November 2022 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

This is the latest thread, please feel free to write as much or as little as you please.

@Sicario you are so right. MM doesn't want her here either. It's the last bit of pretending to be a normal family / giving her a nice life / I'm a good catholic / kind person for him. Actually, scrap the first one - he knows that's a fiction. Possibly a bit of nice life, but he knows that's impossible. I think it's the good Irish catholic boy / kind person thing.

As we’ve stepped away and stood up to her BS, that she knows Xmas is her last chance saloon. You would think IF you knew that you would keep a lid on it and try to pretend to be normal???? Or just silent. Lots of self-sabotage with her as well as the abuse of other people.

I'm really wrestling with what to do. Really wished I’d booked that pub xmas meal in time. Schoolboy error. Need to talk to MM - it's interesting that (and he's a huge planner) that there are no massive lists of peel the potatoes at x time and he's not given me (wholly undomesticated) basic tasks etc etc. He's as disinvested as me in this Xmas Day. I also think he's fully expecting her to kick off and not come. Like I say, I need that conversation with him.

Many people here have remarked on her being a panto dame. She is.

She screamed at MM that he was “evil” and that she “would never forgive him!” the other day. Forgive him for what? Trying to help? Hosting the bitch in our house?

I started laughing at that point

Her raging: ‘monkey, why are you laughing? Monkey! Monkey, why are you laughing?’ I just walked out of the room.

@MonkeyfromManchester Can't you take a really fugly old plate with the food on over to her...you, not Mr M. That way you can chuck it at her when she kicks off.
You both really need to pack your bags tomorrow and bugger off to your mums. Phones off.

God, @fancyacuppatea i would love that. We've got friends who are 86 and 66 coming for dinner tonight and they are bloody CHEERFUL older people. Just phoned MM who's on the tram home from work and he sounded really fucked off so maybe she's kicked off and isn't coming. If she has I think I might make an intervention and say this is now intolerable and there are no ifs and buts. Thinking it all through.

Utter nightmare.

@MonkeyfromManchester After the week you've had with the cow (and I thought mine was bad) she'd be lucky to be pelted with pigs-in-blankets and stuffing balls. One thing that would NEVER happen would be her coming into my home again.
Time to put your foot down. Ring your Mum and get her to ask DH if he'd like to just come over a day early and start Christmas on Saturday.
Your MIL can choke on some instant noodles.

Mm- it’ll make my Christmas Day , if I get up on Christmas morning and read that the HAG is Home Alone on Christmas Day . Disgusting woman . I don’t understand why she still has a invite . Would he feel guilty if she was at home .? If she does end up coming just pray she chokes on ya Brussels !

@fancyacuppatea @Ydkiml thankyou. It’s 4am and I’m awake stressing or maybe that’s the huge amount of food in my stomach from last night’s lovely meal. My fantastic neighbours who are older and going through the mill with the start of dementia for one and the other worried sick about her elderly parents in China in the Covid crisis are such exemplars of growing old with grace. Such good fun.

mr Monkey HAD been subjected to haggery yesterday. Many phone calls about her going downstairs to the bins - seven flights down as the lifts are still erratic.

The fucking shit housing association haven’t overseen the best repairs, although I wouldn’t put it past her to have sabotaged the lifts herself.

She doesn’t NEED to put the bins out as she has THREE care calls a day. Why phone? To make a drama. The usual screaming and shouting when HE IS AT WORK IN A FRONTLINE CHARITY. She then by manipulation levers him to ring Slave son to get involved. WTAF. He knows he’s being played.

MM knows it’s abuse, but is worried about her with the lift and her falling so had his phone ON. Idiot.

He knows he’s being manipulated. He articulates that really clearly now. He spoke about it with our friends last night. He’s ok with me telling lovely SIL - hag’s daughter in law who Hag hates - up in Scotland what’s going on. Before he was ashamed. For three years he’s been increasingly open about how horrible she is and really opened up about his terrible childhood. And had proper counselling for complex PTSD.

He just needs to get ok with telling her to fuck off. I know it’s our house and she’s bringing her scaly body into our house , but I need HIM to say the words “you’re not coming”. I’m not asking him to disinvite her - he needs to make that decision. It’s on the tip of his tongue, I can see. It’s probably my counselling training kicking in - let your client realise the decision themselves. Fuck human centred counselling sometimes (although it is the best!)

