Do my parents in law want to kidnap my baby? Need advice

[Saskia98]

For context, I’m a FTM to a 3 month old. My partner and I are both 25. I’m English and my partner and his parents are Romanian (they’ve lived in England for past 15 years). LO has partners surname and as we are not yet married I don’t have his surname at the moment. This means LO has same surname as my partner and his parents but not me. LO will be having a British passport but partner also wants him having a Romanian passport so it’s easier for when he wants to travel in EU. I don’t quite know the benefits of having 2 passports, so any information on this would be appreciated.

I’ve posted about my parents in law previously, (to put shortly, my mil has made continuous ‘jokes’ about taking LO to their country without me, she’s made ‘jokes’ that he’s her baby not mine, her and fil have told my partner to break up with me throughout our relationship, even when I was pregnant, and would say to me “you look after the baby when he’s in your stomach and we’ll look after him when he’s here”. His mum constantly kept taking over with LO, even saying she needs to do his bath or at least supervise me incase I get water in his ears. These are just a few issues I’ve had with them. It honestly felt like she only wanted me out of the picture and to be a surrogate for my own child so she can have him. This is never going to happen. I finally set boundaries around a month ago and we only see them once every week or 2 now. My partner sticks up for me for the most part on the situation but we’ve had many arguments in private as he doesn’t see what his mums done wrong and think I’m being unreasonable.

I need some advice on the following situation as I’m TERRIFIED that one day they’ll try to kidnap my son. My partner and I was round their house with LO and we were talking about passport pictures for baby. FIL asks how long it takes for LO’s passport to arrive (we haven’t applied for one yet). He then asked if nowadays it would be his own separate passport or an extension from the parents one. We said a separate passport and he asked what if one parent wanted to take LO away without the other parent. My MIL states how you need permission from the other parent to take them away. I don’t know how she would know this unless she’s researched into it and my FIL asking this is the first place out of the blue is concerning to me.

Is there any way my partners parents can take LO away without me or partner? Can they just pretend they’re his parents as they have his surname and are in early 40’s so could be young enough to pass as having a baby. Can they fake a permission letter? What documents are needed when taking a baby abroad and what checks are done? I need some reassurance or advice as I don’t know how to approach this.

. I still think they could apply for a Romanian one though (which would be beneficial in the long run as your child would have EU rights

Being a citizen of a country isn't the same as "having a passport". It's citizenship that gives you "rights", not the passport.

Jesus christ! This is horrific.

Change the baby’s surname
or double-barrel it.

Constantly telling her partner to break up with her including when she was pregnant isn't something I'd be splitting my sides over either.

There is nothing in what they're saying that could even pass as humorous, it's not anywhere near "dark humour" either. My friends FIL is a crime scene cleaner and has the darkest humour you could come across. This is not even close.

If you are worried then don't apply for a passport. In the UK I assume both parents have to sign in order to get a passport for a minor.

Yes it is easier to travel to certain countries on an EU passport if there are barriers to UK citizens. Barriers like visa requirements.

You will have to look up the rules for Romania to see if your child is eligible for a Romanian/EU passport. Also find out if only one parent is needed to make the application.

Romania is not the wild west. Make sure you have the correct full names of your relatives and the exact address of any property they own in Romania. Having their ID or passport numbers etc would also be advisable.

Personally I wouldn't allow any in law near my child if they make 'jokes' about removing my newborn from the jurisdiction, or any of the other comments your in laws have made to you. Your partner not standing up for you is astounding.

Given what you've outlined I'm amazed you allowed your partners surname on the birth certificate

You can change your surname by deed poll if necessary. I know one woman who left her partner who did this to match the child's surname.

Yes it's quite easy for a couple with the same surname to travel with a baby with the same surname. A question might arise if the surname is different. And more likely between certain countries.

Certain countries have rules on minors travelling without parents. Yes I have encountered this with my Irish passport children, living in another EU country travelling to a 3rd EU country alone. Some border control police are very vigilant and more vigilant in relation to the trafficking of minors, which does happen. So, thankfully, the police where I reside, have on 3 occasions held my minor child at the airport on arrival and brought them physically outside to arrivals to make sure I or my husband were actually there, as parents, to collect them. Also once there was an issue in an EU state travelling home here where that countries main airline wanted to refuse boarding as the child had no paper authority (they were 15). The person in charge argued it, because the airline was wrong, I always checked each countries rules to make sure we complied (we are a family who moved a lot in the EU/Ireland/UK.)

I think you are on high alert because you are not valued within the family: Your partner has failed to marry you. Your in-laws have failed to accept your boundaries about how you want to parent your child.

They have by-passed you as a family member, whilst embracing the new child. Not only are you invisible, you are dispensable.

Unfortunately, you cannot legally change your baby's surname.

I think the PP suggestion of applying for your own baby passport and keeping it away from your home securely is a wise one. Also birth certificate. However, they can apply for a Romanian passport despite these measures.

It's very important that you address this situation where you are downgraded, otherwise your child may have a difficult upbringing and your role as primary caregiver could be in jeopardy. You're the most important adult in this baby's life. You need to become a tiger-mom. Your baby. Your rules.

Mumsnet will give you mostly good advice, but something tangible would be helpful too. Do you have a real life advocate, who can give you moral support when you need it? How about your own mum?

I think a one off joke is a bit different to a the repetitiveness and general direction of these comments.

they want to move there, and the only reason they aren’t is because my partner doesn’t want to.
Do you mean he doesn't want to or he doesn't want them to? Do they want their 25 year old son, who has a partner and child in the UK to move with them to Romania?

