My partner is putting off trying for a baby

[Birdland86]

Hello, first ever post, I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice?

I've been with my partner 4 year and we both are in agreement that we want to have children. I'm 34 and he's 38. We are not in a great financial situation, we are both artists and have freelance type jobs to make money. I don't think we will ever have loads of money but we are resourceful and loving and we think we can make having children work.

The issue is that I feel like he just keep putting it off, it's never the right time to start trying. The conversations about having children are starting to make me more upset and the last discussion ended in an argument. He said that I'm pressuring him and these conversations are making him want to have children less.

I've tried telling him that I feel the longer you leave it the harder it might be to conceive and there are higher risks of complications. Plus it can take time to conceive anyway. Another issue is that he never wants to have sex, it might be once a month if I'm lucky. Another factor that might make conceiving slow or difficult.

I'm starting to feel like a crazy woman and a bit unsure of what to do!

@feellikeanalien

Yes OP DP was from the UK. It was actually Portugal we were living in so I do get how hard it will be for him to leave. DP had lived there for 20 years so was almost more Portuguese than English in some ways.

And he definitely did blame me for "making him" come back to the UK even though it was much better for DD.

You must totally get why it's hard to leave. I do really love it here, the lifestyle and the culture in many ways suits me, obviously the sunshine and the beaches are great. I just can't see a future and I miss my friends and family.

I'm sorry to hear DP has put blame on you for "making him" go back. It's so difficult as if you want to be physically together you can only be in one place!

@StillCounting123

I echo what has been said countless times on this thread.

OP, get googling facts and stats about fertility rates, successful pregnancy and learn about your ovulation cycle.

If he's bumbling along saying rot like "oh, my friend had a baby at 38" then maybe show him some of the facts and figures.

Yes, we all might know a woman who has had a successful pregnancy at 40, but the chances of that being her first pregnancy is tiny.

He can say all he likes, but he needs to act. You dragging it out of him is not going to do anything positive long-term.

I feel for you!!

I did start googling after our initial argument last week and that's when it really stated hitting home. I think I will show him some facts and figures so that he can really understand. He doesn't actually know anything about this!

I'd rather avoid a difficult conception situation if it can be avoided. Thanks @StillCounting123

In the kindest possible way, there's no point in talking to him about fertility statistics - he is no doubt already aware of these.

I think you have to reflect on your own behaviour here - why are you trying to persuade a man who doesn't want to have a baby want one?!

Honestly, it's time to step back & look at things rationally instead of emotionally.

@User74575762 @trixiebelden77 @Hardbackwriter

"people talk very little about the massive drop in rates of successful pregnancy"
"the chance of a child being born with life-altering difficulties goes up a lot in the late 30s/early 40s."
"You are more likely to have a miscarriage or a child with a congenital issue because of the poor quality of your ageing partner’s sperm."

These are all really good points, it's something I hear more the later I get into my 30s. I honestly didn't hear much about this before that. I think young women are told "don't get pregnant" between that ages of about 16-27. Then you hit about 30 and you hear all this info about miscarriages, higher risk of birth defects etc. Reading all your posts it's really starting to hit home how real this is. I'm going to do some more reading and have more actual facts and statistics to share with my DP.

@Carouselfish

I'm just going to give a slightly different response op. Putting aside other issues, I don't think you have to become a conformist, medium-waged 9-5er to have children. I think you can be a bohemian, unconventional parent without a vast amount of money. People buy a lot of things for their children they don't need and a creative albeit less financially sound life in Portugal doesn't sound incompatible with children. I know I'll get flamed for this but some men don't grow up UNTIL they have children. Can't you consider having them there? If it doesn't work out, then you could make the move back to the UK.

Yes I've thought the same for a while now, I've seen friends bring up wonderful children in a more bohemian way. I think we would need a bit more money than we have, but I think we could do it here for sure and go back to the UK if we wanted/needed. It's only recently I've starting having doubts about how successful it might be having kids here. My mum has stressed the importance of support network of friends and family.

I wouldn't bother with all the stats, etc. Your DP is clearly telling you he doesn't want a child with you, and you are not listening. Believe me, a reluctant parent is not a great parent for a child.

You want children, so whether you manage to get him to agree or not, your relationship is doomed anyway.

"I think he should be more worried about himself if his sex drive is almost non existent"
"If he does not want to have sex with you and is 38 now think how bad will your sex life be in a couple of years."
I spoke to him about this and finally got him to open up a bit more about it. He said it's been an issue for a long time and he has some anxieties about sex, the severity fluctuates. He said he's never even googled it!! So I've explained to him that this is also something we would need to work on. I've suggested some ways to try and improve things.
I really wouldn't want this to be something that doesn't change.

