November 2022 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

This is the latest thread, please feel free to write as much or as little as you please.

"Can I come with you? I drink more than Evian and being a Gemini like you I am very good company".

Sadly its all booked and paid for now but if I had enough money I would have an event at a country house for all us Stately Homers past and present and have Susan Forward as one of the many guest speakers.

Think MM has come on in leaps and bounds, may he continue to progress.

Hi Arucanafeather

Re your comment:

"Those of you who’ve gone very low contact with your parents/in-laws.’: what have you done when one of them dies?
my FIL is terminally ill. Since my DH had counselling a decade ago, we’ve managed a carefully planned meet up every 2/3 months in a neutral location between our houses. Never met for key dates (birthdays/Easter/Christmas). It’s worked well enough. Certainly the best we can hope for I think. Now FIL is dying and my DH is an only child. We both want to keep to the current arrangement but it feels trickier now MIL will be on their own".

Have been in this situation re FIL, you have my sympathies. As your DH is also happy I would keep to the current arrangement for now. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Ive been on this board for a while now. Its been really helpful reading others experiences as i can relate to them so much. Its a sad shame we are here though.

I feel so sad and let down atm. It's times when I'm poorly and being a single parent you should be able to count on a support system of family. However I don't have that. My mum would rather put waiting in for a parcel and seeing her mother (who she hates) before her poorly daughter. I would do anything for my DS. If he needed me I would be there and having my DS has just amplified how low down a priority my parents put me.

I have a Dsis and she is volatile. She's NC with parents atm. I felt i could confide in her my frustrations and be moral support for each other. However, what I've just told her she's relayed back to my parents. My Dsis blows up at everyone in her life. Her parents, friends, me. Just when I think I can trust her and we can have a good sister relationship she let's me down and shows me that actually she doesn't care. It's all about herself. Doesn't think of my feelings. Even though I'm always there for her. It's just all so sad. I feel very alone.

Her partner* not her parents

@Sunnysummer10 hugs. I'm so sorry you are experiencing this. Have you got other support besides your mum and sister? It sounds like there's a ton of anger and dysfunction. You are right to feel down the agenda. It's especially hard when you know it's dysfunctional as hell, but still need help. KeeP talking here.

@AttilaTheMeerkat bless you. Are you going somewhere lovely? I think we need to rent the stately home, assess it and then buy it. We can use it as respite care. FOR US.

I'm so proud of MM. I'm so proud of myself. I've used this forum as support, a sounding board - the help has been invaluable - also as a journal.

I was reading 2020, 2021 and 2022 and I've grown so much. I cannot believe how sad, scared and cowed I was in 2020. I think I picked up her ultimate objective which was to split me and Mr Monkey up, move me out and move in. But I was in denial as how could anyone be so vile to wreck a 15 year long relationship and split a loving one. She doesn't care about anyone’s else happiness. When I had my cancer scare this summer, I was terrified of her knowing - MM under strict instructions NOT to involve her - and if I died that she would not move in. I'm fine my the way!

In the clear light of day, I can see how she was lining MM to replace Slave Son because of his growing disability. Her attitudes to Slave Son’s disabilty is massively inconsistent; she uses him like a slave, won't let him get a mobility scooter, won't let him move to a adapted house as the slum he's in now is her connection to where she used to live. And the bollocks about staying there for THREE days over Xmas last year - she's FIVE minutes drive - ignored his disabilty. But when it suits she lays it on with a trowel to lever guilt. She's fucking sick in the head.

Good counselling session this morning. Counsellor said “she's awful and a coercive narcissist. Hang on to your boundaries.” just makes me exhausted and sad. But my barriers are firm.

She's so fucking determined. Total bully. This spite is the fuel to keep her bony evil carcass alive.

Thinking about her next game, she will once again try to lever going to Slave Son’s over Xmas for three days if she doesn't get her own way. I think MM needs to say fair enough, stay there, and doesn't bring up the hazards as she will further guilt trip him over it.

