September 2023 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support

I completely agree we all need a little joy and your joy is being crushed. The little kitten is now being used as a weapon which is truly awful.

Is there no way you can move out? A bed sit with strangers (not great I know I’ve lived that life) would be an improvement on your mother.

@PurBal contact for me also reduces me to a wreck before, during and even worse afterwards. I last went home to see family in the spring and endured a horrendous week, the worst my DP has seen from everyone (normally they are a lot nicer when he’s around, I pointed out welcome to a glimpse into my childhood when he started seeing the extra stuff). Afterwards has been terrible this time I spent three days in bed not able to do anything and three weeks trying to calm myself. Six months later and I’m still not OK.

If it’s effecting your little children too maybe try NC for a little whole, or low contact without the children being present.

@PurBal this might be a controversial view due to the fact that I’ve struggled with substances, but I think there are a whole range of contributing factors which make it difficult to abandon any kind of abusive relationship which simply aren’t present in other addiction scenarios. I personally feel very scared and despairing about society’s view of recovered addicts of any kind because it’s SO judgmental, but leaving that aside, it carries a stigma and I think it’s unfair of your husband and unfair to yourself to make that comparison (I’m sure your husband is a lovely man but the way you wrote about yourself was piling shame on your own head). You don’t deserve it. It takes huge amounts of strength and self-compassion to walk away from someone who is treating us badly. It also takes strength and compassion for the abuser, which might be misplaced but still comes from the heart, to maintain that relationship.
Please, as others have said, keep talking here. Lower contact as much as you can even if you can’t manage NC. Try to gather strength from the observable impact on your son, but know that no parent is perfect anyway and it is NOT your fault at all if he’s having behavioural issues. Others will be along with much better advice alongside the other posters’ existing counsel.

Thanks to the people who replied to me, as well. I’m getting better at identifying her behaviours as jealousy, envy, spite but I have to say it didn’t even register that she wouldn’t let me speak because it’s been if not beaten, shouted into me that I don’t interrupt since before I could remember. It was probably thrown into sharp relief by the fact that she does have to pretend to be nice to my boyfriend but she doesn’t have to care with me, I’m stuck with her. And she does and says worse things every day. As my boyfriend noticed, almost every sentence! At least she was only boasting about her trip out to him and not insulting me or my father directly or indirectly.

I am absolutely dreading my sister’s visit, due in a few days. It’s getting late today but if it’s OK I’ll probably post a few details about why? My sister, I don’t think isn’t even a flying monkey. I know we shouldn’t armchair diagnose but I’d say my mother is a narcissist (not in the lightweight sense, in the nearly Donald Trump sense) with maybe some borderline traits, while my sister is just a psychopath. My mother is going to want us to interact and neither I nor my sister want that tbh. She also took exception to my ex when she met him and called him a “dung beetle” over text to my mother because he was a little on the large side and had secondhand trainers. My current partner, who I love dearly, is actually larger and (admittedly slightly eccentrically) is still sporting shorts and flip-flops. I know I shouldn’t take on so about hearing my partners insulted but she’s going to turn up with her rich, probably conventionally good-looking boyfriend and absolutely sneer if she meets my boyfriend.

Also @Tbry and @flapjackfairy thanks for your comments. I’ve tried moving out several times and shan’t bore you with why the last attempt didn’t work out! You seem like lovely, kind people. I’m currently stuck in a little bit of a death spiral where I can’t get my job back because my MH is getting worse and worse - it’s on hold for me - and my parents insist on being paid the majority of the sick pay I get. I have about enough to pay a taxi for hospital appointments (my physical health is that bad too) but not enough for a deposit. I’d love to take my little cat and run but at the moment we’re keeping each other company in a situation we can’t escape. I am pretty sure I posted on this but my mother completely flew off the handle the other week and then swore and shouted at me for picking the cat up and taking her away from the argument - she (cat) normally can’t stand being picked up but she put up with it because it was obviously quite scary. It’s super difficult to find cheap or council accommodation which would take a cat. She’s at the same time making it more bearable for me to stay and more difficult to leave. The plus side is as soon as I have someone to stand up for I get a lot braver, and now I have my little cat.