@TurquoiseDragon

I wouldn't bother with all the stats, etc. Your DP is clearly telling you he doesn't want a child with you, and you are not listening. Believe me, a reluctant parent is not a great parent for a child.

You want children, so whether you manage to get him to agree or not, your relationship is doomed anyway.

"I wouldn't bother with all the stats, etc. Your DP is clearly telling you he doesn't want a child with you, and you are not listening. Believe me, a reluctant parent is not a great parent for a child."

"I think you have to reflect on your own behaviour here - why are you trying to persuade a man who doesn't want to have a baby want one?!" @LargeProsecco

I really don't want a reluctant parent. I've been reflecting on my part in this, it's difficult because he tells me he wants it, and I want to believe him. It also makes it difficult to argue with. But I really don't want to persuade him to have a baby if he doesn't REALLY want it deep down.

@DeciduousPerennial

If he was serious about any of this - knowing how much this means to you - then there would be a conversation about “how do we make this happen? What do we need to do?” There hasn’t been.

He doesn’t really want children with you, because your conditions for having children mean he has to leave behind the life he loves AND HE’S ALREADY TOLD YOU THAT. Listen to him. He’s told you that he doesn’t want to leave Portugal. If by some miracle you manage to get him to do it in enough time that your fertility isn’t compromised, he will resent you for it and throw it back in your face every time you have an argument. He will possibly end up resenting the child too.

You want different things.

There’s nothing wrong with that. But stop trying to make this something it isn’t, and don’t bring a baby into something which is doomed to fail.

"He doesn’t really want children with you, because your conditions for having children mean he has to leave behind the life he loves AND HE’S ALREADY TOLD YOU THAT. Listen to him. He’s told you that he doesn’t want to leave Portugal. If by some miracle you manage to get him to do it in enough time that your fertility isn’t compromised, he will resent you for it and throw it back in your face every time you have an argument. He will possibly end up resenting the child too." - You've totally got it here, I think I've know this deep down and why I've been struggling so much internally.

There's nothing wrong with wanting different things totally. I think i need to get him to understand that this is true because he's insisting it's not the case.

What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?

Being a rescuer and or saviour in a relationship never works out and here you are trying to be his therapist to boot. Why did you take it upon yourself to suggest some ways to try and improve things?. That was his sole job here, never yours.

He is still very much staging you along and you do not want to accept the truth. Why on earth would you want to bring a child into this anyway with him as a father and you potentially remaining unmarried too?.

He is quite happy to stay in Portugal for the rest of his days. Where would a child fit into that existence he currently has, a child would not. He does not want children and equally he does not want children or even more commitment with you. You are perhaps to him the good enough for now girlfriend.

"I think i need to get him to understand that this is true because he's insisting it's not the case."

I'm starting to wonder if he's gaslighting you, at the very least he's telling you what you want to hear, and maybe he believes it himself but it's meaningless if he's not prepared to make it happen.

In all your posts you just keep writing about having conversations with him, as if you are going to change his answers and his behaviour by getting him to see your point of view. You're not. If he was interested in your point of view he would have taken it on board by now. He's not interested in changing his life in order to start a family. He likes his life the way it is.

The sooner you accept that you're flogging a dead horse, stop trying to talk to him and start making actual plans to move back to the U.K., the better.

Meanwhile, why not have a fertility check-up? That will either reassure you or be a wake up call with to get a move on.

It isn't your role to persuade your DP that he is lying to himself, you aren't his therapist.

His actions show very clearly that at least for now he doesn't want a dc with you.

All you need to do is decide what you want to do with that information. If he chooses not to acknowledge his behavior that doesn't change it. You can only work on your behavior not his.

No wonder you are depressed. You are trying to mould him into what you want instead of what he is. He is not clay. He is not a character you are developing for a book.

I find it really quite troubling that you keep going on about how you need to talk him into wanting to have sex with you, analysing his deep dark issues for not wanting to have sex with you, saying he needs to work on himself for not wanting to have sex with you. If you were a man that would be downright creepy.

Stop it. He does not like you in that way. So he has pity sex after drinking once a month to shut you up, that's bad bad bad. People should not "work on" tolerating sex with people they don't want to have sex with. You want his body. You want his sperm. He does not have to give them. He is not giving them. Stop coercing him. I feel an ultimatum would be exactly that. Coercion. Stop it. It is wrong.