Last Xmas, MM told Slave Son how horrific she was. He knows. And if she decides to go to his, he needs to stand up to her. It is his choice.

MM needs to make it clear that under no circumstances is she staying here OR going to my mum’s. Neither place are an option. Door is closed.

Aaaaaaaaaagh. THE WITCH.

sunnysummer

You are not alone, you have your son and he needs you. Is he at school?. Do keep posting here too. There are people out there who are reading and will respond.

My mum is somewhat like that too. She was of no real help whatsoever in the early days when we Meerkats became parents to DS and even now I do not think she enjoyed ever becoming a grandmother. Infact they used to pass my road regularly to arrive at my brother's empty house (he was at work) to clean it for him. I stopped asking her if she wanted to attend the Christmas carol concert at the Infants or Juniors or the school sports day when I kept getting no for an answer. My surviving inlaw is even worse so she is worth avoiding (covert narcissist).

Going forward two or so decades now, DS has nothing really to do with them and I do not have much of a relationship with them either. She has taught me an abject lesson in how not to behave.

I would keep your sister well away from you both; she has likely been volatile for many years and such people do not change. You have qualities that she lacks; empathy and insight. It's not your fault she is like this and its likely too that your parents have further created this dynamic.

Yes Monkey, you have also come a long way since then. Do cling to your boundaries tightly. Narcissists do not like boundaries and actively rail against them. Being a grey rock can also be an exhausting business.

re your comment:
"Are you going somewhere lovely?"

Am going to Florida for the festivities.

"I think we need to rent the stately home, assess it and then buy it. We can use it as respite care. FOR US".

A wonderful idea. Any ideas for other potential guest speakers and or bands to perform?.

BTW I was in Manchester for the day earlier this year (DS wanted to go see the Football museum and the IWM) and we had a grand day out.

Thank you. I do feel stronger.

Mr Monkey is going to take the Hag to some medical appointment on Friday. As he said yesterday, THAT’S when she's going to ramp up the pressure. She's gone quiet. Never a good sign as she's plotting. He needs to ring Slave Son to brief him. There is NO way she's coming. New Year is her target.

last year the sneaky bitch cancelled her carers over New Year, apparently, they didn't ‘turn up’ (to trigger our guilt), but hadn't mentioned it to Slave Son which was ‘strange’ and when MM offered to chase it up, she was really flustered and ‘no, don't complain, I could manage’. Sure sign of a lie. So, that's perfect, she managed fine last year. 🤣🤣 And can do again if they don't turn up. I'm getting the care company’s number to check up on her.

Great idea on the stately home. I think, maybe, we could get a fortified castle to keep the abusers out.

ABBA as a band?

So good that enjoyed Manchester. I'm an adopted Manc but I love it here. MM is born and bred. Those museums are fabulous.

He’s not from the nicest area (!) at all and this is the rough area Hag has always wanted to trap her children in because it's her only point of reference. But when she tricked MM out of buying a house on the other side of Manchester, he moved to a nicer area near the slum area and guess what a couple of months later Hag moved 10 minutes walk from him. Jealous of his lodgers - a lesbian couple who got lots of sly digs - and had a key and ‘cleaned’ for MM. Snooping, claiming his space and control. When I moved in, I ‘lost’ my key and had the locks changed. I knew in my guts that she was a psycho, but wasn't conscious of it fully.

Hi guys, I have been on this thread for a while on and off. I am feeling very weak and confused and could do with some guidance from those that understand.

