Do my parents in law want to kidnap my baby? Need advice

[Saskia98]

For context, I’m a FTM to a 3 month old. My partner and I are both 25. I’m English and my partner and his parents are Romanian (they’ve lived in England for past 15 years). LO has partners surname and as we are not yet married I don’t have his surname at the moment. This means LO has same surname as my partner and his parents but not me. LO will be having a British passport but partner also wants him having a Romanian passport so it’s easier for when he wants to travel in EU. I don’t quite know the benefits of having 2 passports, so any information on this would be appreciated.

I’ve posted about my parents in law previously, (to put shortly, my mil has made continuous ‘jokes’ about taking LO to their country without me, she’s made ‘jokes’ that he’s her baby not mine, her and fil have told my partner to break up with me throughout our relationship, even when I was pregnant, and would say to me “you look after the baby when he’s in your stomach and we’ll look after him when he’s here”. His mum constantly kept taking over with LO, even saying she needs to do his bath or at least supervise me incase I get water in his ears. These are just a few issues I’ve had with them. It honestly felt like she only wanted me out of the picture and to be a surrogate for my own child so she can have him. This is never going to happen. I finally set boundaries around a month ago and we only see them once every week or 2 now. My partner sticks up for me for the most part on the situation but we’ve had many arguments in private as he doesn’t see what his mums done wrong and think I’m being unreasonable.

I need some advice on the following situation as I’m TERRIFIED that one day they’ll try to kidnap my son. My partner and I was round their house with LO and we were talking about passport pictures for baby. FIL asks how long it takes for LO’s passport to arrive (we haven’t applied for one yet). He then asked if nowadays it would be his own separate passport or an extension from the parents one. We said a separate passport and he asked what if one parent wanted to take LO away without the other parent. My MIL states how you need permission from the other parent to take them away. I don’t know how she would know this unless she’s researched into it and my FIL asking this is the first place out of the blue is concerning to me.

Is there any way my partners parents can take LO away without me or partner? Can they just pretend they’re his parents as they have his surname and are in early 40’s so could be young enough to pass as having a baby. Can they fake a permission letter? What documents are needed when taking a baby abroad and what checks are done? I need some reassurance or advice as I don’t know how to approach this.

It certainly is not "BS". Just because your single experience is different to others, doesn't mean everyone else must be lying about their own experience. I've taken my DS out of the country every year since he was born and have been asked more than once to show his birth certificate, my marriage certificate and a letter of permission from his father.

Lax border guards don't mean rules don't exist. Airlines usually have their own requirements (like a letter of permission etc) for travelling alone with a child as well.

https://www.gov.uk/permission-take-child-abroad

OP, do not EVER let your child go to Romania without you. Why am I saying this? Because the laws for their own Romanian minor nationals travelling out of the country are much stricter than anywhere else in the EU. I speak from experience here. Due to the high rate of child trafficking that has historically taken place from Eastern Europe, Romanian police will only allow a Romanian child to fly / drive out of the country if BOTH parents are present, or if the non-present parent has signed a notarised document allowing their child to travel with the other parent out of the country. Not the signed forms / letters people are mentioning on this thread. Proper legal paperwork.

The reason your in-laws might seem so clued up about it, is because Romanian families that live abroad are very familiar with the issue of going on holiday with only one parent, and having to fly back home without the second parent present. It’s costly, it’s an administrative nightmare, and getting that notarised piece of paper can take a long time - it’s not just a signed letter one can fake.

Taking your child into Romania would not be an issue (especially if he shares a passport or surname with his dad / grandparents). The problem would be taking him back out of the country if he has a Romanian passport, even by you, unless you have notarised permission from the dad or you are both travelling together.

I am not making this up, and like I said I have personal experience of this issues due to multiple nationalities and passports in my closer family and having to deal with this specific country’s laws.

Whatever you do, do NOT let him travel without you. If you are going with him on a trip there, please ensure that you have the notarised authorisation to travel back before you go there.

