"But we took you to Stately Homes" January 2020 onwards

[toomuchtooold]

It's January 2020, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018-May 2019
May-August 2019
August-October 2019
November-December 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

A bit off topic but I'm watching Mrs Lowry & Son on Netflix - has anyone seen it?

It's probably the most accurate portrayal of a covert narcissist I've ever seen. I expect the film-makers just thought the mother was a bit of an eccentric but I'm pretty sure we would all see it in a completely different way.

I started watching it Yellow but the Spectre of this man being dominated by his elderly mother freaked me out too much😲
Will try watching some more of it tomorrow because it really looks like a good film so thanks for the recommendation 😊

It's a bit of a hard watch, but almost every one of her behaviours has been described by somebody on this thread at some point.

Belated Happy New Year everyone; I always struggle with the first week of 'normal' life in January, so had my head under the covers really!

Christmas and New Year were really lovely; focused on relaxing, enjoying time with the 2 of our 3 adult children who are at home, and the bliss of not having to deal with my parents/sister.

I was in Germany for a friend's funeral the weekend before Christmas, so didn't have time to do the Christmas cards before Christmas - they've just been sent out as New Year cards instead. My dh picked me up from the airport on the Sunday night and said there was a gift from my sister to us both and a card from my parents ignoring the low contact all year and mentioning a family get together at their house on Boxing Day and 'it would be lovely to see you'. Thanks to the wise advice on this thread, the gift box (food) was passed on to friends and the card went in the bin with no response.

Fast forward to last Thursday evening and I was dozing in our room when the doorbell rang. Dh answered, to find my father on the doorstep, who thrust a gift bag at him, said 'We didn't want to post the presents because the last lot were returned as undeliverable', turned round and walked off to the car parked further up the road'! A gift each for the children and a box of chocolates for us - which have gone to work with dh for the rest of the office! Utterly bizarre and no idea what he meant by gifts being returned as undeliverable. Again, I'm not responding - not my circus and not my monkeys.

@Dippydog wishing you strength for the year ahead

Sorry for everyone else who is struggling - this thread is a great place to come for understanding and support.

Bloody German Netflix doesn't have Mrs Lowry

My "favourite" chillingly accurate depiction of a narcissist is Tangled. I have to watch it through my fingers.

Happy new year penelope! I think your policy of no curiosity over their addled pronouncements is an excellent one. Do not tangle with the batshit.

PenelopeCleary, thank you so much for your best wishes. I feel as if I am doing really well.

It was interesting to hear about the behaviour of your parents and sister. Your response was spot on! Coincidentally, my father has phoned twice today, letting it ring for ages each time. We have been no contact for eight years, and he has started phoning again since my husband died. I had already said to my son that I expected he would call today, because mother is out on Thursday. As many wise people here have said, they are just so predictable. I feel strong enough to talk to him, but I don't see the point.

I will definitely look out for your film recommendation, yellowlemon. Thank you!

We didn't want to post the presents because the last lot were returned as undeliverable
Penelope, methinks he invented the undeliverable thing, he felt he needed a justification for ambushing you, so he created one out of thin air.
An ambush, ain't that just what you want at Christmas! :(

he has started phoning again since my husband died
Dippy, I s'pose If asked he would say it's to offer support, but you know it's because he thinks you will be weakened and therefore vulnerable to his invasion:(

@Ulterego Absolutely SPOT ON!!!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻😘

You are so right

Broken, I was also victim of a paedophile as a small child....my parents didn't want to know
It crushes you:(
How are you doing?

@Ulterego I'm broken!

Apparently I'm disgusting & vile!

"Well he's dead now, you could say anything about him...."

@Broken2020

Your mother cannot face the information you are presenting her with as it doesn’t fit in with her view of the world. She doesn’t have any empathy so she can’t imagine how you’re feeling, she only knows what she feels.

You cannot take her views as reasonable or important because they are not. Please talk to someone who values you and can help you. Please think about yourself.

