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Bobbins · 16/09/2002 20:22
OK, as many of you will know, my partner and I are going through very difficult times at the moment. I feel like he just can't face these problems and prefers to stay out night after night. Sometimes I wonder what I ever saw in him. How could I have had a child with such a man. The problems started from when I was first pregnant really. I obviously had to give up a large part of my social life, but my partner saw no reason why he should. I have tried to negotiate compromises...eg; you can go out whenever you want, just don't come back really drunk, and let me know when you will be home. If I know what's going to happen, then I can make alternative arrangements.
Now though, it seems that we do not have any kind of a life together. The only time we spend together is tense.
The sad thing is, Ireally feel like I need him now. When I try to talk about these problems calmly he acts like I'm taking the p*, or like a social worker. If I get angry he thinks I'm acting like I'm in the right, little miss perfect..... blah de blah. I've never claimed to be perfect. I think when you have children (lose children) there is and inevitability that you are going to change. I would like to go out with him, and come home before the daylight. This seems impossible at the moment. I wish I was able to say that this relationship is doing me no favours, and get out, but I've been through so much upheaval recently I don't feel strong enough. BUT, being with him is making me constantly anxious, not least because I worry about him, his health, his finances, his well being.
Rhubarb · 16/09/2002 21:00
I wish I had some words of advice for you Bobbins. Is your dp going through some sort of breakdown perhaps? His visits to the pub sound like escapism, does he drink a lot? I don't suppose he would see anyone at your insistence, but would he listen to a friend? Can you perhaps get in touch with one of his friends and explain your concerns to them? A friendly word of advice from a friend often means more to them than their own partner at times. He may feel that you are coping fine on your own and that you don't need him, which in turn may be depressing him. I don't know what else to say really, apart from I hope things turn around soon. Keep talking to him, even when he isn't listening, don't stop talking to him. Tell him in a non-confrontational way how his actions are hurting you, start by saying "When you do this, I feel like this" but try to stop yourself from pinning the blame on him. Likewise ask him how he feels, what can you do to make things better too?
Bobbins · 16/09/2002 21:14
Good advice Rhubarb. I always try to ask questions in this way, but often it gets overheated, and just those few introductory words ar helpful to remember. I did something today that also relates to your advice. I e-mailed a woman that he works with closely, the address of the bereavement thread, and then had loads of concerns that I had done the wrong thing. I have said to her that if she wants to ignore it,and not get involved in any way then please do. Now I'm thinking that it might look like emotional blackmail though. What to do?
To put things in context: He's still out, since Saturday night. I'vesince found out that he went up to London with two of my friends(?)as well. I didn't know this. Nobody can stop him going out, but they could have some empathy I think, and see that this excess may well not be good for him at the moment (or me) I'm worried.
Rhubarb · 16/09/2002 21:37
Your friends may not be hearing the whole story from him Bobbins so I wouldn't blame them. I do think it is a good idea to let your friends in on what is going on so they can keep an eye on him for you and let you know where he is and what he is doing, since he isn't telling you himself. I'm sure this woman will be empathetic with you, who wouldn't be? He may well need to get away from it all for a while, do a lot of thinking and so on, he may not be thinking straight, but that doesn't excuse his actions though. Perhaps you could do with going away too? Could you go away for a weekend/week either with or without your children? (sorry, I don't know how many you have, I've a feeling you have a little boy do you?) You need to focus on yourself for a while, it looks like he is doing fine at the minute, so stop worrying about him and start worrying about you. It may give him a thrill to know you are at home worrying, it makes him feel needed, loved, wanted. You doing something for yourself for a change may bring him back to his senses. Let him find you for a change! Hope some (any) of this helps.
Jasper · 16/09/2002 22:04
Bobbins, I may be way off line here but I have been following your situation and like others here felt so sad at the loss of Harvey and then annoyed on your behalf at what seems like gross thoughtless/selfish behaviour on the part of your dh.
