How to be in charge with FIL. (Trigger warning CSA)

[Needanewname87]

So, I have a shitty situation to deal with. My FIL has a historic conviction for child sex offences. I don’t know exactly what happened. No one will tell me. I do know it was 25+ years ago, he is the victim’s uncle and was convicted and given a suspended jail term (so he didn’t actually go to jail). He’s not been caught doing anything illegal since. His family seem certain he has never repeated that behavior, and are happy to see him with the rule that he is never left unsupervised with any children. I have a newborn baby. I had naively assumed that our baby would have nothing to do with this relative because that was the obvious conclusion for me. Turns out my DH feels differently and wants our baby to have a relationship with their paternal grandfather. He thinks constant supervision is enough. I think it would be better if they never have any contact whatsoever. But the problem is I can’t insist on zero contact because if my DH wanted to divorce me over this he would be able to take our child to see FIL as often as he liked. So it’s pointless me insisting to the point where it breaks us up. Which it might. I honestly thought DH would come to the conclusion he couldn’t possibly have our child around his dad and he honestly thought I would be comfortable with them having a constantly supervised relationship. I met FIL many times before finding out about his crime. I never liked him because he’s old fashioned and makes shitty vaguely sexual comments about my appearance and women in general. In the same way many older men do. Shitty behavior. But too vague to cause an argument over. Not enough to be classed as harassment. Just bog standard shitty entitled male behavior. So I’ve got used to biting my tongue and just not laughing or smiling at him when he makes that kind of remark. Now I know he’s also (or was in the past) capable of horrible entitled sexual behavior towards children I need to be different in my interactions with him. Not polite DIL who won’t laugh at sexist jokes but who won’t rock the boat. I need to be the scary mama bear you don’t even dream of messing with. I want rules that FIL won’t like. Like no pictures with our baby ever. And no holding the baby/having toddler on his knees. Ever. Ideally no physical contact ever. I’m certainly not going to let him touch me ever again - so no hug goodbye kind of thing. No meeting in his house where I find it harder to be assertive. He’s not welcome in my house. I need non confrontational ways to hold these boundaries so that my DH will be satisfied that our baby was able to meet their (extremely flawed) paternal grandfather, but without me freaking out and screaming ´you disgusting paedo’ and ruining our marriage and losing even more control over the situation. Any suggestions?

Recently I’ve had cause to visit the Stop It Now website regarding concerns about someone’s behaviour around children.

They have a forum for families affected by this. It’s quite a disturbing read. Many families support and enable these abusers. Pedophiles groom families and communities before they groom children and unfortunately the average person isn’t really educated about what this looks like.

I would divorce someone who proposed these visits. And I’d let everyone know why. I could not be married to a peado supporter and I expect you will in time have SS involvement involving your poor judgment.

If you haven’t had this child yet I too would leave your DH and move home. You can’t take a child between countries but you absolutely can take a pregnancy. It is very possible that a British court would ban your husband from taking his child to see a convicted paedophile. It is absolutely worth trying ahead of all this enabling you are currently planning. Putting your husbands wants above protecting your child. Your husband is putting his fathers needs above the child’s but you are putting your husbands and hand wringing that you don’t have other options but you absolutely do. LTB.

DH said if we refuse all contact then our child may be upset they did not meet their grandfather

At what age?

Children, obviously, are not able to judge this.

So ot would have to be as a young adult that you explained why you chose not to have any contact with their paternal grandfather.

I think think it's fair to say that most people, when told the paternal grandfather had sexually abused his nephew, was convicted of it (not an easy thing to achieve) and continued to be inappropriate and suggestive towards eg yourself...... would understand and be grateful that you didn't facilitate a relationship with him.

There might be a bit of naivety when they're young, but that would disappear when they got older, and be totally gone if and when they had their own children.

Your dh is not thinking any straighter or more responsibly about this than he has about having a relationship with his father in the first place.

It also sounds like bullshit- is it truly about thinking the child would miss out, or resent you two for missing out .... or is it about not offending the father?

