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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

ttc for a year - now he says I'm an abuser

395 replies

SnowWhite1985 · 27/08/2020 02:24

My partner and I have been together almost 6 years. We're both 35 (I'm almost 36). About a year and a half ago we took some time away from our relationship (temporarily) because I wanted kids and he didn't (at least for the foreseeable future). Prior to that he'd said he'd be ready in a year, and then the next year said can we wait another year etc. After getting fed up of this, I told him that he needed to tell me straight what he wanted because I didn't think I'd be able to sacrifice having kids to be with him if he didn't want kids. When we were apart (it lasted a couple of months), he spent a lot of time with one of my close female friends, who has a young daughter. He hadn't wanted to split/take time apart, and after spending time with my friend he sent me all these messages begging me to get back together. He said he wanted kids with me so badly and that spending time with this woman and her daughter had made him realise how much he wants to be a dad. He said he was just scared about being a good dad and he wanted us to be in the best position we could be to be parents. At the time the only two friends I told about this thought it was manipulative, as he did a 360 going from "I'm absolutely not ready to have kids right now" to "it's my dream to have kids and please don't take that away from me it's all I want and I want it with you". He said to me that I had taken away his dreams and that his dream was to have kids with me. So we reconciled.

We started ttc almost immediately after that. I started doing all sorts of tests, researching etc to give us the best chance. I have low AMH but all my other tests came back normal. He was reluctant to get tests. He was supposed to be getting sperm tests but put it off and hasn't done it yet. He didn't give me any emotional support or take any interest in my tests etc but I didn't think that was a massive red flag - it just felt a bit lonely so I turned to the wonderful ttc boards on here for support.

Anyway, this month we missed the first two days of my fertile window. My partner - as soon as he knew it was my fertile window - said he was struggling to cope and had to focus on work. He barely talked to me for a couple of days. I asked him if we could try to conceive at least once this cycle and he got upset with me saying he had to prioritise work. After I asked him again what was up and if something bad had happened at work, he said he doesn't want kids right now and that he has to focus on work and can't cope with the pressure of doing "both". I asked what he meant by "doing both" and he said his work and a relationship. He said he never wanted to ttc, but that he thought it was the only way we'd stay together because being "just us" would never be enough for me. He said he wants kids in the (distant) future but not anytime soon because the timing isn't right. He said he can't even focus on our relationship right now never mind kids because he has to focus on work.

Earlier tonight we had a big argument. I was feeling particularly emotional because it's close to my ovulation and it felt like such a missed opportunity. I feel like I'm losing time to ever have kids. And he was barely talking to me which felt like some sort of punishment. In any event, I started off really quite calm, but then I got incredibly upset because he wouldn't look at me and he wouldn't say what he wants or how he feels or where we stand. So I just got more and more frustrated. He ended up not saying very much and I just got upset and talked about my feelings a lot. I did give him plenty of time to talk but then it was just incredibly long, awkward silences. What he did say was that he feels that this relationship was a means to an end for me and that I'm only with him because I want kids. I said isn't it normal to want a family with the person you love and who you're in a long-term committed relationship with? But he said it hurts him that he'll never be enough for me and that I prioritise having kids above our relationship. He said I've made it a condition on us being together and he can't deal with that.

As it became clear to me that he doesn't actually want kids, I said that what he said to me a year ago now felt misleading, and that I felt like he's been stringing me along when it wasn't really what he wanted. He says he meant it at the time but that his feelings fluctuate from day to day. He said sometimes he feels fine with ttc in theory and other times he doesn't and he said in practice it makes him feel physically sick because I'm ready for it and he's not. He wouldn't say when he'd be ready, if ever. I then asked him to describe his ideal life scenario over the next 5-10 years if there were no rush or fertility issues. How he wanted life to be. He then proceeded to describe where he would live, work, success in professional life etc and didn't even mention me or kids.

Anyway, we then took a bit of a time out as he said he didn't know how he felt about me or about having kids with me and that he needed time to think. I just got more and more upset with the silence and the lack of answers. So I went to the kitchen to do the dishes and ended up breaking down sobbing then I threw a glass at the wall. He was upstairs at the time so nowhere nearby. He then told me to leave as he couldn't stand to look at me but I proceeded to clean up the glass. Once I finished cleaning it he said I'm an abusive and violent partner. He asked me again to leave and said he couldn't even look at me right now. So I left. I'm staying in a hotel last night. We live together but I bought the house we stay in - so technically if anyone should leave it should be him. But I also felt really ashamed.