I’m also not working due to my MH so understand the spiralling.

I am sure you would qualify for some sort of accommodation via the local authority though as your situation is not healthy in so many different ways. Why are they keeping your money? We had to help someone with accommodation and the homeless officer was great, Lots of forms and a long wait but the end result was somewhere safe for the person to live. Maybe your boyfriend could help you look into it as I know how stressful it is and how anxious it will make you feel.

https://www.beccabland.com/post/family-estrangement-the-holidays-a-guide-to-navigating-the-festive-period

I have a feeling Christmas is a bad time for most of us so this was good to read. I can’t see this link in @AttilaTheMeerkat‘s great list.

My therapy was great as the moment I was told what my illnesses and symptoms were I felt huge relief and then therapy with named terms for what I had gone through was so uplifting for me as I realised I’m not alone and other people must have had this stuff as well as they have terms and diagnoses for it.

So thought this was a good article too as makes you realise you are not the only one.

I’m coping (hopefully) by sending parcels and cards early most are already sent, not seeing anyone at all from my family or my in-laws under any circumstances, won’t be answering the phone on the day (no one called last year to answer to anyway) or sending texts, tree up a week before as otherwise that adds to the bad thoughts for me and planning a very very very low-key Christmas at home just the three of us. Oh and also trying to avoid the never ending adverts.

I’m also lucky that I’m not currently working as having to downplay or explain my family situation in the past has been a terrible trigger, even when it’s a really kind colleague or friend. If anyone asks I just say it’s not a good time of the year for me and leave it as that. As I was a lone parent people tend to presume it’s all related to that and then they don’t tend to pry.

No other tips I’m afraid as if I could wake up tomorrow and it’s all over I would choose that.

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau whatever your sister says just put the mute button on in your head. Her opinions DO NOT count it is your life not hers. Especially if she’s not a supportive person in your life. Just ignore completely and wait for her to leave, hopefully ASAP.

As for your boyfriend wearing shorts and flip flops 🙂 I have a good view of passers-by from my lounge and see most people pass by from our housing estate and he would match in well here. It goes from one person bundled up in about twenty layers, no idea how they can even walk, to the next person in T-shirt and shorts. I’m not that nosey really I look out for all the dogs enjoying their walks 🐕

Hugs to everyone as we all look forward to Christmas Hell.

Slave Son phoned this morning saying The Hag was being released from hospital tomorrow at 11am. WITHOUT A CARE PACKAGE.

MM got immediately on the phone to the ward sister and passed the phone to me.

“Is she getting discharged tomorrow”
“Yes, she's ready to go home”
“Why? Have you talked to her about a care package?”
“Yes, but she says she doesn't need one.”
“She does.”
“She had capacity to make that decision.”
“No, she doesn’t. She's being referred to a memory clinic. I don't think that indicates capacity. She's confused a lot of the time.”

(AND A BITCH)

I went through for the 50th time about the self-neglect. And then I threw the ball, thanks @Sicario

“We refuse to take on her discharge and her care going forward. We’re simply not doing her care. We are not picking her up tomorrow. We will not allow her to be discharged to us. We are not going to her flat. Social services have a duty of care. I need to speak to someone, so get someone to speak to me TODAY.”

(Mr Monkey is now using the same language)

10 minutes later someone from Occupational Health calls. I explain AGAIN the issues. I say AGAIN that she's not being discharged to us. We refuse responsibility.
They need to put a package of care in place.

“Oh she's said she doesn't need it”

“Well, I'm telling she does. She is SELF NEGLECTING. And, if anything happens to her because of social services and your negligence, believe me, I'm fully prepared to take legal action.”

“Let me go and speak to my manager.”

