September 2023 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support

@HoraceGoesBonkers i didn't realise that! There should be a handbook launched “Foolproof Technology Hacks To Keep You Safe From Toxic Family Members”

She’s now levering your husband to get at you. Can you ask him to say a firm no and just ignore messages.

This is what I've had to do. I'll back Mr Monkey to the hilt with social workers etc but dealing with direct calls from the witch is just not on the cards.

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau I think we need to be on the case as much as possible with the carers and social workers to make sure everything is pushed through. She's backing herself into a corner.

The carers aren't phoning MM, it's her pretending that the carers have said something. I think he's so panicky about her not eating.

I KNEW this would happen. I KNOW she will ramp up shit via food and her fucking eye drops.

In the next few days we will have

“If you don't put my eye drops in, I'll sit here and go blind.”

However, I have now flagged to social services that she has said she's not eating.

A risk.

Refusing eye drops.

A risk.

@binkie163 i’ll take a look at that! There's fuck all wrong with her appetite in a hospital or, for that matter, when she was here with the servants dancing attendance.

“Oh sorry none of the lunch items of a beef sandwich, or a cheese sandwich or a bowl of home made soup is suitable. I'll ask Fortnums to send a hamper.”

FUCK OFF.

That's hilarious Re willpower.

Jesus. Faking dementia. WTAF. I can't decide whether the Hag’s dementia is selective or not. It is DEFINTELY a mental illness.

Yeah, we won't be taking calls. There's three weeks to Christmas so a lot can change in that time period…

That poor carer. Was there no one further up the chain of command to report that to? Or were you supposed to book a flight immediately? They have NO fucking shame.

Sorry for misreading the situation @MonkeyfromManchester.
Threatening self-neglect is such a low blow and such a clumsy manipulation tool I’m surprised to see it coming from someone of that age. It’s on a par with “I’ll hold my breath until I faint!” In subtlety. Your best weapon is definitely to keep on telling social services each time she makes a stupid threat. Sunlight is the best disinfectant, to borrow a phrase from a different context, and they’ll be recording everything as well - have you told her that her behaviour is being passed on?. I was just wondering whether it might take some stress from MM if he didn’t have to consider whether it was Hag or SS each time he got a call?

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau thank you! His text wasn't very clear. He's on his way home now.

I think it's his cry for help.

She really is that psycho toxic and convinced of her narc superpowers that she can't see she can't bully her way in here or to get what she wants by claiming she's not eating. It's being referred each and every time to social services.

@MonkeyfromManchester You are amazing. I think you are the modern-day Boadicea, standing firm in your chariot, defending your MM and yourself from The Hag and her f-cking evil Haggery. What a pity that actual spears tend to be frowned upon in our society; I can think of several uses for one...
However, unlike the original Boadicea, you will win.

You're an utter inspiration. Hope MM will be OK when he gets home. Probably not, but sending love and strength.

Love and strength to you all. x

I wish we could upvote à la Reddit because I’d be upvoting for Monkey and MM! It’s going to be a hard stretch but hopefully you’ll get through it and Hag will have to spend the rest of her days without her slaves.

@REP22 gosh, thank you. This is so lovely of you. MM is just home and set up his desk downstairs. I don't think a text from MM actually conveys just how vile she is. He's given me the low down. FULL ON HYSTERICAL SCREAMING. He couldnt get a word in.

“I don't know what's happening to me. I had to make my own bacon sandwich. The carers have only been once. Why aren't they here all the time? I'm just left here. You should be looking after me. You should be here all the time. You don't support me.
You should be living here.” ETC ETC ETC.
“NO. I don't want to. I’m not a carer. I have a full time job.”
“Thats right your job is more important than me. Your own mother.”
She slams the phone down.

She hasn't called back.

He has said he can't cope. He can't give her the care she needs. He has to go and drop off her new charger and clothes. I think that the carers can pick this up. I’m going to suggest I ring them to ask them to do this.

