Husband and his drinking

[Helen901]

Hello, im not really sure what im asking but want some recognition that my situation is crap.

Husband (48) and his drinking. Hes a daily drinker anyway. He has a full time job. No issues there. Over the last week or two, hes drank daily more so than usual because hes been off work and its Christmas/NY. Id estimate around 20 units a day (today for example its been a bottle of wine and 4 strong beers).

he does not see a problem with his drinking but i think its just too much. Even in a normal week, i think he drinks too much (beer after work). He would say he doesnt have a problem as he isnt drinking spirits. I find it really boring as we dont do anything with the children. I mean i do take them out but i do a lot of things on my own with them, he does his own thing (usually involves mates and pubs). Already feel like a single parent in a lot of ways.

if i try to bring the subject up, he doesn’t want to discuss it, gets angry and agressive and makes me feel like im blowing it out of proportion.

am i? Do your other halves drink daily? I bet they dont Christmas or not.

im wondering about calling it a day

I apologise for my oversight. I still think you are projecting here. Why are you so angry with me. We are on the same side. We just have a difference of opinion on whether it’s necessary to immediately start divorce proceedings!

@been and done it.

That is considerably more than 32 units a week. A can of strong lager has a minimum of 2 units in it. He is probably shifting 100 units if drinking every night and all day at weekends. At their worst, my parents were drinking around 200 units a week.

I think you've done all you can @Helen901 . Ultimatums don't work, as you already know. Either he wants to cut down his drinking or he doesn't, it's his choice. But your choice is whether to live with it. You've decided you don't want to, and a few nights off the booze to try and prove a point (he's trying to prove to himself he's not an alcoholic) is neither here nor there. I would suspect he will try to manufacture a row in order to have an excuse to drink.

Keep calm and get the ball rolling on separation.

@AnnieSnap I'm not angry with you, I just think you have missed the posts where OP describes her husband's behaviour. It isn't just one post - she describes that she is walking on eggshells, she describes having had multiple attempts to discuss his alcohol use only to be met with verbal aggression and denial. Meanwhile there are children in the mix, and they should always be put first. Dealing with an alcoholic is about having good boundaries, and the fact that OP is coming on here to ask whether everyone's OH drinks like hers suggests her boundaries need some work. Right now she is tolerating behaviour that is abusive.

I completely agree with you. I have said (repeatedly now) that she should get him out of the house or leave him. The only point we differ on is if it’s necessary to immediately commence divorce proceedings!

I have already said that, like you, I’ve been there. I lived with my alcoholic husband for 11 years before getting the Police to put him out. So like the OP and, no doubt yourself, I have lots of experience of walking on eggshells and trying to discuss his booze and behaviour, only to be met with denial or verbal aggression.

I think we'll have to disagree on the divorce proceedings. I think that given the fact that OP has been putting up with this for some years now, divorce is appropriate. I wish I had started divorce proceedings in 2015 when I realised how bad things were (at which point I had had the conversation many, many times). Some of the damage to my DCs' mental health might have been prevented.

@Nat1833 its a shared history, the possibility he might cut down, the upheaval for the kids and wider family connections - i just know my MIL will be round crying and trying to get me to reconsider, how it will work out split parenting, finances especially at the moment. Worrying for my husband how he will cope and will he get worse with his drinking, upset for kids etc 😢 plus, its just kind of crept up to be like this. Little things like shouting at me, slamming doors, little digs all over time. Its almost- is it worth leaving over that? Then it gets to now and its built up to my “rock bottom” and i have to do something or live like this for the rest of my days

i will say, i met up with my girlfriends and told them my plans. One of them said dismissively to me, well he drinks no more than X and hes still functioning/working etc. i was a bit annoyed. This level of drinking is not ok 🤷🏻‍♀️

ive just read “codependent no more” an eye opener. Scary how much the descriptions compare to me. I have a lot of work to do on myself.

i know hes not going to change. I see what youre saying @AnnieSnap but he doesn’t see an issue with his drinking. Ive been banging my head against a wall for the past few years. Its too late. If he did id always be on edge

Pretty much my husband on a normal week, hes on around 70-80 units

Hi Helen

re your post of 18.05 that I have separated out for my comments to be added.

"@Nat1833 its a shared history, the possibility he might cut down, the upheaval for the kids and wider family connections - i just know my MIL will be round crying and trying to get me to reconsider, how it will work out split parenting, finances especially at the moment".

NONE of these factors are and basis, let alone reasons to stay with your alcoholic and your codependent nature also keeps you tied within this. The shared history is another form of sunk costs fallacy (do not get bogged down in your sunk costs) and hope is false here also when it comes to him. How many times have you covered for him and or hoped already that he will stop drinking?. You really do not want to waste any more years here on him hoping for him to have some epiphany that won't happen. His mother is probably glad that he is off her hands; besides which she does not live with him. You do and your life with him, let alone that of your kids, is miserable. He won't likely want to see the kids much post separation and could palm them off on your MIL. They will also interfere with his drinking time.

Your own recovery from his alcoholism will not start until you are separate completely from him.

"Worrying for my husband how he will cope and will he get worse with his drinking, upset for kids etc 😢 plus, its just kind of crept up to be like this."

Again this is your codependency talking; you cannot afford to listen to that voice anymore. Abuse like this too is insidious in its onset and does creep up on people unawares.