I still have no answers and I haven't heard from him since. He says he definitely wants to be with me but he'd rather it be "just us" for the foreseeable future (or forever because by then it would be too late for me to have kids anyway, which he acknowledges). I suppose he is right to say that I've made our relationship conditional on us having kids. But I don't think it's fair for him to ask or expect me to give up ever having kids just because he doesn't want them right now. He also pointed out that time isn't an issue for him as he can likely have kids into his 50s - so this is an issue for me not him.

In summary, it's all a big fat horrible mess. The conversation, which lasted for hours, was really distressing for me. But I don't feel like he's listened to, or will even acknowledge, anything I've said now - because I threw the glass and I'm now the abuser. I just can't see how we could go from actively ttc a few days ago to this now.

At the same time I feel like I already knew all of this deep down and none of it was a surprise to me. He already showed all of this before he begged me for us to reconcile last time. His actions throughout the ttc also showed me that but I chose to believe his earlier words, which didn't match his actions.

I don't think I do want to be with him if he doesn't want kids with me. I've always thought of relationships as a (potential) family, rather than just being about two people. He seems to think I have to put him first before everything and not want anything myself. I made it clear from when we first met that having a big family was really important to me.

It all feels horrible because now he's acting like I was using him to have kids because that's all that's on my one track mind and it was some sort of plan of mine from the start to use him as a means to an end. He actually said that the relationship was just a means to an end for me and that all I wanted was kids. And he's saying I'm abusive and violent so as to avoid acknowledging any responsibility for his own action. It's like me throwing the glass cancels out everything I've been through for the last few years. Before I threw the glass he acknowledged he'd never been there for me emotionally but said he just didn't have the bandwidth for a relationship most of the time as he can only concentrate and expend energy on one thing (work).

I've found it all incredibly unsettling - I'm starting to feel like I was responsible for this entire argument when in fact he initiated it by completely changing his mind about ttc. I feel so guilty for smashing the glass. He wouldn't look at me afterwards and told me not to come near him or even think about touching him. I felt horrible.

I know we won't talk for a few days at least, possibly weeks, because that's the way he is whenever we have a disagreement. When anything is difficult emotionally he retreats and I'm left wondering where I stand for ages.

But I think the relationship is over. I'm finding it difficult to separate my feelings regarding the relationship from the grief I feel about not becoming a mother anytime in the near future, or perhaps ever at all. It feels like more lost years and that time really is running out for me to ever have children. He's been incredibly distant recently but I just put up with it and tried to focus on other things because I was grateful we were finally ttc. I feel like he's taken that last bit of hope away from me. And so I threw a glass.

OP posts:
fuandylp · 27/08/2020 12:13

Also, suspect he's had a vasectomy.

Yup, wouldn't rule this out. I have a very good friend in her late 40s.
She was with this bloke for around a decade from her early 30s on. He was talking about ttc and wanting a baby with her. She really wanted a family. They tried for 10 years and nothing happened. She went to get all kinds of tests. He managed to wriggle out of his tests or lied about them - I'm not sure.
There was no issue with her fertility but still she didn't get pregnant.

When she was early 40s he dumped her and then said something on the lines of "BTW, do you know why you didn't get pregnant? Because I had a vasectomy before I met you".

Complete and utter bastard. She's in a terrible state now with her mental health as he robbed her of the chance to have a family.

DishingOutDone · 27/08/2020 12:14

You know OP when I was 36 I started etc with a man who might have wanted kids but was just an abusive dick - I did it because I had very low self esteem, thought I'd never meet anyone else in time to have kids etc. There was a point at which, coincidentally, he thought he might have a fertility issue but during investigations into that I did conceive - DD1 came along when I was 38 and DD2 when I was 40.

Obviously they are amazing, the love of my life, but I then stayed with this prick and am still trying to get away today, when DD1 is 19. Please learn by my sorry mistakes - definitely have that baby but not with this man who clearly doesn't care for you and has no fucking idea what he does care about.

ProfessorPootle · 27/08/2020 12:19

He sounds horrible, get him out of your house today. He should have been the one to go to a hotel, not you. His behaviour has been manipulative, he’s trying to string you along until it’s too late for you to conceive. He’ll then leave you and start a family with someone else.

Get rid and start looking into the sperm donor option. At 36 you still have time to meet someone else and start a family, I’ve had a few friends who met someone mid-late 30s they were upfront about wanting to start a family and have all gone on to have 1-2 kids each with a partner who wanted the same.

