November 2022 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

This is the latest thread, please feel free to write as much or as little as you please.

Thank you for sharing your story, @Wheresthecheese. It helps me a lot to know that other people are going through the same struggles.

@briarhill for me it was the day I walked into my DM's house unexpectedly, my Toxic Sister was there, as was her MIL (who I knew and got on ok with), and you could have cut the atmosphere with a knife. The MIL couldn't look at me, the Toxic Sister looked totally shocked and flew into a panic and put on a great pretence of being pleased to see me, and the DM was desperately trying to act like everything was normal.

Toxic Sister and her MIL suddenly "had to leave" and got out of there like rats up drainpipes. DM waffled on about how nice it was to see me and TS together.

I thought to myself, fuck this, told DM I was sick to death of being slagged off, walked out and never spoke to any of my family of origin again.

Best decision I ever made. Caused a whole heap of fallout but who cares? Toxic people never change.

Thank you for sharing your story, @Sicario. What a horrendous train wreck! Glad you're free of them.

@briarhill - Train Wreck is actually a very good descriptor. I have learned a lot since going NC. Firstly, that when you go NC, the toxic people will really kick off. Losing the scapegoat is highly inconvenient. Who are they going to kick now? So they continue with the poison, really up the ante, and go nuclear.

Absolutely nothing I can do about it and maybe they should have thought about the consequences of their behaviour. (But toxic people are of course incapable of self-reflection or taking responsibility.)

The hardest part is the inevitable FOG. Those feelings of guilt are terrible, but THEY DO NOT BELONG TO YOU. The guilt has been programmed into you and you have nothing to feel guilty about. I describe it like a heavy overcoat of shame that you can take off because it was never yours in the first place.

Thank you, @Sicario. That's a very eloquent description. I love the idea of taking off the cloak of shame.

In my case, there's an added layer of Catholic brainwashing--I was programmed to be a martyr.

I've heard people describe escaping from a toxic family as very similar to leaving a cult. We have to escape the cult before we can experience actual reality and freedom.

Yep - catholic here too, full-on convent upbringing, some really messed-up nuns in the mix as always, deep-seated misogyny. Probably why I'm a vehement flag-waving anti-theist now. When I enter a church the holy water starts boiling in the font.

Yes also a Catholic upbringing. Could there be a link? 🤔

Catholic - Jewish - Gypsy here. Ask me about guilt.

I’ve tried explaining it to DH but I can’t - how there’s an extra ‘layer’ to everything you do/feel/experience. ‘Am undeserving of this? What is it trying to teach me? Is this a test? If I bite this apple will something ‘come back to get me’ as a punishment later? Is X a punishment because I did Y? Am I to blame for what happened to B, are they being punished because of something I did?’

It’s exhausting.

@Sicario you are so right about the toxics ramping up the shit when they know you've sussed them, challenging them or have said adios. It's exactly what we see with the Hag.

@briarhill the added Catholic guilt and let's be a good Irish catholic son is exactly what Mr Monkey has about his mother aka The Hag. I think he's got it more under control how to feeling sad for her, but not guilty. She's made this shit life for herself.
It is incredibly hard to leave the Catholic guilt behind.

She's REALLY made it shit right now.

Mr Monkey takes her to a medical appointment on Friday. Usual low level sniping and whining.

Where she tells him the latest...

Her latest is that she ‘mistakenly’ threw a binsack of clothes (rags) destined for the washing machine into the bins in her flats last Wednesday so she has no clothes.

This crap about having no clothes has been a constant drama for the last three years - she looks a state - but has really ramped up recently.

Even before chucking a bin sack of clothes into the bins, but it has been the leading feature for the last two weeks.

No, I don't want to go to Sainsburys (down the road) as I don't like trying things on or get clothes online so I can try them on at home.

It goes round and round and round into the crescendo of her usual screaming.

Something doesn't add up to me.

I strongly suspect she's thrown them away ‘accidentally on purpose’ in a fit of rage / self-loathing or calculatedly to increase the drama, the guilt and the spite. She really is that mad.

He takes her back to her lair after the appointment.

There's a guy stood outside her block of flats having a cigarette. MM drops the Hag off - more screaming.

MM goes downstairs and the guy is still outside.

“Is that your mum?
“Yes”
“I need to talk to you about her”

It seems that the ‘neighbour trouble’ which has been going on since December and we knew about isn't as straightforward as presented to us. Of course not.

Her version: “there's this man the flat downstairs from me and his telly is on so loud that I have to go down all the time to complain. He's horrible to me.”

How she could hear his TV over her 300 decibels TV is beyond me.

MM really concerned about it.

