Help end medical misogyny. Sign our petition.

Help end medical misogyny.
Sign our petition.

Sign the petition

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

ttc for a year - now he says I'm an abuser

395 replies

SnowWhite1985 · 27/08/2020 02:24

My partner and I have been together almost 6 years. We're both 35 (I'm almost 36). About a year and a half ago we took some time away from our relationship (temporarily) because I wanted kids and he didn't (at least for the foreseeable future). Prior to that he'd said he'd be ready in a year, and then the next year said can we wait another year etc. After getting fed up of this, I told him that he needed to tell me straight what he wanted because I didn't think I'd be able to sacrifice having kids to be with him if he didn't want kids. When we were apart (it lasted a couple of months), he spent a lot of time with one of my close female friends, who has a young daughter. He hadn't wanted to split/take time apart, and after spending time with my friend he sent me all these messages begging me to get back together. He said he wanted kids with me so badly and that spending time with this woman and her daughter had made him realise how much he wants to be a dad. He said he was just scared about being a good dad and he wanted us to be in the best position we could be to be parents. At the time the only two friends I told about this thought it was manipulative, as he did a 360 going from "I'm absolutely not ready to have kids right now" to "it's my dream to have kids and please don't take that away from me it's all I want and I want it with you". He said to me that I had taken away his dreams and that his dream was to have kids with me. So we reconciled.

We started ttc almost immediately after that. I started doing all sorts of tests, researching etc to give us the best chance. I have low AMH but all my other tests came back normal. He was reluctant to get tests. He was supposed to be getting sperm tests but put it off and hasn't done it yet. He didn't give me any emotional support or take any interest in my tests etc but I didn't think that was a massive red flag - it just felt a bit lonely so I turned to the wonderful ttc boards on here for support.

Anyway, this month we missed the first two days of my fertile window. My partner - as soon as he knew it was my fertile window - said he was struggling to cope and had to focus on work. He barely talked to me for a couple of days. I asked him if we could try to conceive at least once this cycle and he got upset with me saying he had to prioritise work. After I asked him again what was up and if something bad had happened at work, he said he doesn't want kids right now and that he has to focus on work and can't cope with the pressure of doing "both". I asked what he meant by "doing both" and he said his work and a relationship. He said he never wanted to ttc, but that he thought it was the only way we'd stay together because being "just us" would never be enough for me. He said he wants kids in the (distant) future but not anytime soon because the timing isn't right. He said he can't even focus on our relationship right now never mind kids because he has to focus on work.

Earlier tonight we had a big argument. I was feeling particularly emotional because it's close to my ovulation and it felt like such a missed opportunity. I feel like I'm losing time to ever have kids. And he was barely talking to me which felt like some sort of punishment. In any event, I started off really quite calm, but then I got incredibly upset because he wouldn't look at me and he wouldn't say what he wants or how he feels or where we stand. So I just got more and more frustrated. He ended up not saying very much and I just got upset and talked about my feelings a lot. I did give him plenty of time to talk but then it was just incredibly long, awkward silences. What he did say was that he feels that this relationship was a means to an end for me and that I'm only with him because I want kids. I said isn't it normal to want a family with the person you love and who you're in a long-term committed relationship with? But he said it hurts him that he'll never be enough for me and that I prioritise having kids above our relationship. He said I've made it a condition on us being together and he can't deal with that.

As it became clear to me that he doesn't actually want kids, I said that what he said to me a year ago now felt misleading, and that I felt like he's been stringing me along when it wasn't really what he wanted. He says he meant it at the time but that his feelings fluctuate from day to day. He said sometimes he feels fine with ttc in theory and other times he doesn't and he said in practice it makes him feel physically sick because I'm ready for it and he's not. He wouldn't say when he'd be ready, if ever. I then asked him to describe his ideal life scenario over the next 5-10 years if there were no rush or fertility issues. How he wanted life to be. He then proceeded to describe where he would live, work, success in professional life etc and didn't even mention me or kids.

