How to be in charge with FIL. (Trigger warning CSA)

[Needanewname87]

So, I have a shitty situation to deal with. My FIL has a historic conviction for child sex offences. I don’t know exactly what happened. No one will tell me. I do know it was 25+ years ago, he is the victim’s uncle and was convicted and given a suspended jail term (so he didn’t actually go to jail). He’s not been caught doing anything illegal since. His family seem certain he has never repeated that behavior, and are happy to see him with the rule that he is never left unsupervised with any children. I have a newborn baby. I had naively assumed that our baby would have nothing to do with this relative because that was the obvious conclusion for me. Turns out my DH feels differently and wants our baby to have a relationship with their paternal grandfather. He thinks constant supervision is enough. I think it would be better if they never have any contact whatsoever. But the problem is I can’t insist on zero contact because if my DH wanted to divorce me over this he would be able to take our child to see FIL as often as he liked. So it’s pointless me insisting to the point where it breaks us up. Which it might. I honestly thought DH would come to the conclusion he couldn’t possibly have our child around his dad and he honestly thought I would be comfortable with them having a constantly supervised relationship. I met FIL many times before finding out about his crime. I never liked him because he’s old fashioned and makes shitty vaguely sexual comments about my appearance and women in general. In the same way many older men do. Shitty behavior. But too vague to cause an argument over. Not enough to be classed as harassment. Just bog standard shitty entitled male behavior. So I’ve got used to biting my tongue and just not laughing or smiling at him when he makes that kind of remark. Now I know he’s also (or was in the past) capable of horrible entitled sexual behavior towards children I need to be different in my interactions with him. Not polite DIL who won’t laugh at sexist jokes but who won’t rock the boat. I need to be the scary mama bear you don’t even dream of messing with. I want rules that FIL won’t like. Like no pictures with our baby ever. And no holding the baby/having toddler on his knees. Ever. Ideally no physical contact ever. I’m certainly not going to let him touch me ever again - so no hug goodbye kind of thing. No meeting in his house where I find it harder to be assertive. He’s not welcome in my house. I need non confrontational ways to hold these boundaries so that my DH will be satisfied that our baby was able to meet their (extremely flawed) paternal grandfather, but without me freaking out and screaming ´you disgusting paedo’ and ruining our marriage and losing even more control over the situation. Any suggestions?

You go offical.
Talk to your midwife.
Ask the police for a Sarah's Law disclosure www.met.police.uk/rqo/request/ri/request-information/sarahs-law-beta/sarahs-law-child-sex-offender-disclosure-scheme/
Refer yourself to social services.

You need to know exactly what you are dealing with and to take professional advice. Children can be abused in the same room as their parents - and if one of their parents doesn't think there's an issue then how can you protect your child?

How much do you know about the crime he was convicted for? might be worth doing a Claire's law search to ensure you and your DP have the facts.

I wouldn't see him at all. I don't understand why your dh wants your children to meet him. If my dh wanted our children to meet and have any contact with a pedophile I would leave him.

Sorry Sarah's law not Claire's law, different systems

Completely agree with going official route. Families tend to filter out uncomfortable information and gloss over situations rather than facing up to cold hard facts of what their family member is capable of.

As other's have said, the first thing you need to do is find out what he's been convicted of, and if there are any restrictions put-on him having contact with children.

I'd also seriously consider counselling/mediation with your DH to figure out boundaries with someone external. If it was more than 25 years ago, how old was your DH when this happened? Does he believe the victim, or does he believe his DF is innocent?

Im so sorry OP... listen to this advice given...

Do not rely on your DH being honest about this... go Official

Good luck and best of wishes .. 🌸

Also, to answer your questions: I think probably the first thing you need to do to assert your boundaries is reinforce them in your own mind. So, take advise from the NSPCC, talk to your midwife, talk to the police to get info. Your DH and his family are in a weird minimising bubble, and its hard to break away from that kind of group think. You're going to need other people with knowledge and expertise telling you what you need to do to safeguard your child to give you the confidence to act in their best interest.

I would also recommend a conversation with your DH about when he imagines you'll tell your child about this conviction. At the moment, you're focused on any risk to him having this relationship, and your DH is focused on maintaining one. You're both thinking about a baby. But. - what about a ten year old? What about a teenager? Someone who has been encouraged to have a loving relationship with a man a lot of society will believe is a monster. Have either of you thought about how that will affect his ability to trust you as his parents? Either you keep this secret from him, which would be devastating when he one day finds out, or you somehow tell him as a child completely going against all the messages he'll be getting at school and from society. I really think there's a lot of thinking and negotiating you and your DH need to be doing.

Not in the UK so Claire’s Law is not an option. I did tell my midwife about it. They organized a few sessions with a psychologist. The psychologist tried to help us find a compromise, and she was satisfied we were both taking the risk seriously enough to protect our child from any potential abuse. I understand why DH wants there to be a relationship, I just don’t agree with him. This is his father. The offenses happened when he was a child. His mother left his father over it, but social services determined he was not a risk to his own children and they still had contact. He has a lifetime of normal childhood memories with this man plus the knowledge that he cannot be trusted around children. I have a few years of normal level DIL dislike of him for behavior that bothers me but would be considered ´banter’ by many, plus the knowledge of his crime. For me the risk by far outweighs any benefits, for my DH the risk needs to be taken seriously and managed but he believes the benefits of the relationship are worth the stress of managing that risk.

