November 2022 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

This is the latest thread, please feel free to write as much or as little as you please.

There's so much hurt on this thread but so much wisdom and kindness from all you posters. I can't tell you how much I've learned here, thank you to all who post.

On being the black sheep @HoldingBackTheTide @Fluffygoon and all those who feel the narcissistic mother's job is complete, do you ever feel that for everyone (including yourself) it's obvious who is the problem and it's like there's a parallel universe where everyone is nice and doing the right thing and it's just you the loon, the nasty piece of work? I do. If I don't see it I must be the narcissistic one. I know what is true, what they did, but what if I am the crazy one.
I told my mother that she's won, that I've lost, I don't have a family, my DCs don't have a family. Of course she hasn't managed to split DH and I, or to get to my younger DCs, but she has truly blighted all our lives. I feel eviscerated, damaged, dirty.
Looking back I don't remember liking or trusting her as a child, I saw her as a witch, I had nightmares where she appeared as a witch. Growing up there was never any comfort from her, no warmth, no understanding, no reassurance ever, just the judgements, the insults, the little smirk if I failed. I was 11 when she called me a maggot, I think that's the day I understood something was wrong with her too, not just with me then.
What hurts almost more than what goes with for a lifetime of this, was realising I also had to let go off the people I loved. I understand they don't want to get 'involved', I don't understand why they don't question her version, well I do understand, she twists everything to fit her narrative, I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't, and no one wants to peer in this dark well, an unnatural mother, no not in our family. Even though I've been NC for years and lived in a different country for decades, I'm the bane of her life. I can't do it anymore, not with her, not with my sibling, not with the flying monkeys. But there's no place on earth, or in my heart, that her malevolence cannot reach.

I really admire @MonkeyfromManchester for how willing to see her MM for what she is, for how she supports her DH. I am sad that it hurts her, but by golly, she doesn't run from it and pretends. Such understanding and empathy are rare.

@MyFragility I send you much love. I cannot bear the thought of what your family has put you through, these people are truly beyond. I hope you stay strong. I went to stay with my father, in similar circumstances, and I won't do it for my mother. Everything you do with goodwill and out of decency is misused.
They take every opportunity to hurt, as you know, nothing is beneath them. Protect yourself.

@Catopdemat I hear you. The damage lasts a lifetime, doesn't it? And children do pick up on it. You are not the problem, she is. But all that malice makes it almost impossible to not blame yourself. I'm sorry that it still haunts you (unsurprisingly), but I'm happy for you that you are NC and she can't reach you and hasn't split your relationship up. My partner still has nightmares, but far less frequently.

Thank you. God, it's been a journey. I've seen her for what she is. I think I felt it in my guts right at the beginning, but because I'm a good person I doubted anyone can be that vile. Big lesson in trusting gut instinct. I don't think she can believe how we're fighting back by cutting her out and not rising to her toxicity which she used to thrive on. She's sick in the head. She's also 86 next year...

By bringing our stories together here like this, we can see patterns of behaviour with dysfunctional (or downright toxic) family members. It's so helpful and good to know that it's not us. It's them.

That thing about wanting to ruin any happy occasion. Always finding a way to spoil it for everybody else or create an unholy drama. What's all that about? It's like they can't bear for you to be happy when they are so bloody miserable, or jealous, or whatever. So they have to smash everything up.

I know now that all the effort I put in with my mother must have been borne out of guilt. FOG is a powerful thing. My feelings about her must have been a mire of confusion because the fact was I didn't like her. She was a violent and abusive nightmare parent and should have been locked up for what she did to me.

My toxic sister is cut from the same cloth. Another awful woman who ruins special occasions as she will always find things to kick off about or deliberately spoil surprises. Wrecked birthdays, christmases, bringing the kids to tears when they were little, saying the most awful things then walking away with her nose in the air. Nobody likes her. And when she does make friendships, they never last long. It will always be the other person's fault.

Staying away from vexatious people is one of my basic life rules. Even if you're related to them.