But he doesn't need it for a good many years as he's hardly going to be travelling without the OP

This is also not true. I hold multiple passports. I only take all my passports when I travel into the USA - and that’s because on my ESTA application I declare my “other names” which correspond to my other passports (number and spelling of surnames differ slightly in each one). I travel internationally almost weekly and have never had an issue using only one (my main) passport.

You need your partner’s permission to change his name now.

This is just summarised from one website but there are many official sources out there explaining the complexities of Romanian border law and what it means with The Hague convention. Be careful OP.

I looked at what details are needed when applying for a child’s first passport and all that was needed are the parents of the child’s details, like place of birth, passport number etc, not the parent’s parents details if this makes sense?

I’ll share this for the third time.

As you were both born after 1983 and he was born outside the UK you need to provide grandparent details.

Depends if OP and her partner are British Citizens. If they both are then grandparent details aren’t needed (can’t see if OP said they both are but I might have missed it).

“If either parent was born after 1983”

they both were………

They do.

Im French, dh is British, dc born in the U.K.
dh Had to prove that he is British because his parents are British.

Thats because, eg he could have got British citizenship after dc was born. If you are British but born abroad, rules are different etc etc….

They wont do that for any passport afterwards.

Things will change again in October as you will need biometrics taken at the border. Regardless of how you enter the EU.
They will check much more carefully imo.

Btw re the Romanian passport

Your dc IS Romanian. Regardless or not he is getting a passport, he is Romanian. At the very least until he is 18yo. (After that, it will depend on whether Romania accepts dual citizenship etc….)

Yes. But if both of them are British, grand parent details are not needed…

If both of you are British, all you need are the passport details for both of you. Nothing else is required.

Strange that the official guidance says otherwise, eh. That’s straight off the passport office’s website.

No that’s exactly what the official guidance says... This is your own screenshot. Can you see the word “either”? It’s grandparents details OR parent’s proof of nationality. The key word is “either”.

I am a naturalised British citizen, born after 1983. I have applied for two child’s first passports. Both times, all I provided was my passport details and my husband’s passport number, and then someone to verify identify for the child (plus the birth certificate). Both times my husband didn’t even know I had applied for their passport until after I submitted the application.

I’m a British citizen, partner only has Romanian citizenship x

Yes when I looked at applying online, all whats needed is mine and my partners details (what I’m sure my PIL know) and someone to confirm our identity (not sure if PIL can forge this)

That’s right, only your passport details are needed. Nothing for your parents.

And as you say, his family will already know his parent’s details.

@GreenFairies as far as I know the only way to prove your British citizenship if you are born from British parents is through the grandparents. Ofc if you were naturalised etc… you then have documentation that Brits by birth dint have.

You’re right though that you dont need both parents details. Dh only filled our dcs passport request.

Fwiw, I didn’t need dh details/signature either from dh to apply for French passport (I’m French).
And I expect the OP’s dh wouldn’t need to either.

Or you have a British passport. By having a British passport you prove your nationality. I never provided my naturalisation certificate - I don’t even know where it is. My passport details are enough to show I’m British.

Any child born to British parents does not need to provide grandparent details. The parents’ passport details are enough.

@Saskia98 id look more carefully at applying for a passport because I know my details were never put on the form, only dh.
Thats for the British passport.

Your DP cannot apply for a passport for your dc by himself as he isn’t British.

Her child is English/British because he was born in England and his mum (OP) is also English. There are some countries that don't allow dual citizenship, but I think Romania isn't one of these. So the child is ethnically English and Romanian and potentially both for citizenship too. OP should ask her partner if they can change the baby's surname and double barrel it.

@Saskia98 As I said, I have applied for two British passports in recent years. I think pp are getting confused with other scenarios. All that was needed for a quick and smooth application were:

1. My child’s birth certificate.
2. My passport details which I entered on the form
3. My husband‘s passport details which I entered on the form
4. Someone to verify my child