He sounds under his thumb.

Suggestive comment to his wife; "Papa!".

Your fil knows he's a pushover not a good position to be in with a sexual predator.

His family seem certain he has never repeated that behavior, and are happy to see him with the rule that he is never left unsupervised with any children......

... I have a newborn baby. I had naively assumed that our baby would have nothing to do with this relative because that was the obvious conclusion for me. Turns out my DH feels differently and wants our baby to have a relationship with their paternal grandfather

Given the first fact, why did you assume that? Why would your child be any different from the other children in the family?

I don't understand your assumption, but even more so, I don't understand why this wasn't discussed and decided before you got pregnant; or at the very least before you baby was born???!!!

How come you and your h didn't have thorough discussion about this?
This is horse and stable door stuff now , except that little phrase is very twee when it comes to child sex abuse.

This is an incredibly frustrating thread.

You've married a man who has a relationship with his convicted child sex abusers father, and moved to the same country (a few hours away but still). You decided to make your life with him; with children very likely; you know the rest of the family (except the nuclear family of the abuse victim) let's face father have "supervuded" contact with children .... yet you apparently didn't have a comprehensive, in depth discussion with this man about what contact your kids would have with him or not.

You assumed there'd be none; on no real basis (because your h has a relationship with his father, and happily sees kids around him) and where was the clarification/discussion with your h before getting pregnant?

It's bizarre.

Your h is brain washed, delusional, unassertive, and irresponsible; and you apparently ahead and brought a child into the world with him without clarifying this crucial matter of contact before or during pregnancy; it's head banging frustrating to read about..

You're stuck with this man now for 18 plus yrs (unless you bring more children into this situation) unless you can get some way of legally atooimg contact with his Dad (and hoe would you even enforce that if youre separated and he takes the child to France or has his father to visit).

*legally stopping contact

DH said if we refuse all contact then our child may be upset they did not meet their grandfather

As an aside on this - people don't tend don't tend miss what they never had ... does your child have grand parents on your side?

*You assumed there'd be none; on no real basis (because your h has a relationship with his father, and happily sees kids around him) and where was the clarification/discussion with your h before getting pregnant?

Could I just clarify that I actually believe the above isn't strictly true; I have a feeling your h let you believe that or implied that; until your baby was born.

He is likely deceiving and manipulating you too.

If you haven’t had this child yet I too would leave your DH and move home.

Op said she has a new born, it's in her op.

DH needs to wake up and face the facts & the huge impact of what FIL has done. Either via the court info / talking to MIL, etc.

YOU are scrambling to appease the abuser’s feelings & his supporters’ (DH’s) feelings... Instead of DH appreciating the devastations CSA brings… that is messed up! Meantime the toll on your mental health could be enormous.

Put off any visit until this is done. Also get DH to go to a counsellor - the fallout will be devastating - but better that than your child is put at risk.

Worst case scenario FIL hurts your child. Do you think he will be happy to have been put at such great risk by those who are supposed to love him so much? Mum and Dad? NOPE. He’ll be cutting you off instead.

I’ve witnessed the impact of CSA and I can honestly say it’s the cruellest and most far reaching thing I’ve ever ever seen.

I don’t know exactly what happened. No one will tell me.

This says it all really.

When did you find out about the CSA? If 8t was before you got pregnant, I don't understand your decisions.

Noone presumably includes your h; why continue a relationship with and, even worse, have a child with someone who will not disclose or acknowledge the facts in the child sex abuse case his father was the perpetrator in?

If he doesn't know; why not? Wilful ignorance. What could be more important than knowing, even before planning children.. let alone when you're having them.

His poor cousin.

Nope. No chance in hell would my child be anywhere near a child sexual abuser.