I’d just like to join in with everyone saying that what makes the difference is being aware of not being perfect and trying to be better. My parents just deny anything is wrong or use manipulation or fear or blaming someone else to make it not their fault. Now I can see how flagrantly my mum distorts facts and have had my dad telling me that things I said happened, which have severely affected me, never happened. It’s heartbreaking. But what matters is that you’re trying your hardest, nobody is a perfect parent (or friend, or anything). It’s so brace to face up to it.

I’m a big Harry Potter fan and the last few times my mum has messaged me or said awful things to my relatives about me or done spiteful things, I think about what Harry says to Voldemort in the fifth film: “you’re the weak one, and you’ll never know love. I feel sorry for you.” It’s a bit corny but I tell myself that every so often, and remind myself that I have known love. I’m not brilliant, I’m dreadful sometimes, but I have some great friends and have had two lovely boyfriends and it hasn’t been because I’ve manipulated them or scared or guilted them.

My latest message from my mum repeatedly drags in the fight she’s having with my dad, despite me having said repeatedly that that’s the reason I don’t want to hear from her. She also says she bought me Christmas presents before Christmas (I got her one and a card, whereas she sent a card to me and my dad with just our names in it, saw my dad on Christmas Eve and chucked him out of her house, she could have given the gifts to him to take back then but didn’t). She says she will take them to Oxfam in two weeks if I don’t write back giving her an address to post them to. Again, she could easily get my address from my grandmother or leave them with her or at my dad’s house. I think I’m going to reply saying her choices and her behaviour are her responsibility. It feels like a sad thing for a mother to do to her daughter, but it would probably work with my sister who is much more financially motivated! There was a lot more in the message but it was long, and I’m tired! Thinking of you all x

Brave, not brace, obviously!

You cannot take her views as reasonable or important because they are not. Please talk to someone who values you and can help you. Please think about yourself.

Just want to echo this advice broken, please do talk to someone. Your mother's reactions are down to her issues, and are not your fault.

Thanks for all the comments on the last thread. To recap - I've finally braved the LC/NC route with my parents since realising how manipulative and downright narcissistic my DM has been my whole life and my DF, her unwitting, helpless enabler. The final straw has been that since my DD was born, it's all stepped up a bit and I've become the ultimate scapegoat (ignored, mocked etc) whilst they both play the new role of loving, expert grandparents to their first grandchild.

So as predicted by some of you on the last thread, I'm now getting cryptic/grovelling messages from DF and this evening has texted me basically grovelling for me to bring DD to see them and how DM who has been crying non stop (read temper tantrum) since I clearly stopped playing their game. DH and I even went round on one day over Christmas and basically got ignored by DM whilst she performed her best grandma act. We're also putting DD into nursery instead of with them which has obviously not gone down well. Note that none of this is coming directly from DM, she hasn't called, texted or even spoken to me face to face when I've seen her for months!

There is so much more detail I could go into but my question is what do I do now: do I just ignore it and carry on or do I text my DF back to explain how I've been so hurt by the ignoring, not being welcome etc etc?? I am tempted to do the latter but know that the former is the way to go to preserve my own sanity.

Any thoughts and wise words most welcome. I am still in the haze around all this, I am so stressed but keeping it all at bay at the moment as I have so much other daily life stuff to deal with.

Well done @Rabbitcat for gathering your courage and putting your boundaries in place.

By explaining your reasons you will give them an opening for engaging with you, and ammunition to hurt you even more than they already are. You don’t owe them an explanation. If you want to attempt to close them down you could send a message saying you’re not intending to be in touch with them at the moment abd you won’t be contacting them in the foreseeable future.

It’s a statement of fact but it gives no ultimatums or finality. When they contact you again you can just restate it - ‘I’ve said I’m not contacting you at the moment, yet you’re continuing to contact me, which shows you have no respect for me or my wishes’ but don’t get into a dialogue about it.

Keep it short and unemotional, don’t respond to drama or accusations. All kinds of things will be said to you, you’re ungrateful, you’re being manipulated by someone else, you’re not respectful, they’re the victims etc. Tell them you understand they’re not happy but nevertheless right now NC is what’s happening. Then end the conversation.