@MonkeyfromManchester well done on getting yourself a week away from your undesirable guest ! It’s so hard to grin and bear it. I’m sure you’ll have a much nicer time working away 😬

Xmas party with my lovely colleagues, staying for a week with my amazing boss and his dog in his great house. Got the better deal. 🤣

On being the black sheep @HoldingBackTheTide @Fluffygoon and all those who feel the narcissistic mother's job is complete, do you ever feel that for everyone (including yourself) it's obvious who is the problem and it's like there's a parallel universe where everyone is nice and doing the right thing and it's just you the loon, the nasty piece of work? I do. If I don't see it I must be the narcissistic one. I know what is true, what they did, but what if I am the crazy one.

@Catopdemat , this resonated so much for me, I felt it in my gut. It's amazing the trip they lay on us and make us bear the family shame and disgrace. And if we question this, we're seen as the sick and difficult ones. For resisting abuse and actually wanting a self, ourselves, back.

Many hugs.

Mr Monkey had the joy of taking The Hag for a medical appointment this morning and picking her up at 10.30am.

The phone started ringing at 10am. After he finishes what he's doing he rings her back (three calls before he rings back)
‘Where are you? You don't answer your phone.’ angry opening greeting.
‘Lovely to speak to you too, mum.’ breezy

He takes her to the appointment where she kicks off in the WAITING ROOM as she is furious that he won't get involved in the covert skirmishes with her DIL ostensibly about DIL not needing to get Hag a Xmas present - in other words spiteful rejection - and MM refuses to be the messenger & get embroiled & hurt SIL feelings. Hag can do it.

Somehow linked to this is “I sit here starting at four walls” BS.

Hag thinks everyone should ring her, she makes no effort as she is QUEEN OF THE UNIVERSE. Yet again MM bats it back with ‘phone people, go out’ etc etc

At least she didn't start laying it on re Xmas and us hosting her at my mum’s. This is sure to emerge in the coming weeks. She’ll see an opportunity for thd guilt when I, away for work 12 - 19 Dec. WITCH.

Thank you and much the same to you @briarhill Ultimately, we know who we are, what we stand for, that's the problem they have. Where our resistance and resilience come from I have no idea, but they're here for a reason.

And the circus goes on @MonkeyfromManchester Being away from it will do you good. You've been gearing up for the Christmas showdown for a year now, if you can, trust the plan, trust the process, don't think anything more easier said than done.

@Catopdemat this is the thing, isn't it? All the incredible people on this forum who have some much strength of character despite the abuse they've survived.

I know! It's ridiculous that we have to put with the Xmas pantomine with her.

Great conversation with Mr Monkey last night where I got more detail on his morning with The Hag. Due to his refusal to get involved with Present Gate, Hag starts shouting at him in the waiting room and when that doesn't work puts her head down like a small sulky child. As he said last night, she’ll bully Slave Son into being the poisoned messenger to tell SIL to not bother with gifts.

Then we had the pity party of “I stare at four walls” all day and “I never see my family”.

Then she perks up

“Have you heard from Golden Boy?”

Golden Boy is the absolute twat who terrorised my partner as a child, he pulled a gun on my partner once - no idea whether it was a replica, GB was so dodgy it could have been real - and went on to be serially horribly abusive to women. GB hasn't been in touch with us for about 10 years.

“No, have you?”

I don't think the Hag can bear to think about how GB has rejected her. Or believe it.

So, it morphs into “I've never met my granddaughter”

The granddaughter was born from one of his many affairs when GB was still married. We think he's still with the mother. God knows.

No one has seen the granddaughter, although he ‘very kindly’ offered to introduce her to my nephews. The nephews he's not seen over five years and gives no financial support to. The boys, unsurprisingly, weren't remotely interested.

“Well, you never see your grandsons or even phone them so I don't understand the reasoning about wanting to see her.”

I was thinking about the fixation with the granddaughter. A way of wangling her way back into GB’s life? Is it The Hag wanting a baby to dote over? Narc showtime, of course. Maybe, she always wanted a daughter? Good God, when I think about the absolute horror of being her DAUGHTER words fail me.

When she brings up the DGD it is about guilting her sons into contacting GB. MM or Slave Son have absolutely no desire to see the twat.