I think we could do it here for sure and go back to the UK if we wanted/needed
I'm from the UK and live in Germany. I had two children here. I also thought about going back to the UK at some point - and asked my exh if it would be possible. He said that sure, that would be great. Then a few years later, when I showed him a potential job he could do in the UK and suggested that we could go over before our dd started at the big school, he said that it wasn't a good time because of his career path. It was indeed never a good time. The children are now almost 21 and 23, I'm divorced and still here because this is their country and they have no plans to go anywhere. My exh would never have given me permission to take the kids to live in the UK alone; without his permission I would have been breaking international law, and he could have forced me back to Germany. Even if I had got his permission to take them to the UK, I would have been separating them from their father. When my parents divorced, my mother took me 3 hours away to the other side of the country and I saw my dad in the holidays. It was horrible and I didn't want that for my children.

If you have a child with this man, you're committing to spend the rest of your life in the same country as him, or messing your child around in a potentially very unpleasant way. Vague ideas about how you think could do this or that are really not good enough as a life plan.

@caringcarer

If he does not want to have sex with you and is 38 now think how bad will your sex life be in a couple of years. Don't waste all your fertile years on this man who seems to be stringing you along. If you left him tomorrow, it might take you a while to find another man, see if you are compatible together, grow your relationship to the point where you decide to have a baby together. That could all take 3 or 4 years. You would be 38 then and if you wanted more than 1 child it migjt be difficult. One of my dearest school friends was in a relationship with man who through their late 20's and early 30's was a workaholic. He said they had plenty of time for children when he reached partner of his solicitor firm. By the time that happened she was 38. They tried for a year but nothing happened. They went to GP and had tests. No reason she could not conceive. GP not very sympathetic and told her her most fertile years were over. She tried for another 3 months on a fertility drug. 3 months before she was 40 she had IVF. They had to pay themselves, it did not work. Then she had to wait a couple of mo this and have counselling before she was allowed to try again. Repeat this cycle twice more. She eventually got pregnant on forth round and by then had cost them over £14k. She had her son when she was 42. She would have liked a second child but was told her fertility would be even lower then do they stick with 1. We used to tell her she was leaving it too late and what if she took s while to get pregnant. She has said if she knew in her early 30's what she knows now she would just give her DH an ultimatum.

£14k!!! That's such a lot of money. Interesting to hear that looking back she wish'd she'd given her DH an ultimatum. It's a difficult thing to do but way way less difficult than what she had to go through to conceive. Plus the emotional turmoil she obvious went through because she went for counselling.

@RantyAnty

I think you've made it crystal clear to him several times. He hasn't stepped up with any actions so that tells you everything you need to know. He doesn't want to but he isn't going to actually come out and say it to you. His actions have shown you everything.

I would just set in motion plans to return to the UK around January or February. Reconnect with people there before you go so you might have some potential interviews.

"I would just set in motion plans to return to the UK around January or February. Reconnect with people there before you go so you might have some potential interviews." - This sounds like a good plan honestly. I've had maybe 4-5 serious discussions about this in the last 8 months. I haven't see much action yet

@Smudgingpastels

Please don't even think of having a child with this man.

The hell for a child split between a parent each wanting to be in 2 different countries doesn't bear thinking about.

Have you checked Portuguese law if the husband doesn't want the child to leave the country?

Having children is all about practicalities. Friends and family if you are lucky to help you. Otherwise it can be relentless drudgery and loneliness.

The most important thing in procreating is to find someone who cannot wait to impregnate you and is excited and hands on and desperate to be a dad and makes your happiness their primary goal.

Your situation is jaw droppingly bad. The fact you can't see it and think talking about it will help is already a huge banner of a red flag.

It's not something that is necessary to be spoken about op! His attitude to you, his feelings, his desire for sex are all things that are obvious!!!

Why are you so blinded by the obvious??

Don't you think to browbeat someone to having more sex with you and to have a child now with you is not treading in humiliating territory?

You need to be valued, loved and your needs placed first as it is an extremely vulnerable time for a woman when she is pregnant!

Good grief stop humiliating yourself any further with this man, he sounds lovely by the way, a gentle dreamer.

Stop pressurising him! When he feels he has met the right woman to start a family with he will change instantly.

You will always know at the back of your mind he didn't want this even if you miraculously did fall pregnant.

Stop humiliating yourself op.

"Have you checked Portuguese law if the husband doesn't want the child to leave the country?" - I haven't done this but it's something I will look into. "Having children is all about practicalities. Friends and family if you are lucky to help you. Otherwise it can be relentless drudgery and loneliness." - I think I had some optimism about this when we first came here, but knowing myself, and taking advice from others, I feel like I could find it hard without friends and family. He doesn't share this concern either, think it would be fine just me and him.

"Don't you think to browbeat someone to having more sex with you and to have a child now with you is not treading in humiliating territory?" - yeah I get this, and it's something I never thought I'd do. I think I've given him the benefit of the doubt for a long time.