I think I've read the whole thread and not seen this suggested. Why not visit him with your husband and literally interview him about the crime he committed. Ask in great detail from start to finish. Get it from the horses mouth. Make your husband sit through it. Then find out the truth, maybe from your MIL or court reports. Any discrepancy will show he's still lying or diminishing the crime.
His son is an adult now with adult decisions to make. Decisions about his own family. Maybe when it comes out of his father's mouth in front of him, even the refusing to answer or the obfuscation, he will realise that his own son is not safe.
I am a great believer in confronting the actual perpetrator in a calm and measured way.
You are a very polite well brought up person. The leering and testing comments would have had sharp answers from a lot of women I know. Not cold English bitch, more channel your inner Glaswegian.
Channel your Cath from Happy Valley if you watch that programme.

Are you not aware or concerned OP that your child is also at risk with your husband? A paedophile apologist who is is pushing to ensure contact between his baby and a convicted abuser, is not someone who can be trusted alone with a baby/child himself. At worst he has no ability to make responsible judgements in the baby’s best interests and at worst, the apple hadn’t fallen far from the tree and there are more sinister motives for his insistence to carry on a relationship with his sick father. I understand you have a lot to process and you want to think the best of your husband but what I and I think others on this thread are struggling with is your seemingly passive reaction to your husband. Even if you manage to keep your child safe from your FiL it will be DESPITE your husband. Stop and think about that for a minute. It’s absolutely baffling how you aren’t just sickened by him, totally unable to contemplate continuing your lives together. That would be a normal reaction here.

I had assumed that you only found out about any of this after your baby was here but if PPs are right and you knowingly had a baby with a paedophile sympathiser….well I have no words.

And @Graphista yes I do have a very black and white approach to CSA. Don’t most people? There are some issues which have no grey areas and this is one of them. You simply do not mess about when it comes to protecting your child from an abuser.

Why continue a relationship with and, even worse, have a child with someone who will not disclose or acknowledge the facts in the child sex abuse case his father was the perpetrator in?

If he doesn't know; why not? Wilful ignorance. What could be more important than knowing, even before planning children.. let alone when you're having them

Very well put
It's noticeable that OP hasn't replied to the many questions about when she found out, but even if she was prepared to bring a child into a family like this you'd hope the DH might be more cautious

Except it seems that "not upsetting the paedophile" is more important

His mother left his father over it, but social services determined he was not a risk to his own children and they still had contact

This is actually horrifying.

I feel.so sorry for your mil.
She did the right thing, and SS still prevented her from protecting her own children.

How can someone sexually abuse their nephew but somehow not be a risk to their own children? To any children?

It's u likely to have been his only behaviour.... it never is with sex abusers; just the just the he was caught and prosecuted for.

And he probably didn't abuse his own kids (after the conviction) because he knew he'd get jail time, having got away very lightly the first time. Jails aren't relaxing places for child sex abusers.

Or he has some weird rules about his own kids being being off limits, who knows how the mind of a sociopath/psychopath works.

I had naively assumed that our baby would have nothing to do with this relative because that was the obvious conclusion for me. Turns out my DH feels differently and wants our baby to have a relationship with their paternal grandfather.

This means op knew, absolute minimum, during pregnancy, but it sounds like it was known before the pregnancy.

You're right, SleepingBunnies - I hadn't picked up on the significanace of that bit