The 11 year old rings back 10 minutes later.

“Yes, we’re putting extra care into place. Four care calls a day now. Longer calls. She's not being discharged until this is in place. There's going to be a social worker put in place.”

“And are the carers going to report to the care company when she refuses care? Are we going to be told?”
“I think so.”
“Can you check? Is there an actual system in place for this eventuality?”

SILENCE.

Tomorrow when I ring back, because I will, i’ll ask about the ‘system’ again. And I will remind them that we are NOT taking her care on. We refuse to.

Slave Son believes that she’ll accept care and got really snotty when I said it was a real possibility that she wouldn't. He's so fucking STUPID. ANYTHING for an easy life.

She wants her sons to live with her. Slave Son, that door is open for you, but Mr Monkey won’t be moving in. ENJOY!

He was shirty because the process that had been told to me hasn't happened. Why the cock do I know why this hasn't happened? Does he want to deal with it all? No, of course, not.

I told him point blank that MM and I are refusing to take on her care and if he's happy to do this for her, then crack on. No, he doesn't want to.

At the bitch’s funeral I better not get too pissed as I'm liable to tell him that all through this NIGHTMARE the only ‘competence’ he showed was being competent as someone she could emotionally abuse. And he let that happen.

Hag, of course, phones us this afternoon and says she's not going to use the Carers. We are now keeping a diary of these conversations slash emotional blackmail. We will share this with the muppets. And Slave Son as he's confident ‘everything will be OK’ FFFS.

Oh no @MonkeyfromManchester. Luckily the card you have to play is you and MM being tough cookies. At a certain point you’ll have to leave SS to it, which you undoubtedly know. Don’t throw yourselves under a metaphorical bus to be metaphorical crash mats for someone who doesn’t deserve it and doesn’t care (if someone wants to give rewards for the biggest mixed metaphor on mumsnet, I’m here all year). This may or may not have any effect whatsoever but a chat with SS outlining the harm the Hag has done, why you don’t want her anywhere near you or MM and why you will both continue to resist her attempts at getting you to act as her impromptu carers might blow off a tiny bit of steam, at least. It is so difficult because from the side of the abused, you can see the terror, the restrictions, the desire for love, the duty, all the things that make you frightened and psychologically unable to walk away. I can see this is probably what’s going on for Slave Son but at the same time these consequences are going to be so difficult for you and MM, who are holding strong.

Wouldn’t ever want to belittle your situation, but at least the door is still open if SS is unable to cope. It might actually be worth a call to his local SS to (sorry, using same abbreviation for two different things but I’m sure you can keep up) make sure they’re on alert now anyway or - sorry, I’ve not kept up with exactly who you’ve been calling, but another call to make sure they know he’s unlikely to cope and can make plans with Hag for what happens when SS can’t cope. I think this is a reiteration of something said on another occasion, but my GP has previously gently threatened to involve SS if I couldn’t get out of my family home. You could also call the National Domestic Abuse Helpline or your own GP for a bit of a vent and some reassuring advice? You seem super capable but I’m sure you and MM are worn paper thin at this point and having an enabling son for the Hag is utterly exasperating, I’m certain. The more public authorities you can convince that the Hag shouldn’t be near MM (I know it’s hard on you too, but for him it’s almost certainly repeat trauma and bad for his health) the better.

@MonkeyfromManchester - and so it unfolds... The Hag lying about not needing care... social services ticking the "she has capacity" box (which, as you'll recall, includes capacity to make poor choices).

The nuclear option here, which I am familiar with and would say is your best option given the circumstances, is to stop engaging with all the services.

And please do consider the Burner Phone Strategy.

This really will remove the "bomb-in-your-pocket" phone situation. You will become uncontactable. You will be able to take back control of your lives and your time. You will be able to eat a spag bol, or watch shite tv, without the phone going off.

MM's phone has become an incendiary device. I would imagine that every time it rings it sends a shot of adrenalin-fuelled stress into every corner of your very being.