I know he has residues of guilt - well, that comes and goes - about her being alone at Xmas. This BS is designed by the Hag to elicit the “you’re not coming” so she can wallow in self-pity and blame us (well, me in the main as I’m the villain who fought back and empowered MM to take back control and IS STILL WITH HIM) He told me himself that Bin Gate “it’s all about wrecking Xmas” “she wants a fall”

me: “yes, she does”
him: “she’s not coming here if she fell”

He knows. I know. My mum knows. Slave Son knows or is so deep in Stockholm syndrome that he thinks this toxicity is entirely fucking normal. The Hag knows.

This entire situation is entirely intolerable now. What’s so Fucking infuriating is being cornered by an 86 year old witch.

I want to disinvite her myself, but this is part of the game. I know it’s my house too. In her sick head, we’re the villains in the piece but I’m not going to be the stereotypical evil stepdaughter by saying the words for Mr Monkey. I know in my bones she’s pushing for that as part of the split them up campaign. She actually called him evil the other day. You couldn’t make it up. It’s laughable. I started laughing at that.

I’ve got a ton of fucking work to do - I was supposed to break up on Tuesday but haven’t - due to a ditz of a client and this BS.

I imagine he’ll face another torrent of shit tomorrow. Hopefully, this will be the switch.

I’m going to do a meditation and go back to sleep. Tomorrow is another day.

I was the PP who introduced you to that useful expression "extinction burst", more commonly employed when dealing with little ones. The unwanted behaviour has previously worked just fine, from the toddler's POV. Now boundaries are being set. How very dare you! So before acquiescence, let's try upping the ante. If this causes a backing down, the status quo is restored; maybe quicker and easier, if another attempt is made to curb unwanted behaviour, to go straight to the bigger tantrum.
It is almost impossible for you, mired in this horrible situation to dredge up any sort of empathy, but if you can see it from The Hag's point of view, she must be descending into a state of complete blind panic. The tactics which worked so well for so long, are not working. Up the ante. Stronger boundaries are enforced. And she is increasingly aware of losing her physical powers as well. Throw in some old-style Catholic teaching on guilt and coming to judgement, and misery grows greater. The horrible realisation that she sowed the wind, and is reaping the whirlwind, is getting harder to deny to herself.
But blowed if all around her should suffer collateral damage!
Hang on in there!

I don't often comment on this thread, though read it from time to time and it helps me a bit, with feeling less alone.

Xmas is a hard time of year, always has been. There have been many years where I've tried to make effort with my parents. But I'm as sure as I can be by now, that any such effort will be thrown in my face and used against me. So the effort is now in keeping them at arms length and away from being able to get a reaction from me or impact my children.

This is easiest with my father, as after his actions I'll have nothing to do with him. He at least seems to get this and stay away. He's never really been in my life and when he has, I've experienced him as an overt sort of narc (once he shows his true colours). So, absence in his case isn't hard to deal with.

My mother is more complex. I spent years giving her the benefit of the doubt but now think it's clear she is more the covert narc type. Presents as a bit of a victim until you figure out she's not that, it's a cover. She's goady but if you call her out on her actions she will quickly accuse you of something, and tell everyone how unreasonable you are. In this relationship I think I'm the scapegoat, always and my sister the golden child. Mother will run around doing anything and everything, for my sister and her children and the opposite for me and mine. And will make sure I know that's what she's doing through little throwaway comments (that aren't throwaway but seem to be).

So far this year a few things have happened. Last Xmas was the last time I experienced mother say she'd turn up to see my kids in Xmas day then cancel in favour of the pub in the morning, after we based the day around her and waited for her to turn up. Last year I told her clearly to stay away from us and not expect to see them at Xmas again. Which made me the baddie and someone to be mocked for my over reaction. This year, about 6 weeks ago I discovered by accident that mother had booked a holiday for herself for Xmas, I think was planning to tell me at the last minute, as a smug way to show she can't see us. I don't care, I don't want her around. I prefer her to be away.