"Little things like shouting at me, slamming doors, little digs all over time. Its almost- is it worth leaving over that?

These are not little things either in the context of his alcoholism and yes its absolutely worth leaving him over that.

"Then it gets to now and its built up to my “rock bottom” and i have to do something or live like this for the rest of my days"

Yes, those are the choices. However, you also have a choice re this man and your children do not. I would urge you to not live like this for the rest of your days.

"I will say, i met up with my girlfriends and told them my plans. One of them said dismissively to me, well he drinks no more than X and hes still functioning/working etc. i was a bit annoyed. This level of drinking is not ok"

Ignore the dissenter in your group here who said this. Friends too can be overinvested and or unhelpful. Its of more use to write on here to be honest and to find people like you. You could well do with attending both AL-ANON and CODA meetings; there are ordinary people just like you there.

Your H is still working, well for now anyway, until that wheel falls off which it will do. You really do not want to become his carer either.

@AttilaTheMeerkat until I threw him out, my husband was as in denial as any other alcoholic!

*hope is false here
*

I think hope is always a useless and self-destructive emotion. It keeps people trapped in shit situations and prevents them taking steps to escape.

People hoping they're going to win the lottery and not applying themselves to get qualified, promoted, etc.

People hoping their spouses are going to stop abusing them.

People kneeling in orange jumpsuits hoping that the SAS are going to come over the horizon in a helicopter.

@AttilaTheMeerkat I have a lot of work to do on myself with regards to my codependency. I absolutely do not want to become his carer.

hes just carrying on today like nothing has happened although has not drunk. Tomorrow we shall see… any advice on how to follow this up to check he’s understood what ive said? Should i sit him down again?

No to sitting him down again. He knows what you have said.

Would urge you instead to contact both Al-anon and a firm of Solicitors. You can’t help him but you can and should help your own self here.

And do work on your codependency issues. Your children will also thank you for doing so and they cannot afford to become codependent in their relationships either.

I've probably drank more than i should since lockdown, having around 8 units three times a week. I know if I get to around 12 units a serious hangover is on the cards and the times I've been at a big occasion and had perhaps 15 units I've been extremely ill. How he can drink 20 units a day is both staggering and alarming. This is a seriously dangerous level of consumption and one that cannot coexist with being a functional partner and parent. It has to stop or you need to leave.

I'm sorry OP but I don't see the point in talking to him further about this. He hasn't (you think) had a drink so he probably thinks it's all ok and if you try to talk to him he'll just reiterate that he hasn't had a drink (and is therefore sticking to his side of the bargain)

OP, I've said it twice now. Stop talking to him about his drinking. He isn't listening and is telling you he doesn't have a problem. Just carry on with your plans to leave. DO NOT be guilted into staying because of your mother-in-law or because of money issues -they'll get worse if you stay anyway, and his family probably have their own issues, which are not your problem. Focus on your kids and getting them out of this horrible situation. Listen to what the children of alcoholics are telling you on this thread. Living with an alcoholic damages children. And while it is lovely that @AnnieSnap 's husband is in recovery, you have had enough and that is what matters. Your husband can recover or not, if and when he chooses, and you can be hopeful it might happen at some future point for his sake, but don't spend another minute of your life trying to control something you can't. He is not your problem to fix.

Absolutely agree. Im on a mission to get out and move forward with my life 🙌

Well done. Keep posting here when things get tough (they will) and we will support you.

Last night he didnt drink again, as far as i know. We shall see what happens tonight and over the weekend. Past experience tells me he cannot keep this up.

he did mention going to a family festival again this year, last night. I just dont think he fully gets what ive said. I just said, no i dont think so. And he said why? I just said, what about our conversation the other night. He looked hurt and said i dont get to make all the decisions re splitting up. I said im not but im making decisions for me and the kids. Just need to keep strong. Its this point where it tends to just go back round in a circle as i hate being the bad person 😩

He's white knuckling it, which always fails. And yes, you do get to decide whether or not you divorce him. He doesn't get a say in that, especially now that we have no fault divorce law. He will make your life hell while you work through the divorce, but it will be worth it. Stay strong.

I think I would just start talking about your separation as a fact. For example, 'I think it might be confusing for the kids for us all to go to a family festival when we're separated'. You do indeed get to decide whether you divorce him or not, you could respond with 'of course I'd always want to have a good co-parenting relationship with you' - sounds positive but once again stating the separation as fact.

I agree with @pointythings he's white knuckling it trying to prove you are exaggerating the extent of his drinking problem. You aren't. When he starts drinking again, he will look to blame you for this as well. It's irrelevant. You've decided you don't want to live with any more - go forward from that point and start planning.

You mentioned him probably saying with his brother, what’s his take on all this ?
Would he actually agree to take him in ? How soon ? I think it would help you a lot if this option was immediately available for you. Or the wonderful guilting in laws, why don’t they give it a try as a lifestyle for a while ?
It gives you a bit more time and space to process and deal with sorting out your future, while having the advantage of an option for him to leave now.
Just a suggestion, if possible at all I’d definitely give it a good try. Much harder to get people out to begin with !

Stop thinking of yourself as a 'bad person' and stop letting him make you feel guilty. You are separating solely because of his behaviour, which you find intolerable, and few wouldn't. These chats won't help you move forward when he is still in obvious denial that he has a problem. You absolutely do get to make the decision about splitting up so just keep focusing on getting it done.