I have been wondering if maybe he wants out the relationship but feels very guilty about this (because of what you have been through together with Harvey's death)and so is acting very badly so YOU will end the realtionship. In other words so he can get out without feeing even more guilty.(people would think he was a right ba**d if he left you so he acts badly so you'll get fed up and leave him)
I thought long and hard before posting this;
I realise I may have totally misread the situation but as a concerned onlooker thought I would say what was on my mind.
Of course there is a fair chance you may have wondered this yourself and approached him to ask if this is the case.
Really, disappearing without warning for a few days is not on in any relationship, but is particularly not on considering what you have been through.
tigermoth · 16/09/2002 22:11
Talking of letting your friends in on what is going on, is there one friend amongst this crowd your partner hangs out with that you especially trust?
If so, can you arrange to see them and talk about your concerns (without getting so emotional that they get frightened away, and boy would I feel emotional if I were you, so I can imagine how hard this will be). Ask them them what is going on with your partner. I cannot believe that your friends think you are being treated fairly at the moment, just by the number and length of times your partner is away.
From what you say, your partner simply won't communicate with you despite all your efforts, and you sound a very eloquent person. Keep on trying to get through, but, for what it's worth, I would look elswhere for answers. I would also consider turning up by surprise one evening. This should give you a good feel for what is going on and the group he is spending his time with. This man is your partner - he should want your company whether expected or unexpected. You said somewhere else that he invites you along to these evenings - why not say you hope to but you can't be sure, leave it open, turn up and see his reaction?
Don't know if this helps at all but good luck.
Bobbins · 17/09/2002 00:10
Jasper> I think he very well want out, and I think I do too. Its just so difficult to summon up courage at the moment. Apart from the fact that I've had enough upheaval there is also the joint mortgage/belongings/pain. The longer I put up with this though, the more my confidence is eroded.
tigermoth> amongst this crowd I hold out little hope. Throughout my pregnancy, rearing baby/losing baby, they have gradually become more and more his friends. The two WOMEN(!) that he left to go to London with on Saturday night are perfectly aware of our situation. So much for female solidarity. But this bunch are complete hedonists. I know that he is still with one of them at the moment, and has been in the pub with her dad all afternoon. I left a message on her mobile earlier and she phoned back. She didn't know I hadn't been told they were accompanying him to London. I said that I wouldn't have come anyway. My Mum died three months ago, and my son five months ago. I asked her if they talked about the situation at all...she said yes...and that he'd said he just wanted to go out and have fun. they were even pissd off because the friends he'd gone to meet had "wussed out on going clubbing", so they met other people. I have asked if he's shagging her (wouldn't you?) the reply was..."don't be stupid". What am I meant to think. He's just called my mobile. i didn't answer it, they left an inadvertant message, sounded all very relaxed...no need to rush home. PAH
I've locked the door. I've been on the phone to my real friends and the consensus seems to be that I would be WELL RID!!! Its hard when you do still care and need.
I think if I still had my baby boy I would have already been more forceful in a decision to GET OUT. This kind of thing knocks you so hard though. 31, rotund post baby belly, saggy boobs, and the desperate yearning for my little baby back. How to start all over again?
Eloquence is all well and good...but....
Bobbins · 17/09/2002 01:08
Not OK obviously. I can't believe this is happening. I've just left a note for the morning (after so many letters) Saying....
"I was the mother of your child. I can't believe you are treating me so badly."
Not that this usually makes a difference!