You can stop this. MM can stop this.

As Attila says, drop the rope.

You have made your position quite clear. The only way to enforce this now is to become uncontactable.

(You really are wasting your breath with the phone calls to 11 year olds and the social services. They will not step up completely until you are no longer on the other end of a phone.)

@Sicario you are absolutely right about the phone. She's just phoned from hospital doing the sweet old lady act. Sweet phone calls are three minutes. Rants are far longer.

He has to get back to very limited calls when she's back in her lair. Back to the rule of phone off in the office and in the evening. I've blocked her and she's blocked on the landline. MM has taken the voice mail off his phone.

I wish total NC was an option for Mr Monkey. He's at the stage of very low LC and he struggled to get there. Obviously, this BS has dragged him back but not to the place he was before. He's got some trauma bonding. I think as soon as he's back to counselling he’ll be able to explore his options. Guilt about her doesn’t factor anymore.

I'll be on to social services again tomorrow.

At least they're putting that care package in place and it stays in place. They reviewed her care in the summer and even though she's not using it properly its not been curtailed.

MM and SS and I will tell the bitch that if she refuses care we’re not picking it up and the options are 24 hour care. We are agreed.

We’re not dealing with her and I'm writing a complaint letter tomorrow PLUS a letter from MM says he refuses care.

ONWARDS! I'm not being ground down by her. Fuck that.

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau sorry to hear your sister will be visiting and adding to the stress. As someone else has said her opinion of you and your boyfriend is not valid. She’s doing it purposely to be nasty and to try to upset you. How long is she staying for? Looking back one of the best things I ever did was leave home. I kind of did it by accident and was lucky I had someone willing to put me up until I got on my feet but would it be worth looking into what help is available especially if your GP would back you on it?

@MonkeyfromManchester I don’t have much experience with social services but I think @Sicario has good advice there. One last phone call reiterate where you stand and letting them know its the last time you will be communicating with them with regards to the hag. Everything from now on is on their heads and they are not to contact you any more.

@Tbry i have actually started telling people the truth about my mum and surprisingly they have been supportive. Some shocked but i feel better by telling the truth and not feeling like I’m covering for her or lying.

@Sicario you are absolutely right. The issue is MM being stuck in this trauma bond. I think being back in counselling will help him.

You are totally right that they want her out of hospital and out of their hair. She's not our responsibility as we can't cope with her. We’re now refusing to care for her citing my bipolar, MM’s PTSD and Slave Son’s MS.

What is really, really, really frustrating and SHIT is the lack of communication between the departments AND clarity with us. They said last week she needed a more extensive care package and that it was being put in place. Hag told social workers on Friday there had been mouldy food in her flat. Then - WTAF - the more extensive care package disappears based on the whims/manipulation of a woman who is being referred to a memory clinic for dementia.

Livid doesn't even cover it.

Anyway, it will help my head if I write a letter. I'm particularly keen on understanding their processes and lack of joined up thinking. Nothing policy wise is written down - handy as they can then duck the issue. Now keeping a diary on their ‘actions’.

Fucking livid.

@MonkeyfromManchester I hope it’s OK to write what I’m about to write, but the overwhelming problem is organisational, funding, hierarchy problems in the NHS, it’s not the staff - I’ve been discharged a lot of times myself when I’ve been told it’s not safe by one staff member and then the other one on the next shift has so much pressure on and may not even know about the first opinion and will get me out of the door. That makes it so much more difficult for someone in your position, because especially in a short-stay ward there will be a constant rotation of doctors with the final say. Also, and I mean this kindly and not dismissively, the Hag doesn’t deserve your anger in that she doesn’t deserve the bother for you, the energy expenditure of being angry, the fighting against the system.

Slave Son probably isn’t having the time of his life but he’s chosen to ally with the Hag. It may be time for them both to encounter the consequences of their own actions.