Do not let this go

Find out as much as you can first before making any decisions

If your husband is willing to divorce you over this,
I would be contacting social services, to make sure the child cant be with there ‘grandad’

@crossstitchcat

I wouldn't see him at all. I don't understand why your dh wants your children to meet him. If my dh wanted our children to meet and have any contact with a pedophile I would leave him.

But the op quite rightly understands that if they split up she would be unable to stop her now exhusband from visiting FIL with their child.

I agree with Napoleon go official, there might already be rules regarding him being near children.

FWIW I think you're right that splitting over this would mean DH would have access which would involve FIL seeing the child, so you do need to tread carefully.

If you think of FIL as the spider sitting in the middle of the family spinning a web, all of them are caught up in the web to some extent. Some may be helping him spin the web, but let's assume for now DH is caught rather than actively perpetuating the situation - you have to help DH 'see' what's going on. So absolutely, the first thing you need are the facts.

Then you have to work with DH to help him unleash himself from the web. That's going to be very difficult so you're going to have to be patient and get outside help. Talk to your HV in confidence, explore counselling - you're going to have to work consistently and carefully at this. Sorry OP. It's not going to be easy. but you're doing the right thing, of course.

X-post. If you've already had counselling but he's still persisting... that's so tough OP.

If my dh tried this, I would never be able to look at him in the same light; I would lose all respect and love for him and it would be impossible to stay married. I'd simply disappear with my child.

Someone like that never changes; they just get better at not getting caught.
Are you able to find out more by looking through old newspaper archives, etc, for the year it happened?

I understand why leaving would scare you though as if you had to allow contact between dh and dc, you'd be worried about what happens between your dc and FIL during contact without you there to supervise.

I note that your MIL divorced your FIL over this. Is there any chance that someone from your MILs family could give you more detail over what happened. If your DH was a child at the time, he may have only ever heard a very sanitised version of the charges.
I'm not sure where you are but if you know roughly the date of the trial there may be something in the local newspaper a at the time, and they can often be obtained by from archives.

Btw, you can have it written into a Court Order that the child is not to be put into contact with a.n.people, (provided there's good enough reason, etc) - I succeeded with this, and the person had never even been convicted, like your FiL was! So, don't sell your legal choices short this soon.

I'm sure others will come along to also note that grandparents have no rights. Strictly speaking even parents don't, per se - it is the child's right to have a relationship with a.n. adult. But this can get muddied if the child has done any binding with that adult. So, start as you mean to go on and font let that visitation be established in the first place

If your [D]H really can't put his own child's safety above his need to toe the party line, I think that tells you what you need to know. But, then, what has he ever done to protect you from FiL's sexism and borderline harassment? I'm guessing, nothing.

What a truly horrible situation for you. You've had some v good practical advice on here. Just wanted to say that you sound like the only adult in this situation who is taking things as seriously as they deserve. Your DP and the rest of the family are minimising - as no doubt they have been well trained to do by FIL. I can understand where your DP is coming from, and you have explained it very well, but that doesn't mean that his judgement about the situation is reasonable.

Your fears about what might happen if you were to split up are well founded. There is no way that your FIL should be having any access to your child - you know that, and you're right about it. Im just horrified for you that you're in this situation

He would probably get a prison sentence for that crime these days. I have the misfortune to know someone recently convicted of a sex offence against a child - apparently it came out in court that he'd been accused of it before about 30 years previously, and got away with it.

DH definitely does not believe his father is innocent. His family know the abuse happened. The bit I find naive is them trusting he deeply regrets doing it and would not repeat it. No one trusts him enough to leave a child alone with him, even for a couple of minutes. That’s their safeguarding line. I want more protections.

Have you spoken to your MIL about this? how does she feel?

She might be an ally in getting your DH to really understand the danger given that she divorced him over it.

I don’t know that I can access more information about what happened. I’m in France, and I don’t think there is an equivalent of Claire’s Law or Sarah’s Law here. This would be on his criminal record and would shown up if he were to apply for a job requiring DBS equivalent but I don’t think the general public can access records of ordinary court cases and I’m sure I can’t access his crimminal record.

Does he realise children can be abused whilst the parents are in the room and don't realise? How does he say he can protect her? What is he going to say to her in15 years time when she realises her daddy knowingly let her spend time with a monster?

I’m furious with the whole family for assuming I would come round and be able to continue a normal relationship with FIL. I think I could supervise a visit on neutral ground if I’m not required to have any kind of conversation with him and pretend I think he’s anything but pond scum. But I need my rules on no physical contact respected.

Having to tell our baby about their grandfather’s convictions is a point I’m well aware of. DH said if we refuse all contact then our child may be upset they did not meet their grandfather. I pointed out that when they find out what he did they may be upset that we did allow them to meet.

Why won't they tell you what happened?