Background:
To cut a very long story short, my mother is very much a narc and goes through life doing as she pleases and everyone else is collateral damage. She can also be very nasty and volatile and has literally never had my back. When I was 6 (young brother 3 and older brother 8) she had an affair with a man on our street. A very nasty toxic man. She used to tell me she was going to see him and that i was her confident and not to tell my (lovely) dad. I did what she said. This went on for sometime until they were found out by the man's wife. Huge drama ensued, my own dad had a nervous breakdown and moved abroad. Brothers and I moved into a new house, new area (new school) with mum and her affair partner/bf who was a nasty abusive bully to all 3 of us (psycholically and physcially), my dad was nowhere to be seen (I didnt even know which country he lived in for some of this time). My mum's bf had been forced to leave behind his own two daughters after the affair was found out and resented us being in the house instead of them... but he does have mental healt problems and is all round very controlling of my mother, spiteful, racist, has no friends because he is just a terrible human being.

My mother never ever stood up for us, she just used to lock herself in the bedroom and drink/cry when the abuse was taking place. Then she'd tell us we needed to apologise to her bf (she was being his puppet at this point). For context we were not bad kids.... possibly some normal/minor transgressions but definitely nothing more. I wont go in to details of the psychological and physical abuse, mainly because it would take too long....

As soon as we were 16 we were old told to move out - my younger brother actually moved out at 15 to live with his girlfriend.

My brothers and I have all struggled throughout our adult lives (again I wont go off on a tangent about this) but are managing to keep afloat, mainly due to our own resilience. We each have decent jobs, kids, happy marriages.

My brothers choose to maintain an arms length relationship with my mother. They feel sorry for her when she does her performative crying (when she doesnt get her own way). I am NC.... I have tried over the years to have her in my life but each and every time the relationship causes me a great deal of anguish and I end up going NC after a year or so. She is still with her husband and very much controlled by him, as well as being very selfish. She doesn't want to offer practical support, she wants to flounce in and out of my/my kids lives whenever she feels like it, normally letting us down at the last minute because her (now) husband cooks up a reason why she can't see us... or calling her home when she had just arrived (he is getting old and will conveniently develop ailments eg putting his back out just as my mum arrives and she will do as she is told and leave).... it's by no means all him though, they are both just as bad. She also makes constant digs about my parenting, remarks on my appearance, the usual stuff....

After I had my second child (now 3) my mother was very insistent about getting back into my life, sending cards, presents for the children etc etc. I think I was very vulnerable at this time and agreed to try again. Naturally after 18 months or so I was getting very distressed, my relationship with my mother (and by extension her husband, even though I haven't seen him in 10 years or so) started to affect my self esteem, so I cut her out again and felt much better. Until now.

So now we come to the present day - my two children are 3 and 4. They do remember a bit about "Granny" from when we last had contact. My mother is very good at being all smiley, Mary Poppins -like, lovely Granny when it suits her to be and was usually like this around my children. Always bringing presents and treats. My children (particularly the 4 year old) have started to ask where Granny is / why she hasn't visited us for a while. They see other children with their Granny's after school. This morning I gave them each a new winter hat (from the charity shop) and the little one asked "did my Granny knit this for me?"

They do not really have a relationship with other grandparents.... My husbands parents are both dead and my Dad, now back in this country, has started to go a bit senile. I have forgiven my Dad, he is fallable but a good person despite some mental health issues....he has apologised profusely for past events (in contrast to my mother), and we have a reasonable relationship but I would not leave my children with him (we only have short visits).

I am very sleep deprived at the moment as my 3yo isnt sleeping well.... and I have been struggling with looking after both my DC when my DH is working long hours....they are a handful! So I could be perhaps getting a bit vulnerable again. My mother has been emailing me saying how much she loves her grandchildren and would love to see them, will soon be sending piles of Xmas gifts. I feel terrible about this but I don'y give her gifts to the children, they go to charity.

The thing that is pulling on my heart strings is my own children and their apparent wish to see their grandmother. I dont talk about "Granny" but they do know they've got one and only really know her as "lovely friendly Granny". I think they would like to see her.... and sometimes I think if she did visit at least she could play with one child while I amuse the other (v difficult with both on my own). But I have a sense or forboding about letting her back in.... I can feel my anxiety increasing at the thought of it. However, this needn't affect my DC, they would only see the nice side of things if I allowed Granny to visit. I am wondering if should allow her back in with extremely strict boundaries/totally compartmentalise ("she is here to visit the children")......I feel very sorry for my little ones :-( not that they want for anything.