If you’ve made it very clear that you can’t cope with Hag, perhaps some separation from her and SS is in order? I know MM probably cares for SS but sometimes adults need to find out for themselves.

Really sorry everyone but I need to vent a bit.
Why IS my mother like this? It probably doesn’t make much sense without the detailed context of living with her but she speculated about turfing the cat out back to Battersea yesterday night and said she wasn’t “as good” as the previous cat we had (who was very… forceful as cats go and preferred my mother and sister while enjoying biting and attacking me and my dad). Today she’s started mimicking the way I call the cat - my voice is super high-pitched while hers is more alto range, for example, so she’s raised her voice in pitch - and making sure the cat group chat is well-informed that Velvet comes to her call. I know I’m oversensitive and insecure but I’m worried that she’ll start liking my mother more and that my mother will piggyback on the ways I’ve developed of relating to the cat and the cat will like her more than she likes me - I know that sounds exactly as jealous and petty as my mother is but I love my little friend. At the moment I have three points of light in my life - Velvet, my boyfriend and my best friend. Velvet is the source of so much jealousy from my mother, who obviously only wanted a cat to worship her as she even got angry over Velvet sleeping in my bed for a portion of the evening until I went to fetch her to the living room. My boyfriend is lovely but he’s ten years younger and dealing with his own shit. Unsurprisingly my mother is also jealous that I can attract someone ten years younger, especially when I’m so worthless and useless (otherwise known as being on long-term sick pay). My sister is probably arriving in a couple of days and as she described my last boyfriend as a “dung beetle” because he owned secondhand trainers I’m bracing for an assault on my current DP, who is, like my ex, lower-class (this isn’t an insult, he’s working-class and my family averages out at middle-class), not well off and objectively overweight. I wouldn’t swap him for the world and I really hate my partners being insulted even if out of their presence. My sister can be utterly vile and is going to be rocking up with an Italian banker, her latest conquest - she gets bored quickly. My friend is lovely but, like all my friends, doesn’t have the time and emotional resources to take care of me, which is completely fair. I’ve made do for the past calendar year with just sending something positive to her every day or so. However, I’m now in the emotional state where I went to a musical event she was involved in and was surprised when she hugged me and asked permission to be in the audience when I could make it to the next one.
Really sorry to waste your time writing this one out. I do have a therapist but it’s an hour a week and the emotional… let’s call it maltreatment is absolutely constant. As I’ve mentioned before my mother literally can’t go a sentence without slagging someone off either overtly or covertly. She can’t even let me be friends with a cat. She takes everything away from me and taints all of it - it probably says something that I still have a security blanket at 31 and none of my boyfriends have batted an eyelid ever having met her, and the blanket is basically the only thing she ever leaves alone and won’t try to take (presumably because it’s pathetic. My dad has taken it as punishment before.)
It’s just fucking bleak. Sorry about the essay as usual. Please cross your fingers for me that the train will be cancelled for my sister, my parents will be out and my boyfriend will have a lot of free time in the coming days. Since my dad walked in without warning on us naked they generally leave me alone when he is visiting. Absolutely no such luck when he isn’t.

@MonkeyfromManchester save your energy, honestly everything you do/organize can be vetoed by hag. You are a novice compared to her manipulation skills.

You are expending as much energy doing all this as you do LC you have no authority at the end of the day. Hag is loving the drama, she has you fully enmeshed in this drama.

Would Mr M consider an immediate 4 week NC? block hag, slave son and ss on phone and email. She has capacity to make decisions, which are based on keeping you enmeshed, withdraw from slave as he must also take the consequences of his weakness. Let them enjoy 4 whole weeks of facing those consequences without you giving them an audience, not even one call a week. I think you have unwittingly become even more involved/enmeshed not less. Ss don't actually care if she neglects or not and neither should you, she makes a conscious decision, she knows exactly what she is doing. Ss can see you are fully engaged.