LilyWater · 27/08/2020 12:25

@SnowWhite1985

Yeah I guess I just have to put what I want first for a change. I’ve made massive compromises and delayed things much longer than I felt comfortable with because he said he just needed a bit more time. I’ll definitely consider having a child on my own. I looked into it a bit before and it all felt very impersonal. But such is life I suppose.
Never make such massive compromises for men. Ever. Especially when he's not even chosen to commit to you via marriage. He's become so cocky now since you've given him absolutely everything over the years, including stamping on your own dreams for children without any commitment on his part. It's been very clear to him that he's the idol in your life. No wonder he wants to continue to string you along. Stop engaging in endless meaningless chats designed to keep you stuck where you are and actually take action. Tell him to leave and start looking for his own place immediately and start looking for a man who actually wants children. It's not too late for you, as long as you leave the relationship now. You may also find therapy helpful so you can avoid compromising your wants/needs in the future and stop attracting manipulative men Flowers
ekidmxcl · 27/08/2020 12:26

Get rid, right away.

You've been honest.

He's strung you along, blown hot and cold etc.

Sperm donor for sure. You can still live the life that you want.

ekidmxcl · 27/08/2020 12:26

You aren't married - better and better!
Easy to get rid.

pinkyredrose · 27/08/2020 12:27

i think it would be a great idea to have a baby with a gay friend, the baby would have 2 loving parents.

Get that freeloading fucker out of your house today! Tomorrow is the first day of the rest of your life!

Dancingdeer77 · 27/08/2020 12:27

He won’t be a good dad. He just absolutely won’t. So actually you have a choice between being a single mum with no drama, well planned. OR being a single mum with a man who will gaslight you, won’t take a fair share and may turn round and say to the child (certainly to you) “I never wanted them anyway”. I hugely value my DH’s role as a dad but I know which I’d choose in your shoes.

Anniegetyourgun · 27/08/2020 12:30

If he's right, and you're an obsessed, violent abuser, then do the man a big favour and set him free. Today. No need to give him your house as compensation though. If by some unlikely chance the glass you broke was a special one he was particularly fond of (I shall be very surprised if this were the case), perhaps buy him a replacement, and wrap it carefully for transit when he leaves. (Side note: I think as a general rule people at the end of their tether break their own stuff whilst abusers break other people's. This is because the former lashes out at whatever is to hand while the latter deliberately targets something to cause distress or fear to their victim. That is why I expect to hear the OP broke a random glass from the kitchen rather than "D"P's heirloom, sporting trophy or best brandy balloon.)

From my own experience, concerning which I must say that 20+ years of emotional manipulation does some bad things to one's natural self-control, the best treatment for anger issues is to remove the source. In this case your "D"P. I bet you're much calmer when he's moved in with your friend out.

Didkdt · 27/08/2020 12:37

If I'm honest I think you should embark on some counselling before taking your next step (after you separate) what are you looking for in parenthood and family life and why you would settle on such a low barrier in a relationship to achieve this.
I also have to say your OP does sound very focused on making a baby rather than who this partner was and why you were with them. That's not to say they were in the right at all, but why did you choose to spend those years with him?

GabsAlot · 27/08/2020 12:40

he doesnt want a child hes been gaslighting yu the whole time and trying to convince you that hes more important than having a baby

and you sholdnt have left if he felt that way he should have left its not even his house

JingsMahBucket · 27/08/2020 12:43

@fuandylp my goodness, that’s just evil.

CrispsAddict · 27/08/2020 12:45

@fuandylp That's terrible. I swear some mean get a twisted enjoyment and a power trip out of wasting women's precious fertile years.
It's the same with men who say they want to get married but never propose and are never "ready".
Op, you've had good advice. You're not the abusive and selfish one, he is. You've been honest from the start about wanting children. He's strung you along, manipulating you by dangling the thing you really want in front of you then withholding it. Cut ties and think of it as a lucky escape because he'd have been a terrible father and you'll 100% do all the work. So you might as well do it on your own but without the aggro of a useless partner.

cooldarkroom · 27/08/2020 12:46

NRTFT. He told you to leave YOUR OWN HOUSE, you went to a hotel.
Fuck that shit.

TheWernethWife · 27/08/2020 12:50

MinesAPintOfTea what do you mean about leave - this is OPs house, she owns it.

Heffalooomia · 27/08/2020 12:52

OP has been trusting and honest, the man has completely exploited and abused her trust
He has been jerking you around for his own convenience and an amusement ☹️
I hope you see the light💡

LilyWater · 27/08/2020 12:52

@ALLIS0N

Don’t have a baby with a gay friend. There’s no way to avoid legal battles - if he’s the bio dad he has rights, if he chooses to exercise them. The courts will always put The welfare of the child first, whatever legal agreements you and he enter into before TTC.