Has anyone been in a similar situation? Any input appreciated as always, and thank you for reading all of that. I am really confused and struggling with my emotions around this.

Hi EezyOozy

I have read all your message and it is sadly all too typical of growing up within a narcissistic and abusive family structure.

re your comment:
"The thing that is pulling on my heart strings is my own children and their apparent wish to see their grandmother. I dont talk about "Granny" but they do know they've got one and only really know her as "lovely friendly Granny". I think they would like to see her.... and sometimes I think if she did visit at least she could play with one child while I amuse the other (v difficult with both on my own). But I have a sense or forboding about letting her back in.... I can feel my anxiety increasing at the thought of it. However, this needn't affect my DC, they would only see the nice side of things if I allowed Granny to visit. I am wondering if should allow her back in with extremely strict boundaries/totally compartmentalise ("she is here to visit the children")......I feel very sorry for my little ones :-( not that they want for anything".

Like so many adult children of narcissists you have received the Special Training such people receive to put the narcissist parent first with your own needs and wants dead last. Therefore such people like you end up with a whole shitton of fear, obligation and guilt. Deal with this through therapy; find a therapist who is actually well versed in narcissistic abuse. Such people do exist but interview them carefully and at length before choosing any one particular person. I would also suggest you watch Dr Ramani on Youtube.

Narcissists also do not like boundaries and will actively rail against those. She has and continues to disregard any boundary you care to set.

Children need emotionally heathy grandparents and your parents do not fit the bill here. Use distraction techniques on your kids; if they mention granny say we are not going to see granny today but we're going to now go to the park/zoo/etc. They are far too young to decide such and it is your job as a parent to protect them from malign influences like your mother. As they get older you can give them age appropriate truth re their grandmother.

No to any visits from Granny nor you seeing her. There should be no contact whatsoever with her. Do not read her emails. Good on you for sending her presents to the kids to the charity shop; keep doing this. Do not acknowledge these items in any way. Radio silence from you must be maintained.

You absolutely need to protect both yourself and your children from this serial abuser in the shape of your mother. She was not a good parent to you when you were growing up and she has not changed a bit since. If she is too toxic/batshit etc for YOU to deal with its the SAME deal for your kids too. Your children are your most precious of resources; do not let her and her enabler of a husband anywhere near any of you. Women like your mother cannot do relationships and they always need a willing enabler to help them. That person here is your dad; a man she likely hates with a passion too. Their relationship is also very dysfunctional but both get what they want out of it.

If she came to your house she will do emotional harm to your kids right in front of your very eyes; a look, a pinch, some snarky comment directed at your kids. She could well try and play off the siblings against each other and/or primarily favour one over the other. Narcissists like making scapegoats and or golden children when it comes to their grandchildren and she will certainly use your kids as a way of getting back at you. Do not forget either that, generally speaking, older people have more disposable income and she could well try and steal both their hearts and minds by offering to pay for their tuition/college fees/driving lessons.

Do not let your heart rule your head here!!!. Heart needs to get with the programme!.

This may also be helpful to you:

"Now you're dealing with questions from your children, or you're anticipating questions. First of all, let us establish another fact. You are the parent. You get to make these decisions without apology or excessive justification. You can assure your children that you are making a wise and loving decision for them as well as yourself. I am not going to script what you should say because you are the only one who knows your children, but you must convey that this isn't up for negotiation. This is not a decision that the child gets to make.

Yes, children usually love their grandparents. Children are often quite indiscriminate in their love which is why they need parents to guide them. Not every person is safe to have around and this is a good time to teach that important life lesson. The more matter-of-fact you are, the more matter-of-fact your children will be. When we act hysterical, they will usually reflect our hysteria. If you act anxious, they will act anxious. If you appear unsure, they will push. Model the reaction and attitude you want your children to adopt".