Thank you for your honest, it's really helpful to me and appreciated

He's not interested in changing his life in order to start a family. He likes his life the way it is.
This is what it comes down to.

Even if he genuinely does like the idea of children, he doesn't want to leave Portugal. They both want totally different things.

@AttilaTheMeerkat

What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?

Being a rescuer and or saviour in a relationship never works out and here you are trying to be his therapist to boot. Why did you take it upon yourself to suggest some ways to try and improve things?. That was his sole job here, never yours.

He is still very much staging you along and you do not want to accept the truth. Why on earth would you want to bring a child into this anyway with him as a father and you potentially remaining unmarried too?.

I think I've learnt to be non-confrontational. That if you are difficult you might push a man away. It would make sense in this situation because I've tried to be 'cool' for a long time. Good point about how it shouldn't be my job to suggest ways to improve his sex issues as well. Why hasn't he tried to confront it? Doesn't he think it's important? Does it bother him that I might find it difficult? Again the marriage thing he talks about wanting, but it's always in the magical future.

Portugal is subject to the Hague Convention on child abduction, the same as Germany. Unless your partner was abusive you would not normally be allowed to abduct your child internationally. Thank goodness!

@AnotherEmma

"I think i need to get him to understand that this is true because he's insisting it's not the case."

I'm starting to wonder if he's gaslighting you, at the very least he's telling you what you want to hear, and maybe he believes it himself but it's meaningless if he's not prepared to make it happen.

In all your posts you just keep writing about having conversations with him, as if you are going to change his answers and his behaviour by getting him to see your point of view. You're not. If he was interested in your point of view he would have taken it on board by now. He's not interested in changing his life in order to start a family. He likes his life the way it is.

The sooner you accept that you're flogging a dead horse, stop trying to talk to him and start making actual plans to move back to the U.K., the better.

Meanwhile, why not have a fertility check-up? That will either reassure you or be a wake up call with to get a move on.

"I'm starting to wonder if he's gaslighting you" - I'm starting to wonder this as well, he says he wants kids, but when I try to have a serious conversation about it he makes me feel awkward and concludes that I'm pressuring him. So I'm left feeling confused. "The sooner you accept that you're flogging a dead horse, stop trying to talk to him and start making actual plans to move back to the U.K., the better." - thank you, it's going to be difficult to accept but I really think you are right.

Good idea on the fertility check up

@StrippedFridge

No wonder you are depressed. You are trying to mould him into what you want instead of what he is. He is not clay. He is not a character you are developing for a book.

I find it really quite troubling that you keep going on about how you need to talk him into wanting to have sex with you, analysing his deep dark issues for not wanting to have sex with you, saying he needs to work on himself for not wanting to have sex with you. If you were a man that would be downright creepy.

Stop it. He does not like you in that way. So he has pity sex after drinking once a month to shut you up, that's bad bad bad. People should not "work on" tolerating sex with people they don't want to have sex with. You want his body. You want his sperm. He does not have to give them. He is not giving them. Stop coercing him. I feel an ultimatum would be exactly that. Coercion. Stop it. It is wrong.

"If you were a man that would be downright creepy." "People should not "work on" tolerating sex with people they don't want to have sex with." - These are very good points.

@ravenmum

I think we could do it here for sure and go back to the UK if we wanted/needed I'm from the UK and live in Germany. I had two children here. I also thought about going back to the UK at some point - and asked my exh if it would be possible. He said that sure, that would be great. Then a few years later, when I showed him a potential job he could do in the UK and suggested that we could go over before our dd started at the big school, he said that it wasn't a good time because of his career path. It was indeed never a good time. The children are now almost 21 and 23, I'm divorced and still here because this is their country and they have no plans to go anywhere. My exh would never have given me permission to take the kids to live in the UK alone; without his permission I would have been breaking international law, and he could have forced me back to Germany. Even if I had got his permission to take them to the UK, I would have been separating them from their father. When my parents divorced, my mother took me 3 hours away to the other side of the country and I saw my dad in the holidays. It was horrible and I didn't want that for my children.

If you have a child with this man, you're committing to spend the rest of your life in the same country as him, or messing your child around in a potentially very unpleasant way. Vague ideas about how you think could do this or that are really not good enough as a life plan.

Is your ex British or German? Does he see the kids? I'm so sorry it turned out like that

He's German, but nationality doesn't make a difference afaik. If you were both living with the kids in the UK and he decided to take them to Portugal and didn't come back, you'd also be able to use the law to get your kids back to their usual place of residence.

My situation wasn't ideal, but I have a decent job here, and although I hoped to go to the UK, I knew from the start there was a good chance I'd end up here, and took that risk when I had the kids. Just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into.