It gets surprisingly simple if you don’t allow them to manipulate you, and you don’t try to appease them. It’s all very new and scary, I know.

Good luck.

Hello, this is my first time posting on this thread. A little while ago I made a post about my mum and someone mentioned this thread so I thought i'd post, as I've been thinking about my childhood a lot lately.

I never really thought of my mum as an abuser until now. She isn't an abuser in the "traditional" sense though. My whole life I saw her as a victim rather than a perpetrator of abuse, but now I think she is both.

I believe she is an abuser in the sense that she never put her children first. She was afraid of being a single parent. So she went from a relationship with my abusive father, to a relationship with another abusive man, whom she got pregnant to on a one night stand.
Her relationship with my father only ended when he went to jail for robbery and assaulting someone else, a man I believe. From that point on my dad was in and out of jail and not a part of our lives anymore. I've seen him three since then (out of jail, we saw him about twice in jail), I was 10 when he went to jail the first time.

My dad abused my mum when he was drunk, physically and verbally. He was also financially abusive in the fact that he would gamble all his money away and my mum had to ask charities for food for us kids at times. My mum was on benefits. One of my early memories of my parents is seeing my dad chase my mum around the house with a large kitchen knife. I ran outside and hid behind a bush because I really thought he was going to kill her. I'm their oldest child, I also had 3 younger siblings.

Both of my parents smoked weed. My mum still smokes it till this day, she always has. She says she uses it to help with her depression and anxiety.

So after my dad went to jail my mum started looking for a new boyfriend, I remember two of them, they didn't like kids and my mum had 4 so they didn't work out. Then she had a one night stand with a man that ended up with her getting pregnant. She then decided to move us all in with this man. I hardly knew him. I don't remember liking him and he turned into an abusive ass as soon as we were all living under the same roof.

Also before we moved one of my sisters caught head lice from school in 2001 and ever since we all had head lice... We never got rid of it, we tried but obviously not enough. I only managed to get rid of mine for good once I moved out 2 years ago but I get them again when I visit my mum and my younger siblings. I started keeping my hair short when I still lived their just so it was easier for me to manage my hair. My mum loved long hair and always had very long hair, she didn't like me cutting my hair short but stopped doing anything about the head lice. My sisters had long hair too. My brother had his head shaved a lot...

I have 4 sisters and 1 brother. My mum had 2 daughters to her abusive now ex partner.
I'm now going to copy and paste some stuff from my other thread.

"So I'm just going to put a few things in dot points.

*My mum and siblings have head lice and have had them for years. I have to treat our hair whenever we get back from seeing them.
*My youngest sister is a brat and treats my mum like her personal slave.
*My other half sister is tolerable but also can be abusive to my mum
*My brother smokes weed all day and always has his weed smoking friends at my mums house, he's 20. His friends are always there to the point they just let themselves in. MY mum won't tell them to leave, neither will he. They are both doormats in this situation, sometimes it is so bad they eat all the food.
*My sister who was born after me and myself are the only ones that treat my mum with any respect. This sister is also in an abusive relationship with her partner and they have two kids together. I fear she is following my mums footsteps,
*My mum is a doormat that lets everyone walk all over. She tries to make everyone happy but only ends up making everyone miserable. Then she wonders why.
*MY mum ends up looking after my brothers 2 year old instead of him when she stays with them because he's too busy with his friends."

Regarding her ex partner whom she was with for over 10 years:

"He is on ice and I know he's on it because he has been for years. He's only nice when on ice or smoking weed. When he's not on drugs he's very aggressive. The background is that my mum got pregnant to him straight away when I was 10, then we moved in with him and he was an abusive asshole. He was never nice to me or my siblings, always yelling at us or ignoring us. He emotionally, financially and mentally abused my mum. He sometimes physically abused her too. My mum already had 4 kids when she met him. My dad was out of the picture because he was in jail. My mum has smoked weed for as long as I can remember because of her depression and anxiety issues. I just hate his guts. There is a lot of bad things that happened in the past and everyone in my family just wants to pretend like it never happened which annoys me. So I look like I'm being over the top... maybe I should just get over it.. but I don't want toxic people like that in my life."