I squirmed about NC you think you are controlling LC but you are not, it is exhausting and just another pig fight. Honestly for yours and MM sanity drop the rope ❤️

OK, addendum to moan upcoming.
My mother finally explained why she was angry about a bottle of Dettol on my spare bed, which is admittedly messy (yes, having a bottle of antiseptic or whatever Dettol is is apparently cause for complaint). She had brought it into the room and had later threatened to throw me out of the house if I kept anything on the radiator, which at that point was not on at any time, so I moved the disinfectant. She has explained that apparently it’s what I use to clean things up when I cut myself.

This is just categorically not the case. I’m very good at avoiding infection but if something does get a bit infected I’ll use salt or hand sanitiser under a piece of gauze - very painful but hasn’t failed me yet. I have never used dettol for anything in my life and my mother hasn’t ever even acknowledged my self-harm unless she wants to shout at me.

Another one, the bias towards my sister. She’s coming for a visit as I said and I am dreading it and though I wouldn’t admit it to anyone I know, have had fleeting thoughts of really hurting myself or attempting suicide again just to not be here when she is. But when I clean the cat’s litter tray or use the toilet, my mother keeps accusing me of not using hand sanitiser or washing my hands and has explicitly said several times it’s because of what my sister thinks. I am thirty one years old. I’ve been washing my hands for most of those. My sister has a weird health anxiety thing which involves her Insisting on people changing clothes when they enter her house or taking their shoes off, but doesn’t stop her house being actually encrusted with grime because she never bothers to clean. My mother also said I should unpack my boxes and refused my suggestion of moving them to my part of the house - for which I pay rent - because my sister and her boyfriend are visiting and god forbid they see the boxes my mother moved out into the hall - her part of the house. In her words “you’ve got a lot of work to do”. This is definitely going to work as I’m suicidally depressed and not eating enough to walk to the kitchen without getting out of breath. Also my mother is constantly threatening to move the whole household so I don’t see any point in unpacking. Not like I have any sort of life anyway.

New development with the cat - she’s started imitating the kissy noise I make to call her over, which I know is ridiculous but made me feel a bit sick, as well as my tone of voice. I got up and went to the door and the cat ran towards me straight away (lol, as my boyfriend would say). I know it’s such a tiny thing but she is SO envious, she can’t let me have anything without wanting to take it away and often succeeding at that. And the box thing just disgusts me - again, super minor, but if she thinks my sister’s rich, privileged boyfriend is going to be disgusted by the sight of a moving box (which could EASILY be moved into my part of the house and hidden from view, she’s insisted that all the other boxes are hidden away from the massive pane of glass she chose to install so thefucking postman can’t see them) when she’s let my poor, lovely boyfriend see them freely for months and months, that indicates exactly what she feels about them.

She’s also employed a really poor plumber and apparently quite incompetent builder, but insists my shower be used regularly (I have a little en-suite which makes me feel disgustingly privileged, but again I’m paying them everything I can afford pretty much). As a result there is black mould. Apparently this is entirely my fault and my sister will be appalled. Why my sister would even be in my room is, again, a remote possibility. But my mother assumed I not only made the mould grow - I’ve only had baths in recent months because I risk fainting in a shower so it’s just been her weirdly barging in every so often to use my shower - but is insisting that someone completely unlikely to see my room is going to be upset about it. Just like my sister will be upset if I don’t sanitise or wash my hands if I clean the litter tray, which is my job (I’ve previously been responsible for the entire family’s horses as well. I don’t mind doing it at all and would do it voluntarily. But if they want to apply unreasonable standards and exacting protocols to something they don’t deign to do, ie shovelling shit, they should keep their noses out instead.) my sister previously fabricated an allergy to horses or hay or something so she wouldn’t have to do any horse care. It miraculously disappeared when she wanted to take up polo. Meanwhile my lovely boyfriend is actually allergic to cats (he gets wheezy and itchy, it’s minor but real) but he has made friends with Velvet, pets her and will sit by her, and is admiring of how I take care of her.