Thanks for your concern scuba
Scuba · 17/09/2002 01:30
Bobbin sorry I can't do much but do you need to get some rest? Don't stay up all night you'll only feel worse if you're tired - is there anyone you can talk to tomorrow? If talking isn't working at the moment would writing things down make any difference. I've found writing things down for myself sometimes made me see things a bit more clearly and then help me make decisions or actions. Once you've done that may be you could try writing what you want to ask him - I don't know if he'll respond but would it be worth a try? Please find someone to talk to. I'll be around for another 10 minutes if you want to talk
LiamsMum · 17/09/2002 01:36
Bobbins was he like this before you lost your baby? I'm wondering if perhaps he just can't handle the situation - the loss, the pain, having to help you to deal with it. It's quite pathetic but some men seem to be like this, they just run away from the situation. If you are having a lot of trouble coping with him right now (I know I would be), perhaps even a temporary separation would help. It might shock him into realising what's happening, but if not, then he's not worth the trouble. If he has any desire to hold on to the relationship then he needs to make a decision to start acting properly. Sorry to not be much help but I really feel for you, my dh was quite horrible to me when I was pregnant too. He was fine after ds came along but I think this was due to the fact that my parents have helped us out SO much and this has taken a lot of the burden off him. Men don't handle responsibility very well at all sometimes. Best wishes Bobbins, hope it all turns out ok.
SueDonim · 17/09/2002 02:27
Bobbins, I think you're a saint for putting up with so much. And I think you really do need more support to get through this, either one way or another. Would the bereavement support groups mentioned be of any help in dealing with this? Although your DP's behaviour sounds extreme, they might have some coping strategies for you or just be there to help you come to a decision. Thinking of you.
bayleaf · 17/09/2002 10:31
Bobbins - I can't belive what an awful time you have had - Some of the horror stories I've read on here have made me swant to weep - but yours is just mind blowingly awful. I'm seriously amazed that you haven't had some sort of breakdown yourself.
I really feel that you need to get away from dp for a while and look after yourself. He is tearing you apart with his utterly selfish behaviour and your mature attempts to communicate with him and try to help the two of you get through this nightmare together just seem to be falling on completely deaf ears. Whether he actually wants out himself as Jasper suggests or whether he is having some sort of breakdown which is manifesting itself in his bizarre and hurtful beaviour - either way, sticking around at the moment is just hurting you. If there is a way forward for you both together then maybe leaving will shock him into realising it - and if not - then you will not start to heal whilst dealing with him on a daily baisis.
I find it hard to believe that someone who loves you could behave in as selfish a way as he has given what you have been through - but he has. Leave him to it - put yourself first.
tigermoth · 17/09/2002 12:55
bobbins, didn't you say on the bereavement thread that you had moved in with your father for a month, then moved back home. Your partner's reaction to this ( did he miss you, did he welcome you back) will surely help you make a decision now?
As others say, I think you need all the support you can get - friends (real ones, not the ones who go clubbing with him) and bereavement councillors.
And if you make that scary move and ask him to leave for the moment, remember ( as I'msure you will) that it does not have to mean the end of your relationship - space apart might help it recover. Keeping that at the back of your mind might make an upheaval easier - any chance of you both agreeing on regular contact if he leaves? With no pressure on him you might find he becomes a much nicer person to you and you can slowly pick up the pieces. I'm trying to be optimistic - years ago something like this happened to me.
But breakdown or not, he is being so awful to you. IMO You've got to think of yourself now.
Bobbins · 17/09/2002 13:25
Thanks all of you!
tigermoth> when I moved out before it was just for a week, he was off to Jersey for a few days at the end of that week, soI decided to make the most of the house and go back whilst he was away. Then I thought about it and came to the conclusion that I spend far more time than him in the house, so why should I be so inconvenieced and uprooted when I'm not the one jeaprodising the whole relationship. So I stayed and asked him to move out, he said he had nowhere to go. I asked why he couldn't stay with one of the friends he spends all his nights out with. He said there was no way (really good mates then aren't they!)
He's not going to budge I don't think. I left him another note this morning saying that if he wants out of the relationship, he should get some guts and do something about it. Perhaps it will end up that I have to make the move for my own sanity!
Batters · 17/09/2002 13:26
This reply has been deleted
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Rhubarb · 17/09/2002 15:08
Bobbins whereabouts are you if you don't mind my asking? Only if you are anywhere near me I would really like to come and visit, just to cheer you up a bit and give you a bit of company. Tell me to bog off though if you want!!!