He says she has two medical appointments. GP on Mon to get the memory assessment on the way. Wednesday diabetic eye clinic. Someone else - not Slave Son - can do this.

I've just left social services a message.

FUCK THIS SHIT.

@REP22 sharpening the spears. Awful fucking bitch. Xxx

Slave Son is waking up and backing away.

@MonkeyfromManchester apologies for the upcoming profanity but she can get her own fucking taxi. If she can portray the vulnerable victim well enough she’ll get a lift or a taxi back on the NHS (I’ve had a couple of occasions where I’ve been NC and barefoot in thin summer dress and been granted one for a short hop). But she should be able to pay one herself, and she should get used to it.

Hugs to MM and if I could I would loan him Velvet, as a PP has said she’s a superhero in a furry coat and would soon be investigating him and being friendly.

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau I think - but I'm not entirely sure - that social services set up transport for her. She's got plenty of money. She just refuses to use it for clothes or her disgusting flat.

And, to be frank, if she falls - well, this is not our fault, she is not staying here and I, for one, will not be visiting in her hospital. She has an alarm pendent for falls in the squat which is connected to a service.

She wanted it connected to MM, but we rejected this as we don't want to be tied to her and wouldn't put it past her to stage a fall.

I've seen her do the performative fall.

Once on one of the DREADFUL times when she was here, I saw begin one out of the corner of my her eye and caught her.

Last Xmas at my mum’s, she sank to her knees which MM called pathetic.

That same Xmas, besides taking her BRA off at the Xmas table, WTAF, she kept looking at the tiled floor in the dining room and kept repeating “what would you do if I fell on the floor?”

Step over you on the way to the wine fridge.

We love cats. Velvet is the sweetest name.

TAKING HER BRA OFF AT THE CHRISTMAS TABLE? Gosh, she’s had dementia for longer than you’ve been painfully aware of it, it sounds like. We’ve had threats relating to carving knives at Christmas dinner but no stripping thank god.

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau carving knives and bras! What japes!

i KNOW. My mum’s face. I’m not sure whether it’s dementia or having FUCK ALL awareness of other people.

She then went on to claim she couldn’t undress herself and insisted my mum do it. My mum was pissed and couldn’t be bothered to argue. We had the fake fall.

Hag then GOT INTO BED ON THE SOFA. 7pm. Perfectly good spare rooms - take your fucking pick. So we couldn’t chill out on the sofa. We sat on the sofa in the dining room. Rude.

Phone call from the care company; she’s screaming at the Carer because the Carer is worried that if the Hag puts the food in the oven she will fall asleep AND THE FLAT WILL BURN DOWN so the Carer is putting her ready meal in the microwave. Cue SCREAMING. FFS.

Hag needs 24 hour care.

Poor MM has gone over to drop off phone charger and clothes.

This has to be it now.

Phoning social services again in the morning.

@MonkeyfromManchester what a Xmas with The Hag! Between the staged fall and the bra surreal moment, I would say you had more then enough that day. When I am with my own NM at Xmas is one if the very few occasions I drink some wine or whatever is around. I normally don't drink at all but I cannot cope through the Xmas dinner beside her. So I totally sympathise.
My own NM has that need to be the centre of the stage. God forbid someone is going through a bad moment or going through illness. She automatically makes something up that is much worse as she can't bear people getting attention. She also had rage episodes like the ones you are describing. And she doesn't care who is around, she can't stop and I do think loves creating an atmosphere.
Anyway I agree The Hag needs to go to a nursing home ASAP. I'm sorry for the carers even though they must have seen everything. I would keep a log of every detail that suggests she can't live of her own to report to social services. Best of luck x

Oh dear @MonkeyfromManchester, I hope she is in a home soon. Poor you, MM and poor carers.