I wonder if he’ll turn up at The Hag’s death bed or funeral. I doubt it.

@MonkeyfromManchester Then we had the pity party of “I stare at four walls” all day and “I never see my family”.

My narc MIL always come out with ‘I never hear from the DDs, they never come round’ invariably at that precise moment the phone rings…’Oh hello DD’ 🙄

I have spoken to my DM and about my Stepmum and told her I need to go NC with Stepmum. I have to tell my dad over done this week as I will be busy won't be able to go shopping.
Actually reading the message back it said they all wanted to take me out to buy something. But will definitely not go just tell him my anxiety bad not feeling well.
I think he knows I don't want to see her but playing dumb.
I won't be forced to see her now. NC is best.

Hi all, im sorry to just message rather than reply to others posts. but im at a loss as to what to do. my dm text tonight to say she loves me and has done what I asked in not contacting me and she hopes I'm happy. She also WhatsApp'd my son to say she'd tried to resolve things with me and was sorry she couldn't see him. She has contacted him once in two years n saw him only 3 times over covid.

About an hr before my gran had called to see if I was going to call my dm as she was desperate. A few weeks ago she told me my dm had pneumonia and i should csll her because it may be too late- she didnt as I'd checked with my dB. I was really close to my gran previously but not since going nc with nm.

I've been nc on my side over a year. In that time I've understood more of my past and thd things that happened that shouldn't have.

My question isn't about contact but about suicide threats. I have a feeling that this is what they're leading up to as there is history especially with Christmas on the horizon.

What do you do if they threaten that and what if they ctually try? I feel like I'm being held to account for it before they've even said it. My dm has said all sorts in the past and isn't stable although I wonder if its an act sometimes too.

My head is spinning and I can't think straight.

I can't be responsible can I or should I text to make sure? I've wrote that knowing the znswer is no but the what ifs are driving me mad.

Yes, the black sheep and the dumping of the shame and guilt. It’s just so so hard.
My mother always starts phoning other relatives expressing ‘concern’ about me and playing the lovely mother card when I distance myself. She acts as though I’m at fault when she was the one spitting out venomous spite at me. No one else witnesses it apart from OH occasionally. So I’m always viewed as the difficult one who causes trouble. My siblings stick together and close ranks against me. It’s such a lonely place to be.

I’m currently in another phase of NC after a nasty outburst from her. I just can’t cope with it anymore.

@Hardpillow Sorry to read what you're going through, it must be very stressful for you. These people are really messing with your head. It seems that you have told your mother you need space, but she has decided she has given enough space and has messaged you and also your son. You don't say what age he is but it seems to me that it was really inappropriate for her to contact your son.

Perhaps blocking them (you and your son) might give you some peace? My "mother" blew things up last year and I blocked her, but it was quite a while, too long really, before I blocked everyone else as I hadn't really understood how thoroughly my "mother" had caused me to be alienated from other family members who I thought cared. I had flying monkeys putting pressure on me and felt almost terrorised by my phone whenever it beeped with a new message. (Read up on flying monkeys, sounds like your gran is one).

As to suicide threats, if you have any cause for concern, do not engage. Call the police and tell them your concerns and they will do a welfare check. You are not responsible for your DM. Keep reminding yourself of that. Those what ifs can cause huge stress which is why I suggest blocking.

I've posted about the Insight podcasts a few times, presented by psychotherapists Helen Villiers and Katie McKenna. They have been really validating for me and you could try listening to see if you find them helpful.
This one particularly mentions suicide threats, I haven't listened to it yet so I don't know how much advice is given but you could give it a go podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcast/behind-closed-doors/id1613030538?i=1000555190521

I would appreciate some suggestions on weather I should go for this shopping with my DF, Stepmum.

Someone said I should go yesterday but my stepmum as nightmare and I just don't think I can do it. She not congratulated me on my pregnancy and I just don't need the extra stress. Even my own DM said she could get you on your own and say something nasty. Which is probably what will happen so I rather make up something and say I can't go.

I am actually dreading next week 7th now. I know this week I will be very busy and literally none stop figured out saying I need rest after this week and just say I can't go shopping. I honestly don't want to see her.