Anyway, we then took a bit of a time out as he said he didn't know how he felt about me or about having kids with me and that he needed time to think. I just got more and more upset with the silence and the lack of answers. So I went to the kitchen to do the dishes and ended up breaking down sobbing then I threw a glass at the wall. He was upstairs at the time so nowhere nearby. He then told me to leave as he couldn't stand to look at me but I proceeded to clean up the glass. Once I finished cleaning it he said I'm an abusive and violent partner. He asked me again to leave and said he couldn't even look at me right now. So I left. I'm staying in a hotel last night. We live together but I bought the house we stay in - so technically if anyone should leave it should be him. But I also felt really ashamed.

I still have no answers and I haven't heard from him since. He says he definitely wants to be with me but he'd rather it be "just us" for the foreseeable future (or forever because by then it would be too late for me to have kids anyway, which he acknowledges). I suppose he is right to say that I've made our relationship conditional on us having kids. But I don't think it's fair for him to ask or expect me to give up ever having kids just because he doesn't want them right now. He also pointed out that time isn't an issue for him as he can likely have kids into his 50s - so this is an issue for me not him.

In summary, it's all a big fat horrible mess. The conversation, which lasted for hours, was really distressing for me. But I don't feel like he's listened to, or will even acknowledge, anything I've said now - because I threw the glass and I'm now the abuser. I just can't see how we could go from actively ttc a few days ago to this now.

At the same time I feel like I already knew all of this deep down and none of it was a surprise to me. He already showed all of this before he begged me for us to reconcile last time. His actions throughout the ttc also showed me that but I chose to believe his earlier words, which didn't match his actions.

I don't think I do want to be with him if he doesn't want kids with me. I've always thought of relationships as a (potential) family, rather than just being about two people. He seems to think I have to put him first before everything and not want anything myself. I made it clear from when we first met that having a big family was really important to me.

It all feels horrible because now he's acting like I was using him to have kids because that's all that's on my one track mind and it was some sort of plan of mine from the start to use him as a means to an end. He actually said that the relationship was just a means to an end for me and that all I wanted was kids. And he's saying I'm abusive and violent so as to avoid acknowledging any responsibility for his own action. It's like me throwing the glass cancels out everything I've been through for the last few years. Before I threw the glass he acknowledged he'd never been there for me emotionally but said he just didn't have the bandwidth for a relationship most of the time as he can only concentrate and expend energy on one thing (work).

I've found it all incredibly unsettling - I'm starting to feel like I was responsible for this entire argument when in fact he initiated it by completely changing his mind about ttc. I feel so guilty for smashing the glass. He wouldn't look at me afterwards and told me not to come near him or even think about touching him. I felt horrible.

I know we won't talk for a few days at least, possibly weeks, because that's the way he is whenever we have a disagreement. When anything is difficult emotionally he retreats and I'm left wondering where I stand for ages.

But I think the relationship is over. I'm finding it difficult to separate my feelings regarding the relationship from the grief I feel about not becoming a mother anytime in the near future, or perhaps ever at all. It feels like more lost years and that time really is running out for me to ever have children. He's been incredibly distant recently but I just put up with it and tried to focus on other things because I was grateful we were finally ttc. I feel like he's taken that last bit of hope away from me. And so I threw a glass.

OP posts:
baileys6904 · 27/08/2020 11:19

Why do you think men can feel like their time is running out for babies.

If a man in his late 30s posted here that he desperate for kids but his partner changed her mind after a split and agreed then went back on their work, so he lost it and smashed a glass, he would not be told that it was more then his right, that she'd been wasting his time and he had every right to smash up what he liked in his own home, and get his ass home and chuck her out.

It wouldn't happen, thankfully. But on that note, it shouldn't happen for this gender situation either.

Hellbentwellwent · 27/08/2020 11:20

aminuts23 Flowers

Persipan · 27/08/2020 11:21

It's the fact that the owner felt bad enough to leave her own house which suggests to me that what she has done is more than what she has admitted to here.
It suggests to me that she's been subject to such guilt-trippy weirdness that leaving her own house seemed like the right thing to do. It also suggests to me a generosity of spirit of the part of the OP that her partner seems to be taking considerable advantage of. And which isn't generally a hallmark of abusers.

SoulofanAggron · 27/08/2020 11:21

To me he sounds dodgy in a lot of ways- he is the one that's abusive.