@MonkeyfromManchester words are actually starting to fail me about the Hag. If it’s not too awful and you’d like to share I’d love the story behind the bra! Understand if not though. But she’s increasingly deranged with every post, it seems. An idea’s occurred to me, as well. Could MM’s GP put in a word with SS? I may have suggested before but mine was very emphatic about me moving out last year and said she would go to SS because I wasn’t safe with my mother. MM isn’t safe now and very soon you’ll be so worn down you won’t be able to cope either.

Keep on at Social Services MM, keep up the pressure to them. Hag is chucking her toys out of her pram because she is finally sensing she is losing control. Her behaviour to the carers needs to be logged to adult social care.

You all got the full force of her narcissistic rage re her bra too.

@girlswillbegirls @CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau thank you both. I think BraGate was attention seeking and probably seeking conflict. Playing out her likely answer in my head it would be “I can take my bra off where I like when I like” We were all too speechless to say “no, could you do that away from the dinner table”

I totally hear you about drinking. I am drinking a lot at the moment as I'm numbing myself. I'm ringing my doctor today to get some mental health support.

@girlswillbegirls I'm so sorry to hear about the one-upmanship on tragedy and illness. They will stop at nothing for the attention. It's like a six year old trapped in the body of older women. It sucks the joy out of any occasion whether it's a high day or holiday or a simple cup of tea.

@HoraceGoesBonkers thank you so much. Xxx

@AttilaTheMeerkat thank you. Xx

I spoke to social services once yesterday - they rang me. Then after another incident yesterday, I can't even remember, it's on the list downstairs, I rang again and left a message. I'm chasing them up today.

MM can't cope with the aggression.

She's screaming at the care workers. The one who had the joy of dealing with her at feeding time was so upset she had to stand outside her flat. Yes, they've seen it all before, but it's not on. The care company rang us. And obviously they will alert social services.

I know EXACTLY what this. It's ‘if I behave so badly to the care workers, they will stop caring for me. Then I can have MM move in.’

She repeated again that he needs to move in and care for her. Fake tears.

TBH I'm glad the modus operandi and her game plan is out in the open. I've told MM that he needs to not take things at face value. She's an arch manipulator.

Take for example her finishing her ready meal.

“I can't eat anymore.”
“OK”
“What shall I do with it now.”
“I’ll put it in the kitchen.”

AND WRAP IT UP AND TAKE IT HOME AND PUT IT IN OUR COMPOST BIN. THE IDIOT.

I told him “this is the game.”

He did a face palm.

So, the not eating? Of course, she'd eaten. She's not drinking? Tea cups in the sink.

I've pointed out to MM that the refusal of food and medicine threat is the nuclear button for her.

But, at that point that would be - IF GENUINE - intervention by social services far and above the care package.

She's sat in her flat in the cardigan my mum bought her and the hospital issue nightdress that she was discharged in.

Did she refuse to get dressed? Or did they just think ‘get the troublesome bitch out of the ward’.?

Not even changed into the absolutely minging dressing gown (albeit laundered by us whilst she was in hospital) Her flat is boiling so she's not getting cold.

No idea about the washing machine.

MM took round the clothes I bought.

“Why have you bought me knickers?”
“Because you had one pair”

FFS. This is your typical working class Mancunian woman of a certain age where you get dressed, look your very best on no money and your house SHINES. Nothing about her shines. It's attention seeking self-neglect.

She's not going shopping with Slave Son today. Again, this is probably some kind of game. “I’ll sit wallowing in my flat.”

MM worried: “but that's her routine.”

Me: “she's been kicking off about the loss of her routine, the shopping is her routine. Yes, she wants a routine, but the routine is you waking up in her spare room at 6am and making her first cup of tea and switching Poiret on for her.”

Slave Son bringing food to her flat. It's so fucking obvious. Drawing her sons in.

ALL of this shit is getting reported to social services.

MM will take her to her GP on Monday to get the wheels in motion on the memory clinic. I'm asking today whether social services can deal with her thousands of medical appointments as MM cannot cope.

She is a fucking nightmare.