Instead of leaving short notes, why not, when you are feeling a bit calmer, write him a long letter. In it write down everything you felt when your baby died, every emotion you had, then tell him what you are feeling right now. Then tell him that you would quite like to know how he felt when your baby died, what emotions he had, and how he is feeling right now. At the end you can put "this is what I want for the future..." and then say that you would like to sit and talk to him about what he would like for the future. Ask if he can make a date where the two of you can go out to the pub together, and discuss what happens next. If he doesn't answer this letter then he is a complete b***d, but I'm guessing that he will. I don't think for one minute that he has dealt with his grief properly, and I hate to say this, but he may be avoiding you because you remind him of the baby he lost. He seriously needs help and it's a shame his friends are such losers themselves.
Anyway, that's what I would do now. He needs to sort his grief out before he can make any decisions about the future. Personally I would also bollock his so-called friends and tell them in no uncertain terms to stay away from him unless they are prepared to do the decent thing and help him. Ask them if they will still be there when he eventually drinks himself into oblivion.
If you ask Mumsnet I am sure they will give you my email, if you'd like to talk more. I'm not sure how I can help or even if you would want me to, but the option is there for you. I'll be thinking of you. xx
Bobbins · 17/09/2002 16:05
Rhubarb> I'm in lovely Reading(?) Probably nowhere near you? If you are far away thanks anyway Rhubarb, thats a really nice thought. Maybe I'll make it to a meet up one day.
I am going to write another letter along those lines. I wrote a long (sad)one on Friday night, and he left a short note back in the morning saying he was sorry he was upsetting me and all this is happening, but it just seems to be...(Yes, he's making it) He also wrote that we'd talk later, did we heck? That's when he went off to London. He has said he doesn't like letters, (after one that I sent that was quite angry and accusatory)because he couldn't answer back.
I think I need write a letter like the one you suggest though, I think it would be therapeutic for me even if it achieves nothing with him.
This is all good advice here I agree batters, sometimes its so hard to see the wood for the trees.
Re. the other so called friends, I think the main problem is that none of this bunch have ever really known any responsibility, all single, no house etc etc. On a good note, one of my real friends(with a 16 month old), has just phoned to ask me to her housewarming on Saturday, and lots of my other real friends will be there. Splendid
Scuba · 17/09/2002 16:59
Bobbins was worried about you last night. I know everything's not resolved itself but glad to read you're sounding a little more positive. Do write about how you feel - sometimes seeing what yoou're thinking and feeling especially when you feel emotional can have a carthetic effect. It's probably going to be very difficult but if you're not getting any response from him you need to start thinking about what's best for yourself. I'm probably very limited help but will be on line later if you want to talk.
sobernow · 17/09/2002 19:11
This reply has been deleted
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Bobbins · 17/09/2002 19:26
Well. it looks like there is no respect at all. He came home and he wanted to talk about getting the house valued. He says he just wants to have fun. We run round and round in circles. his last words directed angrily towards me were that "I'm always in the right...make sure I come out winning. I've never done anything wrong." ....sarcastically. When I ask him what he thinks I have done wrong...the only justification he can seem to come up with is that I did the staying out all weekend/partying before I was pregnant.
This is so frustrating. It feels like he hates me. He will not move out even fo a little while, he says once we have sorted things he'll find somewhere else. I really don't know what I have done to deserve this. I have wracked my brains. I think he thinks I'm trying to get everyone on his side. All I've done is tell people what is happening. I wish we could save the relationship, but it would take effort on his part, and he has none to give.
I've told him that sorting it out might take months and I can't take being around him when he'sso insensitive. The only thing I can think of doing is moving to my Dad's. I feel like a failure. thats not where I want to be. But this is doing me no favours.
We have talked about me buying him out. I don't know how the hell I could afford this. I can't believe this is happening, or that this is the man I fell in love with???!!!
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