Oh dear

Thank you very much to those of you who have made helpful suggestions and pointed out potential dangers in various different contact situations (eg. family parties). I will be organizing some sessions with a psychologist both as a method of documenting my concerns and to impose rules on contact that will effectively reduce the risk to a level I am more comfortable with.
It is very easy to imagine how you would behave in a hypothetical situation and criticize others real time reactions. It’s not the same as actually living it.
When our child is older and it’s time to tell them that their grandfather cannot be trusted and why. I need to be able to look my child in the eye and tell them I did everything (and will continue to do everything) in my power to keep them safe and well in a complex situation. We would both be devastated if we fail as parents to keep out child safe from abuse from FIL or any other source. Reading all the totally black and white comments here is upsetting. I would love to have the luxury to be able to reason like that. I am instead having to learn to control my anger about being put in this position in order to achieve the safest outcome for my child. Those of you extrapolating wildly and imagining ridiculous situations - FIL kidnapping our child from nursery or a little friend being abused on a imaginary playdate by a person who is not welcome in our home ever - you are doing yourself a disservice by overestimating the risks posed by a known historic abuser described on an anonymous internet forum and unfortunately probably underestimating the risks posed by people already present in your children’s lives. This is not some outlandish and horrific situation that requires the FBI, the full avengers team and a world renowned international human rights lawyer to solve so the world will be perfectly alright again. It’s a depressingly ordinary and common horrific situation that needs managing in a way that is proportionate to the actual risk. I would like to do that via no contact. This is a reasonable viewpoint. My DH would like to do that via strictly supervised contact perhaps once every six months. Although I don’t agree with him because of the difficulty of effectively supervising this contact, legally this is also considered a reasonable viewpoint. The outcome for us is likely to be much stricter more time limited contact in a tightly controlled environment.
I am leaving the thread now. Bear in mind I have changed a significant number of details in the OP to help avoid the possibility of being outed. As this whole shitty situation is pretty common, the details that are given are likely applicable to a large number of people.

My mother played the same game of "manage the paedophile" when I was growing up. He lived in a different country but would return home for summer, so knowing what he was like she still allowed him supervised contact with me, I don't know why. She too believed he would never be alone with me, but with time her supervision slacked and she slowly trusted him as he didn't try anything obvious in her line of sight. The abuse started when I was four and continued for about two years before he was caught, again. I am now 41 and on a waiting list for treatment for PTSD, after years of counseling my mental health is shattered and my trust in people is wrecked. I wake every day knowing adults that were capable of protecting me chose not to. I am often suicidal, I feel worthless, what does it say about me that she knew what he could do, had done before, and she put "being nice" and friendly family relationships before my safety. At some point I will decide if I want to report the abuse to authorities and risk losing my family. Wise up OP, you are playing a dangerous game. Your dismissive replies to posts you don't like show you really haven't a clue how serious this is.

OP you misunderstood. The PP wasn’t suggesting the FiL would abuse a friend of your child at your house on play dates. They were saying that if another set of parents found out that you facilitate contact between your child and a known paedophile, they would run a mile from you as a family because no parent would allow their child to be in your care eg on play dates when you clearly have no appropriate judgement on matters like this.

Your last post is utterly sickening. I’m reporting the thread in the vain hope that they trace the IP addresses of posters like this in order to protect the children involved.

I'm actually disgusted by the last post from the OP.

She just
Wants to micro manage a pedophile
At her own child's expense.

Your child
Will either very
Much dislike you when They find out you facilitated this contact.

Or have
Such a laid back attitude towards pedophilia as your husband
Has:

What if something
Happened to your child and DH covers it as he wanted said contact to happen.

You think dh won't one day go to the bathroom for just a second after years of being made to feel comfortable by his father

Yes we probably encounter pedophiles everyday but we would never knowingly let our child near one like you will.
Well the majority of us anyway

A mother is meant to protect no matter
What and your armed with facts and still not protecting

Everyone that gave you advice here and you post that last

God I hope It turns out ok

Because I hate my
Parents for leaving me with my grandparents and they never
Had a clue

What will your child feel about you

This may be extreme response but you seem to think it's a very
Much everyday issue ugh

This is not some outlandish and horrific situation that requires the FBI, the full avengers team and a world renowned international human rights lawyer to solve so the world will be perfectly alright again.

Wow.

Having motored on through the massive red flags about your husband and his family, married him and now brought a child into the world with him (and having acknowledged that if you were to separate, the situation for your child would be higher risk than it already is) the one thing I've suggested you do is get your husband to speak to his cousin, and find out the details of the case from official.sources, if at all possible. Even if he still insists on having a relationship with his father and on having your children around him, you should have the influence on your relationship to insist that the latter (if not the former) do not happen. If you do not, you have a husband problem.

(But then that's obvious from.the circumstances anyway).

*does not happen.

It also sounds like you could not trust meaning the baby alone with the rest of DHs family? As they could not be trusted to safeguard the baby and keep the father away.