@EezyOozy Block your mother, every way possible, phone, email, whatsapp etc.

She has shown no understanding of what she has done to you throughout your childhood and your parenting so far, therefore there is no chance of her changing. She is who she is and that's not your fault. You were treated horribly, you didn't deserve it, it wasn't your fault. She was a damaged person a long time ago and hasn't taken any steps to deal with her issues. She is toxic. You wouldn't go near an exploding nuclear plant, would you? This is what she is, she can maybe be nice for 5 minutes, but that's only to disarm you, she can't do anything different other than spread poison.

Stop the cycle here and protect your children from her. As Attila says, find a good therapist. You have been through a lot. Explain in an age appropriate way to your children that granny is not a safe person for them to be with, but keep them away from her please.

Thank you both so much for your responses and support. Honestly I can't tell you how much it means to me that you have spent time replying. It really is a continual head fuck.

I will look for a therapist (although money is an issue but I will look into it). I am feeling a little stronger having read your messages. I am doing everything I can to prevent toxicity passing down to my own children. I do need to work on explaining things to my own children in an age appropriate way. I will reply more fully when I have finished work.

@EezyOozy it is a head f* but at least you can see it’s not normal so can now take steps to protect your family unit. There really is a pattern of behaviour with these people …..we’ve witnessed performative crying 🙄

My narc MIL/SIl were interested in babies/ young children as they’re not old enough to see the dysfunction and this age think smiley granny is wonderful and it feeds their narcissistic ego. Once they get older the narc dumps them or has a favourite and a scapegoat depending on who is willing to suck up to them without questioning. Which is classic love bombing followed by discard.

My DC was 7 when he saw the batshit behaviour - so devious and underhand. My DH has alway said he wouldn’t leave DCs on their own and he was right. That was the seminal moment I changed from wanting a family relationship to drawing battle lines rather than boundaries 😬

If a friend had written your post what would you be telling them? Listen to your anxiety when she’s around - if it is a healthy relationship would you feel like this?

I’ve recently started EMDR therapy for complex PTSD from my childhood (although my in laws are why I’ve dipped a toe onto this thread). It’s on the NHS and I’m finding it amazingly helpful. If was my GP who recommended it but actually it’s a self referral process to the NHS counselling service and they then talk through with you what therapy would be helpful. It might be a useful first place for you to look.

Thanks so much for your post. It’s lovely to talk it over with people who understand the dilemma. My family are all “you can’t leave her on her own at Xmas” (because my parents made the opposite decision & invited my Dad’s mother into their home, even though my Dad couldn’t even look her in the face… the parallels between my Dad’s childhood and my husband’s are so obvious now I’m looking back with hindsight!).

I’m just so annoyed… with them and myself! I was finally enjoying the run up to Xmas and feeling the benefits of having PTSD treatment. I was having fun with my DH and our kids and now I’m all angst ridden.

@EezyOozy i 150% hear you and hugs to you for a really hard childhood.

Totally agree with all this advice and support.

You're NOT depriving your child of a granny. She might be ‘interested’ now, but in the long term she’ll blow hot and cold and, ultimately, disappoint them and damage them. All this interest is playing at granny and she's feeding off it. My MIL does this. She just chucks lots of £ at her grandsons; she never rings, prob seen them five times. She will, of course, paint herself as the injured, ignored nana.

Oh GOD the performative crying. Are the abusers all graduates of a top flight drama school? Their emotional range is quite something. Sobbing to anger to spite in minutes. Oscar winning stuff. 🤣

@Fluffygoon Its when it starts to impact your own DC that you make the change isn’t it.