Change the bs us surname and put a uk passport in a safety deposit box

Yes you should be concerned.
This has happened before where the man has taken his child back to their home country, unfortunately there is not much the government can do as technically if one parent has the child it's not classed as kidnapping.
I would really either stop the passport process or keep them well away under lock and key.

@InSpainTheRain

If you are not married then I'd advise to not give your partner parental responsibility as it gives him far more rights.

If he's on the birth certificate he has equal PR, whether they're married or not.

The OP can’t do either of those things without her partner agreeing.

"it´s just a joke"?

That´s usually said by bullies or people trying to cover their inappropriate words / actions.

I think you need to have a conversation with someone irl that you trust and your health visitor. If you are really concerned don't get a passport.
Things like kidnap do happen but are extremely rare. Your concerns could be realistic. However, I had PND and part of that was extreme paranoia and intrusive thoughts. I'm not saying this is the case with you or trying to diagnose. Nonone could possibly do that on social media. But I wouldn't want to pass over a post that concerns me without advising that you speak to someone to check all is okay.

Get the passport. Don't tell them. Keep it somewhere safe

Is your concern that your in-laws would take your DS from you and your partner or from you? If the latter, then you have a DP problem as well as an in-law problem. If you think he is possibly going to wind up being complicit to removing your son then the relationship is untenable.

Don’t get your DS a passport. Hide the UK passport if you do get him one. Never ask your in-laws to babysit and ensure you are there for every single visit. Perhaps consider not entertaining even going to Romania on holiday. It’s easier to block these things if they never ever start.

These are all measure that would keep your DS safe, but do have a think about the wider state of affairs. Why do you feel this way? Is there real risk or is this an unfounded anxiety. I can understand the spark of concern from what your in-laws have said, but there is a huge leap from that to the real risk of abduction.

Perhaps also speak to your HV about wider anxieties.

Good luck, OP. In the kindest possible way I really hope this is in your head.

I’ve posted about my parents in law previously, (to put shortly, my mil has made continuous ‘jokes’ about taking LO to their country without me, she’s made ‘jokes’ that he’s her baby not mine, her and fil have told my partner to break up with me

I wouldn't be letting them anywhere near him.
Full stop
Joke?! 🙄
Fuck that.

ILs have no right to take your child so they would be committing the crime of kidnap. Speak to the police as planning on committing a crime is as bad as committing one. Get them to advise you and to record your concerns. It may be an idea to speak with the Romanian Embassy as they like their citizens to behave when abroad.

It would be an idea to record their "joke" and speak to a solicitor about making LO a ward of court. That way he won't be able to slip across the borders. An unmarried father doesn't have the same rights as a married one, so ask your solicitor about his ability to travel without your permission.

@CinnamonJellyBeans

OP is more than able to legally change baby's name. If baby is under 12 months she just has to re-register.

OP, call your local registrar and they will help you.

Either parent (presuming both have PR) can apply for a UK passport without the other signing the form. So you’d be mad not to get a UK one asap, as your partner could apply for it otherwise, without you knowing. Check what the rules are for Romania. Some countries require both parents to apply eg Ireland.

I think you need proper legal advice and I agree it may help to contact the Romanian embassy for advice.

@Saskia98

I asked upthread but you've not said

do you have family ?
are they nearby

do you have friends ?
are they nearby

you need to start sharing your worries with someone that knows and loves you

do you have the money to consult a solicitor ?
if don't know if your concerns would come under this 30 min free advice ?
does anyone else know

as I think you are going to need to get legal advice
and I think it will need paying for

if you were my daughter and your baby was my grandchild I would be very concerned !

If you were my daughter I would be taking you and baby for a holiday to an airb&b in deepest darkest cornwall :) with a solicitors appointment booked for the 1st day there and I would be finding the money somehow to pay for it all, as my daughter's peace of mind would be so important to me - even if it did turn out to be some form of post baby blues

yes many posters would think I would be over reacting, but ' better safe than sorry '

and I do realise and appreciate that not every family has the resources / time / money to help.

I’ve not read all replies OP but I’ve read all your posts. I am Romanian and regularly travel with my (half-Romanian, half-British) DC between the two countries. Here are my thoughts:

I can’t think of any way your PILs behaviour could be pinned on cultural differences. If any of my family made jokes like this I’d think they’d lost the plot.

A parent would need to permission from the other parent to take a child abroad, however this is an easily faked document and not something that is always checked. (because you and DC don’t share a surname it’s worth knowing you’re supposed to travel with the birth certificate as well as the permission letter).

DC is a Romanian citizen already, the process of getting his passport though is not that straightforward. You need to register the birth with the Romanian consulate and have a bunch of documents translated and notarised before you can get to the passport stage. Step 1 for me would be to hide all copies of the birth certificate. They cannot get a Romanian passport organised without an original bc.

on this note, it’s worth giving the Romanian embassy a call and ask for advice. I don’t know if you can put a marker at the airports but in my experience the Romanian border police is much more thorough in their checks than the British.

finally OP, your problems are not really due to them being Romanian but rather them being batshit. So don’t get intimidated by claims of cultural misunderstandings. Also, Romanians in general are much more direct than Brits. A blunt cut the bulshit you are never to say this again to their face might work wonders. Good luck

Guidance I posted above says that they would need the details of the grandparents birth though - dates and locations. Doesn’t sound like the sort of set up where that would happen (relatively short relationship, cultural tension).

I meant to add, I’ve brought my child abroad to multiple countries including Romania without her dad, and have v rarely been asked for further information or letter of permission etc. So your partner may not even need a letter of permission. I was only asked about it in Iceland and USA. They didn’t ask to see a letter, just asked where dad was, and took my word for it.