"It is true that I feel she chose him over me. She always has. There was a time that her ex brought a prostitute to our house late at night while we were all sleeping and fucked her in my mums bed. My mum was sleeping with my little sisters in the next room. I woke up to yelling and screaming and ran up to stairs to find my mum yelling at him and telling him to get out while he was naked. One of my sisters was yelling at him to and he grabbed her tank top and broke the strap exposing her breast....
Anyway, after that the police came, took him away for the night. The next day our grandmother and her husband came and helped us pack all our stuff and move... we moved, spent time in a refgue and temporray house. All for us just to end up living with him once again. i think this is the main thing I can't get over. how she made us move 2 hours away from everything we knew to get away from him just to end up living with him again. just somewhere else..."

"her ex is also addicted to porn and prostitutes. my little sisters saw porn that he downloaded on his laptop while they were using it to watch movies. i have walked in on him masturbating before when he lived with us.."

I called my youngest sister not a very nice thing in the original thread, which I now feel bad about and realise that she was also abused. But if anyone is wondering why, here is why:

"I'm sorry if I have offended anyone. I speak the way I do about my youngest half sister because she makes my mums life a living hell and everyone in my family dislikes her. She makes my mum miserable by treating her like shit and like a slave. If my mum doesn't do what she wants she will go to great lengths to make her do it, stealing her phone or handbag... using physical force. She is 13 now and is bigger than my mum, taller and bulkier because she plays football. Honestly I'm scared she will kill my mum one day, either physically or from all the stress she causes her. She is an out of control brat. She makes my mum suicidal but there is nothing any of us can do. It breaks my heart to be honest.... I know my mum has done and tried her best in her circumstances and with 6 children while living off of benefits. I do feel bad for her but also feel she doesn't do anything to help herself.

My sisters dad won't take her either. He knows what she is like and doesn't do anything about it. He isn't a good dad, I'm not jealous. He used to beat the crap out of them when they were younger. He has never hit me but there are times I thought he would. He only hits his own kids. Though he did hit my brother when he was younger but my brother is taller than him now."

My whole family dynamic is just very dysfunctional. And as a result. I'm not a very functional adult. I am autistic. I have depression and social anxiety. I don't work, I have a fear of working that I need to get over. I now live with my partner and his parents with our 2 year old. I feel a lot happier being away from my family but obviously my partners family comes with their own baggage but I am grateful to them for taking me in. It's the only way I got away from my family.

All us kids a messed up. I can't remember if I mentioned it already but my siblings that share the same father as me, they all grew up doing drugs and drinking under age. There was even a point when my 2 sisters would sit around smoking weed with my mum, they'd all talk and stuff like they were friends hanging out and honestly it made me feel left out. I didn't want to do drugs or smell it though so I stayed away. I didn't turn to drugs, I turned to video games instead to escape...
Currently it is now my brother that hangs out and smokes weed with my mum and his friends. I don't like visiting anymore because they are always there and i don't want my son exposed to it.

I know this post is all over that place. I might come back and add more but just had to get some stuff out I guess.

Rabbitcat

re this part of your comment re your NPD mother and her willing enabler, this being your dad:-

"There is so much more detail I could go into but my question is what do I do now: do I just ignore it and carry on or do I text my DF back to explain how I've been so hurt by the ignoring, not being welcome etc etc?? I am tempted to do the latter but know that the former is the way to go to preserve my own sanity"

Do not text your dad; radio silence from you should be maintained. Any communication no matter how blandly worded will be used against you here. Women like your mother cannot do relationships so they always but always need a willing enabler to help them. This person here is your dad and he has failed you too. He will continue to enable his wife as he has done, he is really your secondary abuser here as well as a weak bystander of a man.

It is also not possible to have any sort of a relationship with a narcissist.

Whatisnormalhere

Glad you found this thread.

All of your family of origin are dysfunctional and there is no reason to maintain any sort of contact with any of them. You are right not to have such toxic people in your life.

Concentrate your efforts going forward on your own self; what support if any are you getting re your depression and anxiety (likely stemming as well from your own traumatic childhood as well as ASD).

