How to be in charge with FIL. (Trigger warning CSA)

[Needanewname87]

So, I have a shitty situation to deal with. My FIL has a historic conviction for child sex offences. I don’t know exactly what happened. No one will tell me. I do know it was 25+ years ago, he is the victim’s uncle and was convicted and given a suspended jail term (so he didn’t actually go to jail). He’s not been caught doing anything illegal since. His family seem certain he has never repeated that behavior, and are happy to see him with the rule that he is never left unsupervised with any children. I have a newborn baby. I had naively assumed that our baby would have nothing to do with this relative because that was the obvious conclusion for me. Turns out my DH feels differently and wants our baby to have a relationship with their paternal grandfather. He thinks constant supervision is enough. I think it would be better if they never have any contact whatsoever. But the problem is I can’t insist on zero contact because if my DH wanted to divorce me over this he would be able to take our child to see FIL as often as he liked. So it’s pointless me insisting to the point where it breaks us up. Which it might. I honestly thought DH would come to the conclusion he couldn’t possibly have our child around his dad and he honestly thought I would be comfortable with them having a constantly supervised relationship. I met FIL many times before finding out about his crime. I never liked him because he’s old fashioned and makes shitty vaguely sexual comments about my appearance and women in general. In the same way many older men do. Shitty behavior. But too vague to cause an argument over. Not enough to be classed as harassment. Just bog standard shitty entitled male behavior. So I’ve got used to biting my tongue and just not laughing or smiling at him when he makes that kind of remark. Now I know he’s also (or was in the past) capable of horrible entitled sexual behavior towards children I need to be different in my interactions with him. Not polite DIL who won’t laugh at sexist jokes but who won’t rock the boat. I need to be the scary mama bear you don’t even dream of messing with. I want rules that FIL won’t like. Like no pictures with our baby ever. And no holding the baby/having toddler on his knees. Ever. Ideally no physical contact ever. I’m certainly not going to let him touch me ever again - so no hug goodbye kind of thing. No meeting in his house where I find it harder to be assertive. He’s not welcome in my house. I need non confrontational ways to hold these boundaries so that my DH will be satisfied that our baby was able to meet their (extremely flawed) paternal grandfather, but without me freaking out and screaming ´you disgusting paedo’ and ruining our marriage and losing even more control over the situation. Any suggestions?

Can I clarify, did your DH agree that there would be no contact with his Dad before you got pregnant? Or did you presume he was on the same page as you? As I'm unclear whether your husband has changed the agreements

I know you have left but perhaps you might see this @Needanewname87..

There is an abuser in my family and he had a way of being that made children feel uncomfortable. I don't remember any of it, but my sister does. We should not have to grow up, looking towards our parents who we trust and see them interacting normally with someone that makes us feel uncomfortable in a way that we have no means to understand. Our parents are there to teach us how to understand our instincts and how to interpret behaviours. Do not keep his secret. Answer the question... how could you let me have a relationship with a person who was capable of sexually abusing a child? You said earlier.. You want to be able to look her in the eye and say you did everything to protect her... I think you know what to do.

We should not have to grow up, looking towards our parents who we trust and see them interacting normally with someone that makes us feel uncomfortable in a way that we have no means to understand. Our parents are there to teach us how to understand our instincts and how to interpret behaviours.

Yeah, "that's a nice dress" from a fil should be a nice compliment (I couldnt imagine many fils saying that in my region, but they might say "you look really well" or something like that.

The very fact that the manner in which ops fil saud it makes him uncomfortable and makes her h uncomfortable enough to chide him; says it all.

But op is determined to minimise this fucked up situation.

*makes her uncomfortable.

And quite honestly, it's hard to i.agone how you could be comfortable around someone who sexually abused their nephew (and rightly lost theur marriage as a result etc) no matter what they said.

@Needanewname87

Two things jump to mind reading your post:

1. You can't be expected to agree if the safeguarding measures proposed are acceptable if you don't know what he did / how he did it. You should have those details before you can decide.
2. Your DH is confident that your child will be protected from your FIL if he is never left with them alone. However, your DH has never managed to protect you from your FIL unacceptable behaviour, so why does he think he can protect your child?

Op has flounced by the looks of it, so I'll just answer the thread title in the hopes she looks here again;

"How to be in charge with fil?"

You can't be in charge with a predator.

He pushes boundaries even with adults, in response you get uncomfortable, your h chided him gently, but you continue meeting meeting and now you're going to have him around your baby/child.

You're fooing yourself.