Ok you want a baby but unlike PP's I don't think that 'obsession' is wrong- it's just what you want, and that's fine. You wouldn'tve pressurized him but now the pressure is on whether you want it to be or not, as there's a time constraint.

Then he calls women who have a child alone 'selfish'-- this is all manipulative tactics to try and make you stay with him. Claiming he can't live without you is classic.

Please separate from him ASAP and start on your plans. xxx

SkyMoo1 · 27/08/2020 11:25

I've never commented on a thread like this before but he sounds terrible to me - manipulative, dishonest, selfish. Having a child with him sounds like a recipe for disaster. You're under a lot of stress - trying to conceive at the best of times is stressful. Throwing the glass was absolutely NOT abusive, he is twisting things to get his own way. I can't believe you stayed in a hotel when it's your home. When you break up and he moves out you need to be firm this time. Consider blocking his number if he starts harassing you to come back. I would seriously consider donor insemination, esp at your age and with low AMH. You do not want to look back at this point of your life and feel bitterness and regret because of this guy. If having a child means so much to you, you need to really go for it now. Take charge of your life, it is yours after all.

Btw, I had my kids at 39 and 41 so later isn't impossible but I was lucky. Fertility really does fall as we age.

Flowers
SoulofanAggron · 27/08/2020 11:28

Oh and you're not an abuser (that's manipulative too.) You were just gutted. If you'd thrown something when he was in the same room that'd be different, but you didn't.

Persipan · 27/08/2020 11:28

@20mum

Foster. Adopt. The world is overwhelmed with dumped unwanted humans. They are here, now, desperately needing all that brilliant mothering and care you are desperate to give. Or are you? Fostering would be a test. Are you sure you would still adore a child, even if it is born 'imperfect', or has become a physically or mentally disabled 40 year old, not a cute cross between a puppy and a dressup doll. Lots of people spend years longing obsessively for a puppy, then dump it. Get your child from the human dump. If you really are capable of unselfish caring, go into care work, or 'adopt' some isolated elderly.
Sigh. Once again, for those in the back: adoption is not a system for finding children for people who want them. It is a system for finding families for children who need them. It is a wonderful, but intensely challenging thing, and holding it up as the standard women should have to meet before considering conceiving a child is wholly unreasonable.
rainbowstardrops · 27/08/2020 11:31

Ditch him!!!!! He's stringy you along with no intention of starting a family any time soon (if ever). He knows your fertile years are heading towards the end and he's just holding out for that.
He's told you to leave YOUR house and made it clear that he can't focus on more than one think at once??? Is he 12????

Get back to YOUR house, kick him out and focus on yourself and becoming a mum. Good luck.

rainbowstardrops · 27/08/2020 11:32

*stringing 🙄

picosdeeuropa · 27/08/2020 11:33

Go back to your home and ask him to leave- the fact he felt able to tell you to leave your own home says alot....

roundturnandtwohalfhitches · 27/08/2020 11:37

He's gaslighting you, manipulating you, giving you the silent treatment, lying to you. He doesn't want kids and doesn't want you. He wants what you can give him - in material terms but he doesn't mean any of it. Even the hanging around with your friend and her child will have been done to manipulate you. He's toxic and its better you find out now and get out now than have kids with him. Your life and theirs woud've been hell.

Hellbentwellwent · 27/08/2020 11:37

perspian absolutely, I have never heard anyone who has ever been through the adoption process or fostered say anything remotely similar to what 20mum has said. Adoption is incredibly difficult, the vetting process is intense and you are most unlikely to be approved unless you can demonstrate that you have 100% been through the grieving process of giving up on your own fertility or have completed your own family. It can takes years to be approved, most children will have attachment difficulties coming from insecure backgrounds potentially with trauma involved or drug addiction in utero. And referring to children from this background as coming from the human dump is appalling.