She has given me some money for the children's presents. They still believe in santa but the other day we went to hand her present over from them, and she made a point of asking in front on them what her money bought. They haven't seen their presents yet as it's not xmas day for one thing, and for another is it really that hard for an adult to let them pretend? It's like she can't bear to not have the recognition. Or probably just asked to get a reaction out of me.

She looks craftily at me at moments like this. It's like she is trying to press my buttons. So I try hard not to react, but it's hard. Inwardly I'm wanting to punch her and I walk away from interactions with her full of rage.

I would go nc, but due to my work and being a single parent sometimes she's the only option I have for random out of hours childcare. I wish it weren't so. I figure once the DC are old enough I can walk away. Am really looking forward to that. Freedom.

I find myself feeling so bitter and twisted at what should be a nice, caring and homely time of year for families. I know that's the ideal, plenty of people don't have that ideal family. I never did, never stopped wanting it though. Somewhere to go and just be accepted, and loved and cared for.

xx

@twoshedsjackson that explanation has helped me immeasurably. You are so right.

She is hugely resentful of the boundaries that are now set in stone. She can't believe that over the last three years she doesn't the rule the roost with us. Obviously, she is throwing everything at us to get the status quo to exactly the way she wants it. Not. Going. To. Happen.

She is getting frailer, but she is not under any circumstances having us as carers - she has a perfectly good care arrangement - or god forbid Vile Old Person Day Care or Hotel Hag. She is totally panicking.

I'm not looking forward to Xmas Day but now it's box sets tonight, good lunch and theatre tomorrow, sanity tomorrow with my mum and the arrival of Hag on Xmas Day at 3pm for a couple of hours.

I can't predict her behaviour - no one can - she will either be sweetness and light (her version), emotional blackmail (poor old lady) or rage to get her own way of a week in the country and a cushy life at my mum’s.

Thank you so much for your words of wisdom.

Have a great Xmas.

6poundshower

I would seriously consider finding other childcare as your parents are not emotionally safe enough to be around. She is also using your kids as a form of narcissistic supply and for them to adore her. Her behaviour also re your kid’s Christmas presents is also very typical of how narcissists behave.

If one or both parents are too toxic difficult or otherwise too batshit for you to deal with, it’s the same deal for your kids too.

Monkey

Just when I thought the Hag could not stoop any lower she has further lowered the bar. I hope she does not visit your home because that’s going to be an extremely long two hours if that happens. If MM can confront her this could well be his finest hour.

am back from holiday in sunny 😎 climes next week and would like to wish all the Stately homers past and present peace and goodwill.

Hi all, I'm new to this thread, and trying to work out if what I experienced as a child was emotional abuse. I've started therapy as becoming a parent has made me reflect on how I was parented.

Currently struggling to know how to respond... DF (who may be a narcissist) says he is ill but he and DM (who supports his lies) have previously lied about life-threatening health conditions so I don't know how to feel.

Wish I could detach myself from it. I am going to see them over Christmas so I feel like have to figure out how to handle it.

Hi, hope you don't mind me joining..its been a while!
So my classic narc dm and df were staying with us for a few days recently. They live 3hrs away so pretty much always have to stay with us when they visit (which isn't actoften thankfully). Whilst the main reason they visit is to see the grandkids they actually busy themselves with tidying and cleaning my house
(despite it already being done but not to my dm's high standards) and generally making narky comments about my home/things i have or havent done. They end up spending very little time with the kids. I never ask them to look after the kids as from experience it gives them a sense of entitlement, often throwing things back at us at a later date, insinuating we're not grateful or thankful enough. If they stay for any more than 2 nights there tends to be some kind of altercation,my dm snapping at nothing/blaming us for something petty/generally causing bother and holding a grudge for days after. This time round, without going into too much detail my dh put a foot out of place with my already grumpy df (he had reached his limit for being around little kids by this point) which caused my df to say to dh he wasn't happy with the way one of my kids had spoken to him and that it wasn't appropriate. Tbf he said this in a fairly civil way but then stated my dh should apologise to my dm too. Now this is where I'm stumped...she made things so personal (as she always does during confrontation) completely going off topic and stating 'she bites her tongue about alot of things'.
I know she probably doesn't agree with alot of our (gentle) parenting style, she's old school, kids should be seen not heard let alone have an opinion or god forbid challenge anyone. She also made comment as to how my dh was brought up. Both of which really annoy and hurt me. My dh is a fab dad to my kids, and after 12 years together they know him well enough to know this too. I feel I want to question her as to what she meant about biting her tongue but I know I'll be met with rage, blame, guilt tripping from past experiences. It annoys me even more they were under my roof and behaving this way! How do I deal with these situations? I don't think I have the strength to challenge her/can be bothered bringing it up but I also can't seem to put it to bed! As an aside i have started grey stoning her alot, the endless texts and missed calls daily. Help!