We never allowed my DM host another Christmas after she got roaring drunk and started getting aggressive and teary in front of the DC and it scared them. Since then, we control the day so can get her to leave when we feel it’s about to head in the wrong direction

You're NOT depriving your child of a granny. She might be ‘interested’ now, but in the long term she’ll blow hot and cold and, ultimately, disappoint them and damage them. All this interest is playing at granny and she's feeding off it. My MIL does this. She just chucks lots of £ at her grandsons; she never rings, prob seen them five times. She will, of course, paint herself as the injured, ignored nana.

thank you, I needed to hear this. This is what I’m trying to protect them from. It’s sad when you finally come to the conclusion that your toxic/abusive/neglectful parent is never going to change. My mother has no ability to introspect , reflect on the past, and will never be a better person. I guess it’s liberating too…. Until you feel weak and confused .

Argh my 3 yo isn’t going to sleep ; I’ll have to go up! 🤯 thanks to all on here

@EezyOozy i hope you got the little one to sleep. It really is sad to realize that won't / can't change, but I think at that stage you begin to accept the status quo. The priority is YOU and your healthy relationships. It's incredibly hard. You are doing so well by getting to the stage of having everything in clarity, many people never have this as the abusers have done such a number on them. Having the scales lifted from your eyes is both frightening and liberating, I think.

I've seen my partner move through those stages with his mother. It's been like the stages of grief in some ways. He's moved away from feeling guilty about not spending time with her or serving her every need to a place where he's prioritising himself and his emotions. He still feels sad about how she's created a fucked up mess of a life for herself AND tried to do that with her children. She's succeeded with two out of the three and he, who's the youngest and endured her physical and emotional abuse, plus that abuse from his brothers, has come out the sane one. But it's not a sadness that makes him want to rescue her as it's not possible, as like your mum, his mum has no reflective capacity at all, it's everyone’s else who's the problem. It's not an overnight thing at all.

Hugs to you.

I also agree about cutting your mother out of your life @EezyOozy . My late DM was totally unable to regulate her emotions or check herself. She made no bones about which of her grandchildren she liked or disliked. Very much disliked my DC2, yet highly approved of DC1. And so the cycle continued.

One Christmas she was staying and declared that she was taking us for a pub lunch so I didn't have to cook, then in the next breath said "but not DC2 and her boyfriend". Like, what the fuck? DC2 and boyfriend were also staying over Christmas but packed their bags and left because "grandma" was actually a spiteful bitch when she wanted to be.

So don't feel bad about it. You're not denying your kids a lovely granny. You're protecting them from the inevitable.

@sicario thanks for your support. My mother and her husband did that to my husband once - paid for everybody’s meal at a restaurant except his. No reason. Her husband and been needling and picking on my husband throughout the whole meal, I think the pathetic little man felt threatened by him. My husband did a fabulous job of not biting, which caused RAGE and a vile outburst at the end, and a very nasty effort to exclude him.

My mothers husband also stormed out of my older brothers wedding once, making a massive scene, because nobody was giving him enough attention (because that day wasn’t about him)!

so many stories. I’m sure we all have so many stories….Just thinking about it all is reinforcing my wanting to stay NC.

I know it's hard and very upsetting to go NC because it completely goes against the grain of who we are (nice people who continue to hope things will get better, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary). But sometimes it's the only way.

It gets easier as the years go by, but the wounds run very deep. Otherwise we wouldn't have gone NC.

Solidarity to all.

@Sicario that's such awful behaviour. I feel so sad when I read this. Obviously, designed to make your daughter AND you feel bad.

@EezyOozy grim reading. god, why do they do this spoiling of what could be a lovely time?!?! Hag does this every xmas and was a nightmare when my nephews and their mum (SIL) came down in the summer during a meal. I did everything to sort it all out - apartment, the meals.
How hard is to just think of other people and just BEHAVE. Rhetorical question! Sounds like your mum found her prefect match.

Just got a week in head office 12 Dec - 19 Dec - not that I was begging my lovely boss or anything lol - so I miss a week of Hag xmas drama. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 RESULT. I can support Mr Monkey from afar but not listen to Hag’s BS.