What is it about an individual who both had the urge to, and gave himself permission sexually abuse a child, his brother or sister's child at that .... that makes you think he's an appropriate person to have a relationship with in any way.

He's not wired right. That hasn't changed. It can't.

Unless it's a different poster with v similar circumstances, I remember your first thread on this; you knew about it before pregnancy and, I believe, before marriage.

You should have left and sought a partner elsewhere, you need counselling as well as you h to figure out why you didn't and how to help yourself going forward.

I would like to do that via no contact. This is a reasonable viewpoint. My DH would like to do that via strictly supervised contact perhaps once every six months. Although I don’t agree with him because of the difficulty of effectively supervising this contact, legally this is also considered a reasonable viewpoint. The outcome for us is likely to be much stricter more time limited contact in a tightly controlled environment.

Your h should not be putting you in this position.

He needs to gave counselling and he needs to talk to his cousin (if they're willing) and he needs to see the court documents, transcripts etc.

OP, why are you trying to accommodate your DH on behalf of your FIL? Just because your DH is sure nothing will happen to your little one as you'll be taking safety precautions, he isn't able to guarantee it.

This honestly wouldn't even be a discussion in my household. As a parent you constantly worry about who you can trust as you never want to put your child in situations that leave them vulnerable to people who may have ill intentions. Yet your DH is willing to have your child around someone who is criminally known as an abuser....?

It's one thing for your DH to have a relationship with his dad as he's a grown man and can do whatever he likes. However you should seriously be putting your foot down with this one saying your child isn't to be around FIL at any costs.
Why can't you do that instead of trying to find ways you'll be comfortable of having your child around this man?

I’m not sure why people keep asking why the OP is trying to facilitate things because I think it’s pretty clear
SHE HAS NO OTHER CHOICE OTGER THAN FACILITATING THE CONTACT

Sorry fir shouting but she has been very clear that as it stands, SS in France would have no issue with FIL seeing their dd.
If she splits over seeing FIL, her dh will be able to go and see him in his own with less precautions in place. How is that better???
So the next est scenario is to manage it as much as possible her way.

SHE HAS NO OTHER CHOICE OTGER THAN FACILITATING THE CONTACT

Because her husband is giving her no other choice.

That is a thread in itself.

In the subject of her h; I've lost count of how many times I've asked if her h hss gained & understood full details of his cousins abuse from eg his cousin, his cousins immediately family, his Mum if she is alive and well, possibly official sources etc. before he continues forcing op to compromise on contact.

It's not been answered, op prefers hyperbole and sarcasm instead.

@Energy4You she hasn’t responded to people suggesting strategies such as threatening to out the FiL and all the family for covering it, if they ever let the child near him? There are a number of courses of action she could take, some legal and others less so. Most mothers would take any of those actions before they were complicit in taking their child to meet a paedophile And she has also totally minimised the concerningly (understatement) sympathetic attitude of her husband towards a known paedophile. She hasn’t given any indication that she is sickened by her husband or considers their marriage dead. Or otherwise expressed any of the emotions that most people would have.

She says she has no choice. Even if that were the case which I don’t believe it is, she has totally avoided any of the points about her husband. Either she’s signing herself up to 18 years of faking a happy marriage in order to stay close to the problem, before she divorces him in disgust, or she’s going to sweep her husband’s attitudes under the carpet stay in a genuine sexual relationship with someone who doesn’t have it in him to cut off a paedophile from his child. I very much fear it’s the latter.

She has answered right at the start saying that asking her dh to cut out his dad was likely to lead to them getting divorced.
He is very clearly not wanting to do that and has been backed up by SS re the current handling (aka contact with measures they’ve already put in place)

What do think threatening to tell everyone about his past would achieve bar alienating her from the family and her dh when they’ve the approval of SS??
It’s not as if no one knew and it has been kept a secret. And the family can easily says ‘what’s the issue? SS are happy. OP is just over the top and trying to create an issue when there isn’t any’
It’s not the U.K. and the OP has to work with that.

That’s why using avenues such as counselling is much more likely to be effective too

@Energy4You the OP said upthread that he hadn’t been outed yet and that he was scared of the inevitable lynching, or something like that. That’s leverage, which she hasn’t shown any indication of attempting to use. I also maintain that anyone who knew their husband would divorce them if they tried to block access to their child by a paedophile, would usually fall out of love pretty damn fast but again, zero sign of that from OP. You’re just another voice in the chorus of people minimising the abhorrent.

Actually I take back the last sentence - I read what you had written as you saying the OP was making an issue where there was one, which I realise isn’t what you meant.