I know the conversations wouldn't have been polite, there would have been her nasty jabbing finger and her vitriol. She's a four foot eight inch bag of spleen.

MM has suggested that she talks to the Caretaker or the Housing Association - refusal - or he’ll talk to them for her.

She's in uproar about MM taking it up for her, which I should have realised often happens when something doesn't stack up. We've had this over the carers.

It turns out the neighbour (really nice) is away during the week so there is NO TV on and sometimes the Hag has been screaming at him when he's just home from work (no TV on) or in the shower. It was so bad last week that he said it's harrassment and I will report you to the police.

He’s a really nice guy just doing his best to try and sort it out and tells MM that of course, he wouldn't report her and that it's to stop her behaviour. She hasn't been around since he told her this.

MM gets home and rings her to tell her the upshot of the conversation and to put the neighbour’s version of events to her. Hag slams the phone down. Not been heard of since.

Both exercises of her utter bullshit.

Disposal of clothes - to induce more conflict.

Neighbour - to demonstrate she can’t possibly live there.

It's like a FILM.

Wow @MonkeyfromManchester. That's all I can say for now - except here's 🍷 for you and one 🍷 for MM. 🌹

MM how you have survived her over the years, I don't know. She is so mad! How on earth did Mr Monkey turn out so nicely? I have trouble with my mum and brother but nothing likes yours. My sympathy.

@Newestname002 @LadyMacbethssweetArabianhand thank you. i know! We drank a LOT of wine on Friday night.

She's absolutely mad. The more I look at her behaviour I think there's some serious mental health issues going on like psychotic scizophrenzia or something or she's possessed. Probably the latter.

She's been like this ALL her life, it's not an age related thing. I want nothing to do with her, and MM has backed away.

He's definitely the most lovely of the bunch, but he had serious mental illness in his 30s before we met. I think he felt very bitter about the psycho behaviour in his family and how they curtailed his life chances. I think he's miles happier since meeting me and my family, going to University as a mature student, living in our lovely home, holidays, a job he enjoys. His family is just so fucked. She's had him in her sights to replace slave son for years I now realise.

Anyway, nice Sunday, big dinner awaits and she's not phoned all weekend. 🙌

We will be bombarded by crap for the coming months about her clothes. Not interested.

The more I think about it, I think it was absolutely deliberate.

Of course it was deliberate. Enjoy your lovely Sunday dinner. I'm having a slow cooker chicken curry later.

Her behaviour is deliberate here, absolutely.

I would think there is more than one untreated and untreatable personally disorder along cluster B lines when it comes to MMs mother. BTW Monkey do you or MM know anything about her family background and or childhood, I ask as often these give clues.

MM needs to continue to back away and with a longer term aim to no longer seeing her.

Hi @AttilaTheMeerkat it's definitely something fishy. Like the bag of clothes into the outside bin? Hmmmm...any bin sack going into the bins means she goes down in the lift to the bins, she separates out the recycling before hand, she takes the bin sack out of the kitchen bin, a bag of clothes feels soft. Just doesn't add up. I can imagine her raging and throwing them all away. This is the culmination of her latest fixation. She will continue to rage about clothes. She's mental.

I've suggested to MM that he actually speaks to social services. He did in 2021 when she broke her arm. She needs to be on their radar. They were really good in 2021. I have no idea what we can do for her; not that we want to or what they can do. But they've seen tons of toxic old people in their time.

Childhood. Poverty, living in a slum, violent, abusive father, weird mother who I think after her husband died (Hag was seven of so) had The Hag lined up as servant (Hag was the youngest) She never talks about her childhood fondly. When MM’s dad died (MM was eight) Hag divided the family up, MM’s eldest sons went to live with aunts/uncles, MM stayed with Hag and his granny in a one bedroom flst. Almighty row one night between Hag and her DM and Hag drags MM out of his bed late at night and drags him to somewhere else. Thing is Hag had the family house, but for some reason wasn't living there. God only knows. I suspect Hag wanted to live with family as she's entitled. She's had her beady eye on living here. The latest is “i’ll go and live with Slave Son” MM no longer argues against the stupidity of this, and she knows she is NOT welcome here.

You're absolutely right. It has to be his decision. TBH, I don't think she’ll be around for much longer.

@LadyMacbethssweetArabianhand thank you. Enjoy the curry xxx

@MonkeyfromManchester
I had a couple of relatives who both struggled with severe ‘issues’. One began phoning me at 3 am for incoherent chats but she started harassing her neighbours too as she aged. At this point we had an honest chat with the GP along the lines she was a danger to herself and eventually she ended up in a secure residential unit which was best all round - poor staff though!