Impersonal is the way forward. Last things you need is to enter into another agreement with a man who may or may not want kids and could change his mind about what he wants, when he wants it and how much involvement he wants.

Anyway, do you really want a child with a man who will want all the nice bits of parenting ( Christmas Day, first day at school ) leaving you with all the hard work ? Because that’s usually what they mean by “ we want to be dads “. They mean Instagram dads.

If they wanted to be full time dads they could adopt. The fact that they haven’t shows you how serious they are.

It’s not your job to make their dream happen. Starting working on your own objectives, not other people’s.

Hear, hear.

Only on this forum have I come across people pushing this gay friend father angle.

Mittens030869 · 27/08/2020 12:53

Side note: I think as a general rule people at the end of their tether break their own stuff whilst abusers break other people's. This is because the former lashes out at whatever is to hand while the latter deliberately targets something to cause distress or fear to their victim. That is why I expect to hear the OP broke a random glass from the kitchen rather than "D"P's heirloom, sporting trophy or best brandy balloon.

Yes! I acted like this when in a state a few years ago, when at a low point with my PTSD symptoms because of my childhood SA. I was in a rage against my (dead) abusive F and kicked the bath panels once, and they broke.

It was highly embarrassing to admit to my DH what I'd done. He certainly didn't label me an abuser, though (he and our DDs had been out for the afternoon).

It was a complete one-off, as really does seem to have been the case with this OP.

Nanny0gg · 27/08/2020 12:54

@MinesAPintOfTea

I'll disagree with the general response: smashing things in anger when he is in earshot is violence. It may be born of desperation, but it is violence. But that's a sign that the relationship is over for both your sakes.

Leave, but also get counselling about how to better manage violent thoughts. How will you cope with a toddler pushing all your buttons after a sleepless night?

Toddlers dont gaslight you or lead you on.

And its HER house!

Polnm · 27/08/2020 12:55

My PA became pregnant on a 1 night stand with a colleague. This was a shock to her as she only had 1 ovary and had been told conception would be hard. She had lived with a guy with 3 children for 10 years and they had tried for children throughout that time with no luck and had just broken up. After her unexpected conception she met him and he confessed that he had had a vasectomy 6 months into their relationship, I suspect he just wanted cheap childcare

So I wouldn’t rule out a vasectomy

Zaphodsotherhead · 27/08/2020 13:05

I'm curious about the PP who says that breaking a glass 'in earshot' of a partner can be construed as abusive.

Has NOBODY ever just thought 'fuck this shit' and thrown something when other people are in the house? Or does it just matter because it was a glass and audible?

I've chucked my kids dirty clothes all over the place (whilst they were in the room too!) in sheer frustration at them not picking up after themselves. Is that abusive? Or, because dirty socks hitting the washing machine door doesn't make a noise, is it different?

I'd say abuse is in the intent, not in the action. And OP didn't intend to intimidate or upset anyone by throwing a glass.

Tootletum · 27/08/2020 13:10

Make him leave immediately and change the locks. Assuming he has no claim to the house make sure he can't get back in. He's a fucking psycho. Get a sperm donor.

exPR · 27/08/2020 13:21

@Zaphodsotherhead You have to wonder what their own back stories are when they are so clear that women are not allowed to express any emotion or frustration without being called abusive and men who abuse are the victims.

Heffalooomia · 27/08/2020 13:27

He confessed that he had had a vasectomy
How vile of him to exploit her like that ☹️
But why would such a vile person admit it 👀
I think it's because he didn't want to look inferior compared to the other man who did impregnate her, so he had to let her know that actually he could have impregnated her, he just didn't want to
What a vile man ☹️

JeremyBeremy · 27/08/2020 13:31

I've read all your posts OP, I haven't read the floods of others but I just wanted to say please make sure he leaves your house ASAP. Don't let him hang around there thinking about how to manipulate you next. Let him understand the reality of the relationship being over. And please, I know it will be difficult but don't fall for any other attempts of his to tell you that he does want kids. He doesn't. He's going to slowly destroy you if you let him. Get back in your house, pick yourself up and move on. If at all possible, block him from your life.

And no, throwing a glass while somebody is upstairs and then cleaning up the pieces is not abusive. It would be abusive if you said 'see what you made me do?'. Or if you knew that he would be afraid to hear it for some reason. It's rubbish to suggest that a destructive action is abusive by nature.

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