She says she has no choice.

The OP has and certainly has had tonnes of choices in this:

1. she could separate and go to court
2. she could insist on not going by just not going
3. she could stand up to her husband and put a strong boundary in
4. she could seek a court order

She could try this things before wringing her hands and saying well I am certain of the outcomes for all other options so I’ll just go with what my DH wants and I’ll just bring the baby to meet FIL.

And as others have saud she could use the leverage of her his family not wanting this "advertised".

But I suppose op thinks her h might leave if she threatens to do that or actually does it; and she's in the position of trying to go to court over a man who was judged ok to have contact with his own children (though that was a relatively long time ago).

I could be wrong bit there was a thread with these circumstances a while back and if it's the same op, it was before any pregnancy/baby but they were perhaps already married (I'm not syre about that).

While op says the family is keen not to gave this known, I think it highly unlikely people in the parents generation dont know about it from local press, gossip etc.
And one would imagine they'd pass that on to their (now adult) children.

I said in that thread that I didn't think it was entirely coincidental that ops h had ended up partnered wity a woman from.outside his country, let alone area; noone who had a smidgeon of an idea about this would have been enthusiastic about him as a partner (or as their child's partner).

Op was no doubt jnvested before it was disclosed (not that it's really been disclosed properly), and her h must be delighted that she's so "grey," in her response.

If it is the same op, she was advised to get put then, before any children, by many posters.

*out

I’d like to be clear here……there is literally NO WAY I would ever let a CONVICTED PAEDOPHILE ever have contact of any kind with a child of mine, or ANY child. No phone calls, no letters, absolutely NOTHING. He might have served his time/be repentant blah blah blah, but it is utterly impossible to change someone’s sexual orientation. If your husband is threatening you with divorce, as an excuse to facilitate contact between your child and a known sex offender, I suggest you fuck him off IMMEDIATELY. It might be his father but the fact is, he IS a risk to your child.

or a little friend being abused on a imaginary playdate by a person who is not welcome in our home ever - you are doing yourself a disservice by overestimating the risks posed by a known historic abuser described on an anonymous internet forum

I think you’ve deliberately misunderstood what I said.

I’ll say it again. If our little dds were friends and I found out you took your dd to see a convicted pedo the girls friendship would end ABRUPTLY. My dd would not be coming to your house for play dates or parties. I would not risk my dd being around either one of you and in particular your weird husband.

I do not spend time with pedo sympathisers and unfortunately for you you’ll find that’s how the majority of folk feel.

In fact, to cut the shit, I’d report the pair of you and you could explain your logic to ss. They’re familiar with families centering pedos which is what you’re doing.

social services determined he was not a risk to his own children and they still had contact

Can I ask who told you this OP? Was it an independent party that confirmed this or a family member, as if it was a family member I don't know if I would believe it as their current behaviour shows that they are willing to sweep all this under the rug and minimise the offence. This combined with he fact that nobody in the family will even tell you anything about the conviction makes me very worried for the safety of your child.

I feel for you OP, this is an awful situation. I find the best way to set the tone for something is to be as stern, and direct as possible.
Sit your husband down and literally use the harshest words to describe how you feel about FIL you might have to spell it out for him eg, "Your dad literally wants to engage in sexual relations with children, is that something that you approve of?" The fact that your partner doesn't want any "public shouting matches" works to your advantage, if you can get FIL alone for just a couple of minutes and say something along the lines of "if you ever even think about breaking the rules I've set out for DGD I will make sure every person thats ever known you knows what you did and where you live, i will ruin your life to no end" and then walk out I'd say you've proven your point!

social services determined he was not a risk to his own children and they still had contact

I think it’s unlikely a child protection social worker would decide that a registered sex offender would not be a risk to their own children.

The fact the op believes it to be true simply because somebody so shows incredible naivety.

There is of course the option for op to contact social services and discuss the matter properly. I suspect she knows perfectly well what would happen if she was to do that.

I find the OP's last post quite disturbing. You waffle a lot and there are lots and lots of words and long winded sentences about protecting your child but when you cut through all the crap that you are saying, it read like.

-You are putting your man first, no matter what.

-This kind of thing happens all the time, loads of people are dealing with it , sure its just everyday stuff.

-I'm not answering about when I knew for confidentiality reasons i.e. I knew before I got pregnant but my man comes first.

-Some of you are so over the top and dramatic with your FBI talk. There is no need for such hysterics.

-I'm going to do nothing but I have convinced myself with my long winded declarations that I have and will "move the earth for my child".

Your DH picked right, that's for sure.