Monkey I have my own 'slave brother ' who lives with and leeches off mum. He is extremely paranoid and it has rubbed off on mum. He made her dependent on him when dad died and it has continued to this day. I am superficially polite when I see him but that's all. After mum insulted the entire family at New Year, no-one has seen or heard from her or toxic Tim. And that's the way it'll stay. I'm channelling my inner MM!

@Sicario, @Cuppasoupmonster, and @Thelnebriati, hugs to all my fellow Recovering Catholics. We need our own 12 Step Program. 😂

@MonkeyfromManchester, I'm so sorry you and MM have to deal with the Hag. She does sound seriously mentally ill. I wonder if meds (if she would take them) would help at all. You have my deepest sympathies. 🍷🍷(Communion wine, lol.)

Thank you @Sicario and @AttilaTheMeerkat and @MonkeyfromManchester for reminding me to not get hoovered and not to respond. I realised that this is not the first time she has tried to get in touch again. There's no point - nothing will change and there will never be any acknowledgement or apology. I think they just miss their scapegoat.

@briarhill - I have been LC for about 15 years. I always knew though from childhood I was not good enough for them and that my parents were different from anyone else. I maintained LC for that long through FOG (fear, obligation and guilt). But I went NC when my teen DS died tragically and they made his death all about them (including telling everyone that he had died whilst he was still fighting in intensive care). Later when I called them out on their disgraceful behaviour, they went into classic DAVRO mode. Whilst I was grieving in the very hardest days of my life, they didn't offer any support, added more pain and hurt. They revelled in the 'drama' of it all. I decided then to go NC. Feeling the loss and immense love for my DS, and having the kindness and support from my DH and friends, made me realise that my toxic family don't understand love or compassion or empathy and never will. My only regret is that I didn't do it sooner.

@MonkeyfromManchester - I think your DH is very lucky to have you in his life to be a great support in standing firm to the Hag. She is exhausting. People who have healthy emotionally loving relationships with their parents don't always understand. Your DH is lucky to have you and your DM too on his side.

Lastly, @Thelnebriati ,@Sicario ,@briarhill and @Cuppasoupmonster - I too am from a Catholic background. Definitely can relate to the whole Catholic guilt aspect. DM and DF favourite lines were 'honour thy father and they mother'. They like to use their religion to justify their bad behaviours, threaten me with eternal damnation and suchlike, and portray themselves as fine upstanding Catholic pillars in the Church.

I very, very low contact with my siblings. I see mum 5 days a week...sometimes i take her to appointments, shopping, out for breakfast etc but i dont hang around. I have weekends "off" and siblings are supposed to see her.
I do all her admin, meds etc
I find her very hard work.
Once mum is gone I'll never need to contact my siblings again.
Eldest daughter of Irish Catholic mother...the rot stops with me.
I have such a great relationship work my kids. They aren't extensions of me. They are their own people. They aren't my possessions. I'm incredibly proud of them both 💓

@Fluffygoon the neighbour thing has been there always, it’s been with different neighbours when she’s lived in different places. She likes conflict. Secure residential unit would be fab. Throw away the key. Thing is she never behaves this with way with anyone outside the immediate family. Batshit.

@briarhill she thinks there’s NOTHING wrong with her behaviour. She’d never take medication. Communion wine all round. Loads of it. Swop the wafers for cheese.

@MyFragility hugs to you. Definitely missing their scapegoat, conflict and drama. Good on you for avoiding. I’m so, so sorry that you’ve had to endure that. I can’t even begin to imagine. My heart goes out to you. Xxx the Hag portrays herself as a lovely old woman and a good catholic. Such nonsense.

@Chevyimpala67 the way you talk about your children ❤️❤️❤️ Beautiful. The rot stops with your DM. Exactly.

@LadyMacbethssweetArabianhand Toxic Tim. 😹😹😹😹

The Hag realises she’s overstepped the mark and has got Slave Son to ring this evening. No apology is conveyed. This is manipulation. MM says it as soon as he puts the phone down.

Apparently, she’s bought the Prince Harry book and wants to lend it to MM. 😹 Howling with laughter. It’s the least likely book for him - he reads philosophy (like you do!). Peace offering? Most unusual bribe. Maybe she’s swotting up on dysfunctional families? 😹

She’s now going shopping for clothes on Friday. Maybe, the ‘incident of the disappearing bin sack’ has dawned on her. Thankfully, MM has dodged the shopping bullet. Slave Son’s problem.

It will be Murder In Matalan.

Monkey I so want to write that book! Murder in Matalan with The Hag, slave son and toxic Tim.

@LadyMacbethssweetArabianhand Best seller!