The thing is when someone been bad to you so many times and you have backed down so much and keep trying but the more you try all they do is the same over and over it gets to the point where enough is enough. I am at that point with my Stepmum. No more chances no more putting my feelings aside for my dad or anyone. I need to say that's it now.

If any suggestions on what I should say to my DF about next week would be helpful.

That's sounds very stressful, personally I wouldn't do it. Ask you Dad if you can meet up with him for a quick coffee and a catch up for the two of instead, and see what he says.
If he refuses, or agrees and brings your step mum, you can also take a step back from the relationship.

@Changename4 avoid, avoid, avoid. Seek out time with your dad. It's not worth feeling guilty about a relationship that doesn't make you happy.

@Hardpillow yep, the suicide attempts are, as you know, a way of guilt tripping you. Like @Escapingafter50years i’d get the police involved with a welfare check. She might be shamed into thinking she's wastimg police time, embarrassed. Do not give into the guilt. My MIL pulls the ‘i’m going to jump off the roof’ trick all the time. We’ve given up on the whole drama of it. Ultimately, though, what kind of attention seeking person pulls that trick? It's nasty.

@Labourthepoint we hear you. Hugs. It is real. Keep strong.

Mr Monkey has just arrived home on his phone to The Hag.

Apparently, she has had this disgusting looking canker on her face for a couple of months which despite, or because, MM is trying to persuade her to go to the doctors she won't. Better to guilt trip everyone. Carer today said she should get it looked at so she decides she WILL go.

Sounds awful, but I hope it is something sinister as I'm sick to the back teeth of how she makes our life as grim as f**k. She contributes nothing good at all to anyone’s life. Of course, if it IS something dodgy she will revel in the drama of it all. And if it is something dodgy, Xmas will become even more difficult and dramatic.I know one thing, though - her care will not be on my to do list and there's no fucking way she's coming here to be nursed as her behaviour is vile and disgusting.

@Labourthepoint - I feel like we have very similar past experiences.

Yes - to being treated differently to siblings and expected to get on with things and be ignored - and everything revolves around religion - usually claiming that they were holier than thou. That has continued into my adulthood. Also, I was always expected to make allowances for my dsis. Thankfully no more now that I am NC!

Also, I was interested when you said that you don't visit your mum enough and don't take an interest in her life. My parents used to do exactly the same! However, the excellent podcasts that @Escapingafter50years recommends discussed this topic. Toxic parents expect us to do the running after them and yet never make an effort themselves. They use us as emotional dumping grounds which is not how a parent should behave with their child. I also realised it is a classic feeling of feeling obligated and guilty. When I visit my friends, we visit one another because we want to and enjoy each other's company. I have never felt that with my family as even when I did visit them, nothing was good enough and it was full of complaints about what I have done/didn't do/should do etc etc. I am so happier without them all in my life. It was hard at first but I feel like it is getting easier as time goes by.

@MonkeyfromManchester and @AttilaTheMeerkat - thank you for comparing toxic parents to toddlers and being stuck at the age of 6. This is so true. They behave exactly like that - ie

• they want to be adored and worshipped
• they want their own way
• if they can't get it, they throw a tantrum or sulk
• they can't/don't/won't listen to reason
• they can only think in the moment
• they cannot self-reflect or consider the impact of their actions on others
• They constantly like to test boundaries
• They don't like criticism (unless they are giving it)
• They don't like to admit when they are wrong or have behaved badly -- preferring instead to deny or lie or blame others

@Hardpillow - stay strong. When I went nc with my DM - she too started lovebombing me messages via my dc and DH. She also keeps saying she is really sick and piling on the guilt. She too makes out to other people that she is the victim and that she is so sad etc etc that I no longer contact her. It is really hard I must admit - but I constantly remind myself how badly she has let me down - and even in her attempts to re-engage there is no remorse or apology or acknowledgement about how she has failed me - so that makes it easier for me to stay firm. Once again it is all about her. In fact, when it was my DS's anniversary - my DM messaged DH to ask him what he thought of a song she wanted for her funeral. WTAF!!!!