@6poundshower I agree Christmas really magnifies the dysfunction v everyone else having happy family time (probably not totally realistic!)
They also know what buttons to press because they sewed them on - to a degree that when you really step back- is actually sociopathic.

As a family unit we had no choice to find alternative childcare when DCs were little as MIL wouldn’t babysit or help in anyway- always little digs what she was doing for Golden daughter. In retrospect she did us a favour as we had to put her and her family of flying monkeys on a bench and move forward with friends picked up through school/ sport and other activities.
Wishing you a peaceful Christmas.

@AttilaTheMeerkat @Sicario I know it’s Christmas Eve so not really in the spirit of the season - but could I pm either of you by any chance? Need to unpick something and can’t understand it, not even after running it by DP and my DFriend.

Hi all,

I just wanted to pop on and wish everyone a happy and peaceful Christmas. This forum had helped me immeasurably and I'm incredibly grateful for you all.

@AttilaTheMeerkat I hope you have a great rest of your holiday.

@MonkeyfromManchester fingers crossed for you for Christmas day. Hope you have a break from the hag.

@duvets the same happened to me. I think it's a common theme that when you have you're own children you reflect and realise you couldn't imagine doing to your childrdn what they did to you. It's a horrible realisation. I hope you manage to find a way through the period without too much stress, could you set yourself some boundaries like seeing them away from your house so if you need to leave you can easily and give them little info and avoid health questions? My mum who I am now nc with once told me she had cancer and she didn't, she's been dying of various other things over the years too.

Happy Christmas all!

@Hardpillow thank you. I'm not the only one then - it feels like a shameful secret as the lies have never been dealt with.

Happy Xmas everyone. Everyone like SIL is now aware of what a nightmare Hag is being. Not pretending anymore.

MM reckons the focus of her spite will be Slave Son as she will nag him about his drinking so he can't enjoy himself. We have bought him gin.

Mummy Monkey has arrived with the contents of a pub and a bottle of sherry with the plan to shut her up.

Will get through it and then its off to Mummy Monkey’s on Boxing Day.

I'm on trip hazard duty later.

@NCcaterpillar - feel free to DM me.

@MonkeyfromManchester - are you running a tote on The Hag "having a fall"? If so, I'm staking my last 50p on it.

Of course NC Caterpillar, feel free

@Sicario 😂 we’re arranging the house in such a way that it would be difficult for a “fall” to happen. She’s very frail (but still manages to conjure up vast reserves of evil from her tiny frame) so Mr Monkey accompanies her up the stairs to the bathroom and stands guard outside.

She did manage some fantastic dramatic moments on Tuesday when she was the Loathed Lodger of getting up from our sofa and walking around our living room proclaiming it was like being in a prison. I think we run some kind of Swedish prison with tea and digestives regularly served.

She has no idea how utterly ridiculous she is. Hopefully this is her last Xmas.

Mm- I don’t want to worry you but I think she may fake chest pains or something like that to cause drama / maybe even a 999 call . Please try n find the humour side to the day and remember, we are all thinking of you . Merry Christmas to all the amazing people that n here . X

@Ydkiml thank you!

She's too scared of figures of authority like doctors etc to pull that one. She will, however, do I've not taken x, y, z medicine for x, y, z NO REASON.

She tried Covid last year (didn't have it) on the eve of us going away, then it was a cough that made her sick all night (but remarkably no cough in the morning) and then flu (she was still able to go shopping with Slave Son.

I think she thinks she's won because we’re not at my mum’s, but WE WILL BE TOMORROW! And this way - rather than being at Mummy Monkey’s - we actually see less of her. 🤣

And my mum is here as chilled as ever.

Long time lurker here with seriously damaged relatives in the past and present but not a contributor. Wishing everybody peaceful and drama free day ((()))🎄