42daystogo · 27/08/2020 11:39

I havent read all the comments but

He also pointed out that time isn't an issue for him as he can likely have kids into his 50s - so this is an issue for me not him.*

But ^ if age is an issue for you and not him, who exactly is he planning to have children with when hes in his 40s/50s and you're past your fertile window?! That to me says hes happy to plod along and if he wants kids later in life he can... just with someone else!

rorosemary · 27/08/2020 11:39

@20mum

Foster. Adopt. The world is overwhelmed with dumped unwanted humans. They are here, now, desperately needing all that brilliant mothering and care you are desperate to give. Or are you? Fostering would be a test. Are you sure you would still adore a child, even if it is born 'imperfect', or has become a physically or mentally disabled 40 year old, not a cute cross between a puppy and a dressup doll. Lots of people spend years longing obsessively for a puppy, then dump it. Get your child from the human dump. If you really are capable of unselfish caring, go into care work, or 'adopt' some isolated elderly.
Foster or adoptive children are not consolation prizes for people who don't have children. It's totally a different choice. I find it concerning that so many people see these children as some kind of default option to a biological child. They are not, they are children who need parents who understand what they are going through. They don't need parents who chose them just because of not having/being able to gave biological children. Besides, there is much to say for placing them in a family where already children are present.
RandomMess · 27/08/2020 11:44

I really hope you have gone back to your house and put the wheels in motion to sell it/buy him out etc.

He has been using the "love card" to control you all this time he will use last night to try and emotionally blackmail you further.

Thanks
SpaceOP · 27/08/2020 11:47

RUN RUN RUN.

Also, suspect he's had a vasectomy.

Mittens030869 · 27/08/2020 11:50

But he said it hurts him that he'll never be enough for me and that I prioritise having kids above our relationship.

But this is how it is for so many people in healthy relationships. My DH and I always agreed that we wanted DC. When we found that I couldn't, we made a joint decision to adopt.

A couple trying for a baby need to work as a team, otherwise it will never work.

Your DP doesn't want kids. That's fine. But he conned you into coming back to him by saying that he wanted to TTC; that was so manipulative. He's the one who is abusive, not you. Your emotions overwhelmed you and you finally couldn't cope.

exPR · 27/08/2020 11:50

@20mum

Foster. Adopt. The world is overwhelmed with dumped unwanted humans. They are here, now, desperately needing all that brilliant mothering and care you are desperate to give. Or are you? Fostering would be a test. Are you sure you would still adore a child, even if it is born 'imperfect', or has become a physically or mentally disabled 40 year old, not a cute cross between a puppy and a dressup doll. Lots of people spend years longing obsessively for a puppy, then dump it. Get your child from the human dump. If you really are capable of unselfish caring, go into care work, or 'adopt' some isolated elderly.
This is one of the most patronising, wrongheaded and sociopathic things I have ever read here.

The foster and adoption system is not a ‘human dump’ for ‘unwanted humans’.

Children in that system are not consolation or booby prizes for women who are struggling to conceive or want children without having partners.
They are children who are in need of families and support that not everyone can give, no matter how caring.

Women who want to have children don’t have to ‘prove’ their maternal capabilities or selflessness by caring for the elderly or foreseeing how they would care for a disabled child as an adult or ‘go into care work’.

You have a very disturbing view of the world, women and mothers and have no business giving any advice on their lives.

I am genuinely shocked that you have no shame about sharing this view as if it’s in any way normal.

Vodkacranberryplease · 27/08/2020 11:53

[quote Aminuts23]@SnowWhite1985 your DP sounds exactly like my ex. After 7 years of heartbreak and him putting off getting his fertility checked out I left. I left it too late and was in my 40s. I won’t have DC now. It’s the biggest regret of my life. Don’t be me. He won’t change. Leave him now, take time to recover then go it alone. Good luck to you[/quote]
Ive seen this happen so many times to people I know. Heartbreaking. These men just dont care, its all about them. All you can ever do is look after yourself & ensure that you are only ever doing what you need to instead of putting this on hold for someone who probably will not change their mind.

'Accidents' as a rule dont end that well. He will love the child probably but will resent you even if he doesnt show it. Ive seen a lot of men have affairs because they feel resentful that someone 'did that' to them. Not right of course but it really does happen.

Toomuchtrouble4me · 27/08/2020 11:54

Its OVER and if you really want kids - MOVE ON NOW BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!!!
As for throwing your glass in your home - what the fuck, so what?
Am flabbergasted that you left! Kick him out, he'll talk the talk, don't listen - your clock is ticking, get rid. He's a manipulator, he may well want you and not kids, ever, but then he needs to tell you that so that you can decide.
You sound well set up - there are sperm banks you know, my friend has gorgeous 4yr old twin girls from sperm donation.