I’m sorry to be so angry and long-winded this morning. I’m just so sick and tired of the hypocrisy, double-binds, constant lying, the narc family dynamic overall. And I genuinely don’t know how I’ll get through the next few days.

Jesus Christ, I’ve written not one but several essays. Sorry everyone :( @MonkeyfromManchester is definitely in the severer situation.

@MonkeyfromManchester - there is no "joined-up-thinking" in the NHS. It's a shit show. The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. Social Services have a very low bar for "capacity".

I really really wouldn't bother with writing letters. It's utterly pointless.

It's deeply frustrating, but only if you are dealing with somebody you genuinely love and care about. (Because it's impossible to get them what they need.)

Again, the only way is to drop the rope and become uncontactable. And I think @binkie163 's suggestion of an immediate 4-week No Contact period is very wise. Save yourselves.

So sorry you are dealing with all this and sending solidarity.

@MonkeyfromManchester - this quote from @binkie163 is spot on:

I think you have unwittingly become even more involved/enmeshed not less. Ss don't actually care if she neglects or not and neither should you, she makes a conscious decision, she knows exactly what she is doing. Ss can see you are fully engaged.

please don’t take this in the wrong way as I appreciate everyone’s support here.

I’m really doing my best to get out of the shit show of MM’s awful family.

I succeeded and I will again - MM too by going very low contact. This LC for him was a triumph.

It’s incredibly painful to see someone you love have the long-standing after effects of his utterly appalling family and I can’t leave him to this shit as it has destroyed his mental health before. His counsellor said it was an extraordinarily abusive family and his CPTSD is at the upper scale. He’s been at risk of being hospitalised before. I believe that I’ve got him to a much better place and I’m not having that reversed. He’s not having night terrors and his shredded social esteem is getting better.

Much as four weeks sounds incredibly appealing (unbelievably so!) I can’t do that as I can’t leave MM to this.

I don’t give a fuck about Slave Son - he’s part of the problem and enables her behaviour. When the Hag dies I won’t have to deal or see him. I doubt MM will do either bar a curry once a year. MM now sees him as a huge part of the toxicity and violence.

TBH if she doesn’t use her Carers then that will become someone else’s problem. At the moment, i’m doing performative get the carers sorted.

This may sound defeatist but it’s not.

I am going to complain. It will make me feel better. Last time in 2020, the social workers were amazing and it’s a disaster now @Sicario says the NHS and social care is a disaster zone. The cynical side of me wants it written in black and white and copied into her GP as I suspect he’s not in the loop on any of this.

As said, I appreciate everyone’s support. For many of us this is the only place we can talk candidly and that’s why it’s so valuable to me.

@MonkeyfromManchester I’m not sure which bit of that would be considered objectionable! Sometimes it’s impossible to go NC or VLC and I understand that, as well as the fact that MM’s health and sanity actually depend on at least not having to live with the Hag every day. You’re both doing your best in the available circumstances and that’s all you can do. Also loads of sympathy to MM. I was called “the most damaged person I’ve ever met” by a hospital psychiatrist and I think it depends on personality and various other things, but the impact of abuse can be colossal even if it wouldn’t be considered severe from an outside/inexpert perspective. You need to look after yourself and MM. Don’t be ashamed.

Sending strength and solidarity to you both @MonkeyfromManchester . Of course you know exactly what you're doing and how best to deal with it. We all care very much about you.

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau thank you. This is the best bit of fucked up families, isn’t it? How hard it is to break free and being on constant alert. You must feel like everything you think is completely mad because no one normal would be jealous of a KITTEN. But your mother is! How does one even begin to explain that dynamic? This place is a lifeline as you can talk about this head stretching stuff without judgement and people actually understanding and believing the immense pain one’s feeling.

I hope today gets better.

MM is off work with IBS - was it @binkie163 who had the insight about IBS - and in the bath. The phone is ringing - guess who? - and I’ve turned his phone off.