I too sometimes worry that my DDs may go NC with me - I would hate it. But then I know deep down that I have brought up my dc completely differently and if I ever upset them I would respond in an entirely different way to my parents. I'm sure you are the same.

@AttilaTheMeerkat - you always give sound advice. Thank you. You don't really say much about your own personal experiences - but when you do, I find there are many shared experiences which I find comforting to know that I am not alone in them e.g .your parents not having much to do with your dc and that they have taught you a good lesson in how not to behave.

@MonkeyfromManchester - I love hearing about The Hag and how she tries to re-engage, play games, create havoc, and be just downright nasty. She would make a good pantomime character! I also admire the way that you stay strong with your boundaries. I can imagine both you and MM are polite but firm with her.

I

@RoseJam @MonkeyfromManchester
It is so good to feel heard, and its a relief you can relate RoseJam. I think my mother has arrested emotional development. Her voice when she was complaining about my lack of interest was a childish whine. I have sympathy for her as she had a very sad childhood, but I can't take her criticism and abuse anymore. It is so true that she won't take responsibility for how she behaves and what she says. She tells my siblings that she just can't understand what she does that upsets me. (All wide eyed and trying so hard to understand. )Not.

At the moment I just don't know what to . I am relieved not to feel I have to visit her, phone her, respond to her messages. I have an excuse. However we have been here over and over again and part of me just wants to smooth things over and keep going through the motions. Just so I am not totally ostracised from the family and don't have the guilt of it all when she dies. She is 85, and lonely. I'm so brainwashed I still think there is something wrong with me, it's all my fault. If only I was different/better she would love me. On the other hand, the relief of just not engaging again would be immense.

I'm sorry to talk about myself so much and not respond to the stories of others. There are so many posts, many from posters who have been on this site for a while. I need to let it all seep in slowly.

Here goes I have thought so hard about posting this......
My mum sold her house moved into sheltered accomodation. Whilst the sale was going through the money was going to many different things but she said I will always see you and your sister right.It was a lovely thought and she gifted me a nice amount of money for a new car.
I then finds out my sister has been gifted 8 times as much as mum is buying her rented house for her. She said I don't need more as I have always worked hard and have all i need unlike my sister who made a shit choice and likes to spend. My husband was made redundant and we paid our mortgage off so we have made sacrifices in our savings. I also feel penalised for having a comfortable life.
What is eating away at me is that our mum says she treats us the same but clearly she doesn,t and this is such a blatent example.My sister has no need to save now she is all over socials out at gigs,restaurants my mum's even paying her solicitors fees for her.How do I get past this.

You don't have to get past that, its awful. At least now you know where you stand with both of them. When you look back, every time you suspected you were being treated second best you weren't imagining it, you were right.

From now on focus on the family you made, and look to the future.

I feel your pain. My mother pays for my sisters children’s music lessons, buys her expensive clothes and sends her money at the drop of a hat. Me.. I get nothing. It’s always been that way. It really hurts.

@wowserstrousers Try not to let it get to you. Easier said than done, I know. My toxic sister and BIL had been living out of my mother's bank account for years. I looked up the probate thing recently and saw that the value of the estate is way less than it should be. I have been removed as executor and replaced by BIL. All kinds of underhand goings on of course.

Some people have zero morals and will use lies and aggression to defend the indefensible. I made a decision not to rise to any of it which is part and parcel of being NC.

I prefer to let the silence speak for itself. (Even though the temptation to turn into a screaming banshee and burn their house down is very real. Staying zen is hard sometimes.)

The money thing is an absolute nightmare and based purely in power play. We get ridiculous amounts of £££ from the Hag which 1) we don't need 2) is power play 3) a bribe which the Hag thinks makes the vile behaviour OK 4) guilt trip as she's always going on about her poverty

Just had a brilliant session with my counsellor where I talked again about not giving a fuck whether the canker on her face is cancer, how I'm not doing care duties, she's not wrecking Xmas and she's not coming here to Monkey Hospice. She deserves nothing from us. Counsellor applauded my boundaries and perspective.
“You don't owe her anything. She has been horrible to you and there has been years of abuse of your partner”

Really good to hear that.

Ladies, we owe them nothing.