Sorry to interject. This is a minor thing but my mother has just confiscated my water glass because I put it on my radiator (I have a complicated setup including my bed and my spare bed taking up all the floor space in my room, so I can’t have a bedside table and the radiator is big enough to put glasses etc on. I don’t put anything other than a glass made of… glass on it). The thing is, she has a thing about things catching fire to the extent that she’s passed it on to me, along with my worries about doors, except I actually get so worried I’ve self-discharged from hospital once or twice when living on my own just to check everything hasn’t burned down and the door’s not swinging open for all and sundry. The other thing is that I need to drink a lot of water, particularly at the moment, as I have problems staying hydrated due to IBS and anorexia etc. My mother is constantly confiscating or just stealing things of mine to punish me or because she thinks they actually belong to her (all my cutlery and mugs have mysteriously migrated to her kitchen, even the ones given to me by work and my commemorative mug from school, and including all the cheap plastic water glasses I bought for myself - now used to store flowers in) but it’s just bizarre to take away something I actually need when she also gets angry that my self-care is so bad. I guess it’s just a really petty example of the constant double-binds she puts me in.
She’s previously threatened to put me out on the street if I leave things on the radiator, but she woke me up much earlier than normal so I could do something for her so I couldn’t move it following my morning glass of water as I usually do. It’s a glass ffs and the radiator only heats the room for two hours a day up to 15 degrees.

@MonkeyfromManchester
Removing bra 🤢
God bless the Breatharian hag, remove all scraps of food and liquid, she doesn't need it, it all comes from the air/prana universe 😀
My mum was queen of the fake fall.
6am on phone, Iv fallen, in pain, broken something.....me.....mum you are amazing, utterly injured and in pain, you dragged yourself upright to get the phone off kitchen counter, hall table, bedside table or lounge table.....can I assume you are no longer on the floor now, best to call ambulance not me 😀
Yep she hated me.
Wankers.
In my mums area there were local volunteers who did Dr and hospital visits for small fee especially for elderly and disabled. The god squad are brilliant get them involved, they also do visiting 🤣🤣 my mum has to hide in kitchen when they kept calling round. Little victories xx

Sorry @MonkeyfromManchester i hadn’t seen your post when I posted!

Re the hospital issue nightgown, the NHS don’t seem to really care whether their blankets, clothes etc go missing, I’ve got three of their blankets gifted by paramedics, but they seem to have discharged her quite snappily by their standards so I suspect yes, she was being an absolute nuisance. I have to cop to hanging around in a fairly ratty dressing gown and hospital clothes when I’m in hospital, but I do actually also not eat, drink less than I should and just generally neglect myself. I should imagine she’s resisted the efforts of carers to get her dressed.

@MonkeyfromManchester I am still 🤢🤢 at the bra.
BAT-HAGGERY at its most repugnant, I need a pint of gin.

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau such controlling behaviour from your mum. Control makes people anxious. You have sky high anxiety. MM does. I'm getting it now!

I think judging by Sunday’s behaviour on the ward and the reaction of the woman who got out of her hospital bed to move with her husband out of earshot of the Hag that the ward and staff were sick of her behabiour. They wanted her out.

@binkie163 prana universe 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Oh that's made me laugh Re The Time Honoured Tradition Of The Fake Fall. It's just so utterly ridiculous.

Oh I think the God Squad is a perfect idea. She can bang on about her Godliness.

In great news, I've spoken to social services and the genuinely saintly Katie. I explained over 45 minutes how we cannot cope with her escalating horrific behavioyr - yesterday for example - and that her needs are too complex for us. The Hag’s case is now marked urgent.

The best Xmas present for me is her in a fucking care home.

@binkie163 sending gin. It’s just atrocious.

Sending gin 🍸🍹🍷and good vibes to you Monkey. Keep Katie in your sights re the Hag.

DHs nice aunt is now in hospital☹️. Her narc sister (my MIL) has apparently been up half the night worrying about her when she in reality could not give a shit. And nor for that matter do her adult children, they’re more interested in the cash.