parent has the child not the grandparents.

But (please also take legal advice on this) as far as I know none of this is influenced by the passport. So I wouldn't make that a hill to die on unnecessarily.

The only other downside to a Romanian passport would be if, once your child was 18, they introduced mandatory conscription. It wouldn't be the end of the world but it could technically make visiting there more awkward if he was potentially eligible. But that is a very abstract concern and wouldn't put me of.

I would actually rather apply for the passports all at the same time and keep them in your house. Then you would at least have warning if it suddenly disappeared. Whereas if they applied behind your back you wouldn't know it existed.
Also - it is possible the MiL is looking to split up you and your DH or would be happy if she could drive a wedge between you. I am not saying be a pushover but where something is important to your DH but of no disadvantage to you, don't let it become a source of conflict where without the in laws it wouldn't have been an issue.

@SneezedToothOut Does that clarify matters for you?

Doesn’t really matter to me. My daughter is on her third passport now.

Lol funny that, especially after all your posts on this thread.

Just trying to help the OP. 🤷🏻‍♀️

True. I guess it’s a good thing at least some of us can read the official guidance correctly, eh.

I hope they are only joking but I do not see the urgency of a passport if you are not planning a holiday yet. If you do get one I would keep it away from anyone but you. They want to ask to bring him on holiday to Romania at some point I can't see them planning to abduct him if they know your partner has no intention of moving back. If they know you have a passport could they just apply again claiming it was lost. They would not be giving you any hint of doing it if they were serious I would talk to your partner about your concerns. I would not be letting them take him on day trips or stay overnight for your own peace of mind. If they were crazy enough to try they would know probably not go from an airport in the uk. It would probably be a ferry to the Republic of Ireland and flight from there. They must know they are worrying you so I would watch out for them trying to put a strain on your relationship with your partner. They might think he would be more likely to move back if you were separated.

DM me your address and I’ll nominate you for an OBE.

That is terrible I am so glad it worked out for you and got him back I cannot imagine the worry. My school friend was taken to Nigeria at 13 and left there by her own parents. She was born in the uk one of the youngest of about 10 and she did not return till she was in her late twenties. The lovely bubbly girl came back a shell of herself none of her siblings were taken. She did not have a clue what they were planning she had no access to her passport and was living in a remote location. Not one of her older siblings tried to help her the reason she was taken was that the dad thought she was too westernised.

Passport and citizenship are two different things 🤯 My DC have a dual nationality but they only had a British passport until they were 12 and 15 respectively when I applied my EU country’s passport for them.

@Saskia98 , I’ve had a chance to look this up. For your DC to get his Romanian passport they first need to register his birth with the Romanian authorities. For this they don’t need you to attend in person (your husband could do it) but they would need your passport, birth certificate and marriage certificate. Perhaps make sure nobody can get at your passport and birth certificate?

The link takes you to the relevant info on the Romanian consultate’s page. It’s all in Romanian but hopefully you’re familiar enough with the language that you can get the gist of it with the help of google translate.

Finally I just wanted to say I haven’t bothered yet with my DC Romanian passports and I’m not sure them having the passports would make any difference to our travels to Romania. If you genuinely believe your in-laws would consider keeping DC away from you, they could use the British passport just as easily. As before, DC is already a Romanian citizen from birth, that isn’t affected in any way by them having a passport made.

But passport is prove of nationality, which is exactly why sometimes a passport is all you need.

Wouldn't it be better to just go and get some legal advice?

Thing is - your child is not just yours. You and your partner are both parens and your opinion/preference does not outweigh his.
Your child has two nationalities by birth.
You cant prevent him from claiming half of his heritage - because you don’t get along with inlaws.
You should not have had a child with someone from a different culture/country of this was going to be your attitude.

If you don't trust your partner to keep your child safe - separate. But he will have a right to have the child 50% of the time.

(PS - if your partner and children are EU citizens - you will be able to go with them through EU immigration queue in the airport. And it will be valuable)

To be honest, the other (very difficult) issues aside. If you don't want your child to get a Romanian passport because you are worried it will potentially be easier for your in laws to abduct him - then you are not BU to worry but get proper advice because my understanding is it won't make any difference. On the other hand, if you don't want him to get the passport because you just don't, or because you want him to be more British than Romanian somehow, you are being unreasonable. It isn't the baby's fault his grandparents are a nightmare and he deserves to have his fathers heritage as well as his mothers. It also sounds important to his father. It will be easier to stay a united front if you aren't fighting about stuff that doesn't really matter.

I don't think you are being unreasonable about anything else in your posts!