Whatisnormal, as Attilla says your family of origin are very dysfunctional also extremely complex there's so much going on with lots of different people.
none of this is your fault, you have had to struggle to survive in an extremely unfavorable environment, children deserve and need stability and a loving supportive nurturing environment, you were thrown into a situation that was the complete opposite, well done for surviving you must be strong.
I think the best way forward may be to step completely away, there's nothing you can do to help any of them except by setting a good example of stepping away from the dysfunction and working on yourself.

Your username @Whatisnormalhere is interesting, I think now is a good time for deciding what your normal is by setting boundaries. It’s not about judging other people’s choices, but about how other people’s choices are affecting you and your life. There’s no reason to accept damaging behaviour from anyone, you can remove yourself from harm if you choose.

Hi all,

I've been a long time lurker of this thread and never felt brave enough to comment. Just to say too, you are all incredible people.

I lived in an environment that was very physical, punches to our faces , hit with slippers and belts etc from our parents. My husband cannot believe a childhood could be like this.

When I was 5 I found my mum had taken an overdose on the living room floor. I ran to my neighbours who came over called an ambulance etc mum then always used to throw in my face that I stopped her from doing it.

There were lots of men in and out of my mums life, one time she sent me to wales with one and I was sexually abused aged 7..... it all went to court and he was imprisoned and I was awarded some money (in the thousands) anyway, I asked my mum for it at 18 and she had spent every penny! I still can't comprehend this, and again my husband can't either.

When I was 11, a guy came up to me in the local shop and told me he was my dad . Naturally asked mum and it turned out that the person who I called dad (also the father of my brother and sister) wasn't my dad and it was all a lie.

Anyway, I did ok at school and met my now husband and have moved away. At dinners / Christmas etc I really struggle to talk to her or know what to say and it's really awkward .

I've recently started therapy as I have just had a baby and really don't want to be an angry / messed up mother and want to be there for my daughter.

Thanks for listening to me and thank you for this wonderful thread x

Thank you @AttilaTheMeerkat and @Herocomplex. So much of what you say makes sense to me and I'm so grateful for your replies. Yes definitely I see that anything I say in response will be used as fuel for their (DM, DF and toxic Dsis) rantings/temper tantrums so I have not replied to the text message at all.

I didn't really give the details in my last post, but the essence of DF's text message was basically saying that DM has been crying everyday since she "only said one thing" about not liking me or DH asking them any questions about our DD's day when we picked her up; that me and DH re petty; that DM feels sorry for DD that she will now go to nursery (instead of being with them - a direct result of us being told we shouldn't ask about DD's day). DF's suggestion was that I take DD over to theirs to let them play with her and for me to say sorry to DM so she isn't upset anymore. Also included instructions to delete the text after reading. Obviously no insight at all about how selfish/disrespectful they are to me and DH; how my DM has blankly ignored me and DH for months, doesn't respond to my texts/groupchat messages; didn't say happy birthday (2 years running now).

So am I right in thinking setting my boundaries is absolutely the right thing to do now and just going NC will save my sanity? I feel I've done nothing wrong and have gone out of my way actually to hold my tongue so much and in the past (before DD was born) tried so hard to please them. They seem so self absorbed, not loving parents at all, despite their efforts to convince themselves that they are the best parents and grandparents. Sorry for rambling. Underneath my resolve and knowing going NC makes sense, I am hurting a lot and wish I didn't have to deal with this, even though I'm glad that I can see things very clearly now. I see how my DH's family are and whilst they aren't particularly close, I could not ever imagine any of them acting in the way my parents do.

Rabbitcat that text from your DF is a textbook example of enabling. He’s basically saying you need to accept the treatment your DM is dealing out, because if you don’t he’ll get it. He’s so afraid of upsetting her he wants you to delete the evidence!

They’re using your DD to manipulate you, playing at happy families. Follow Attila’s advice. Just block them, and don’t read any texts.

Please look at the Out of The Fog website if you haven’t already. It will make their behaviour and your choices very clear.