Mittens030869 · 27/08/2020 11:55

Foster or adoptive children are not consolation prizes for people who don't have children. It's totally a different choice. I find it concerning that so many people see these children as some kind of default option to a biological child. They are not, they are children who need parents who understand what they are going through. They don't need parents who chose them just because of not having/being able to gave biological children. Besides, there is much to say for placing them in a family where already children are present.

As an adoptive mum, I couldn't agree more. Adoption is very tough, and you need to be fully committed to the child you adopt, not view them as a consolation prize.

MinesAPintOfTea · 27/08/2020 11:55

I'll disagree with the general response: smashing things in anger when he is in earshot is violence. It may be born of desperation, but it is violence. But that's a sign that the relationship is over for both your sakes.

Leave, but also get counselling about how to better manage violent thoughts. How will you cope with a toddler pushing all your buttons after a sleepless night?

Toomuchtrouble4me · 27/08/2020 11:57

20mum

Foster. Adopt. The world is overwhelmed with dumped unwanted humans. They are here, now, desperately needing all that brilliant mothering and care you are desperate to give. Or are you? Fostering would be a test. Are you sure you would still adore a child, even if it is born 'imperfect', or has become a physically or mentally disabled 40 year old, not a cute cross between a puppy and a dressup doll. Lots of people spend years longing obsessively for a puppy, then dump it. Get your child from the human dump. If you really are capable of unselfish caring, go into care work, or 'adopt' some isolated elderly

This is one of the most fucked up things I've ever read on MN, and there have been some corkers.

ClementineWoolysocks · 27/08/2020 12:05

@Inpeace

Concentrating on the actions and not the words or feelings - given you agreed to ttc

If you had both agreed to get a new house you’d be on Rightmove regularly so as not to miss any opportunities.

Or you might be the type of couple where one does all the researching and the other joins in for viewings - given you have the same goal

If one person does neither then there is no new house

On the subject of his feelings, hurtful words and deviating from goals - ttc when there feels like a
Time imperative is difficult it’s Possible he’s switching to bail out, maybe feeing like a failure as it’s not happened yet could lead to him self soothing by deciding he doesn’t want it anyway or it’s just not meant to be etc. Then you will leave him and it’s all your fault

Maybe he’s worried about the sperm test identifying a problem and that you would then leave him as he can’t give you your ultimate goal

I would say remind him of your commitment to him and that ‘project family’ is about building in your 6 years together as a team for the future and that your first and only choice is to do that with him (assuming it is)

Tell him how far you would go to achieve this with him (sperm and Or egg donar ivf surrogate)

Ask if he is happy to work towards creating this family together as he has always indicated - how far would he go? Sperm count, ivf, adoption, fostering ..... what?

Remind him that as a couple if he is committed to you and your joint family project he would respect your biological time line as it’s a feature of your ‘team’ - it is not your choice, you being a brat a control freak or an abuser!

Imagine he was right there with you charting and hitting that fertile window and the all interventions after what if none of that works and you still are without a child do you still want to be with him - he thinks not and he feel out of control of his own destiny.

So
If his sperm test result is poor what will you do - leave? Want to agree how to solve the problem together?

What in the actual fuck are you talking about?
DBML · 27/08/2020 12:11

Op, go and get your house back. Ask him to leave and be done with it. It won’t change, not for a long time.

He will one day possibly want kids, but not soon enough for you.

Neither my husband nor I wanted kids, but we had a little accident at the age of 24. (We’d been together since we were 15). We had a son and it was a shock. Afterwards we agreed no more and that’s the way it stayed.

Suddenly in his 40’s DH is desperate for more children. NOW he wants a big family. I’m too old (we’ll, I’m in my 40’s and our son is growing up fast, so I feel too old and don’t want any more children).

He’s accepting of my view, but a few times a year he pleads to try again. I upset him every time by firmly saying no and it irritates me that he doesn’t let it go.

If we had never had a child, it would be right now in our 40’s that he would finally have changed his mind. And not everyone does change their mind, I certainly haven’t.

So stop messing about and find someone who wants a family. Stop letting this guy manipulate you into the life he wants.