"But we took you to Stately Homes" January 2020 onwards

[toomuchtooold]

It's January 2020, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018-May 2019
May-August 2019
August-October 2019
November-December 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I know you’re right @Ulterego.

I know you’re right
It's still a very hard thing to deal with so go easy on yourself but keep your sights on what's best for you in the long term, you deserve a peaceful life where you can heal from childhood damage and trauma

Thank you❤️

Just wanted to mention a really helpful book if you’re struggling with memories, intrusive thoughts and keeping regulated. I re-read ‘The Body Keeps The Score’ by Bessel Van Der Kolk over the last few days and got a lot from it about why I feel like I do at times and what I can do about it.

I was thinking about some of you spending a lot of time with your children and how being reminded of times when you didn’t feel safe or protected might be coming up for you.

I recently read “Why Does He Do That” which was very helpful in explaining all my mother’s actions (with obvious exceptions and clearly despite the fact that he insists it’s mainly men who abuse). The one thing that bothers me is that when people describe abusive or narcissistic behaviours i can say yes, I know exactly that, and I know my triggers and what upsets me, but when I think back everything is a blur. If someone asked me what exactly went wrong with my family I wouldn’t be able to answer. Does anyone else have this?

Yes, @ceciledevolanges, I have this issue when trying to describe my abusive xh's behaviour. Like it can't be pinned down.

that's their modus operandi though isn't!
it the refusal to be pinned down, the making like a herd of cats, the 'try and pin me to the wall as if I'm jelly' kind of person🙄
I think some of the time of the behaviour is instinctive, they'll don't have enough insight to work out what their deeper motivations are
and of course there is the fact that at the time you couldn't see through them (not like you can now) and so you went along with it because you didn't see any other options

Funnily enough that’s one of the things that gets dealt with in the book I recommended. He talks about people who were hospitalised due to abuse injuries who don’t remember the event at all. We unconsciously deal with things that are unacceptable to us by locking them away, but are often left with behaviours that give away the damage.

As you may remember, I sent a message to my parents just after the beginning of lockdown, kind of a testing the water toe dip which resulted in a confirmation of doing the right thing re NC even though it was hard at the time.

I am glad I did that, as father contacted me today to say grandmother had passed away. She lived to a very good age and I had a weep that my plans to see her had been scuppered by coronavirus locking down care homes to visitors. I haven't seen her for some time as she was being ferociously 'guarded' by mother and my sister and didn't want to risk bumping into them.

I am sad that the nature of being NC with my parents means attendance at the funeral would be impossible, I would be accused of only coming out of the woodwork for the will and son on. So in this instance, I am also grateful that covid-19 rules prevent me, as grandchild, from attending. I have checked and our local crem is only permitting immediate family. Which would be my parents and father's siblings in this case. Possibly their spouses too given mother would be there. Mother has POA but I don't think even she would dare cause a fuss. Of course, I fully expect there to be comments about them coming out of the woodwork now she has gone as Father's siblings are similarly persona non grata since as long as I can remember (and I wonder why it took me so long to see if. The innocence of childhood).

I have asked father to let me know burial details so I can pay my own respects.

I’m sorry to hear about your grandmother passing away minisoks and that you didn’t get a chance to see her recently. Like you say, due to the CV crisis, it’s good that you have a valid excuse not to attend the funeral which can’t be used against you. You can pay your respects in private, in your own way, without it being turned into a drama. Still, it must be a tough time.

I’m so sorry for the loss of your grandmother Minisoks. This is such a difficult time for everyone and you’re one of the unlucky ones on top of it. It’s just so hard, I’m so sorry.

Hi.
I’ve been directed here from a thread I wrote. I don’t really know what to say to start.

Hi @Blutterflies, how are you? Welcome.

Butterflies, there’s nothing you have to say. If you want, just put the first feeling that comes into your head! Or the most recent thing that’s been hard to deal with, or anything!

Thank you.
I don’t know if anyone else found this but being away from my toxic mother during the lockdown has brought up lots of feelings and questions.
I am considering dramatically distancing myself and family from her with a view to cutting contact entirely.
I was saying in the previous thread that she has been a loving grandparent to my children and they love her.
Although I’ve been told otherwise I think the power dynamic has shifted somewhat. There is now too much she can loose by being toxic towards us.
Up until lockdown I was still seeing her a lot, doing things together and helping her with things. This will now stop and hopefully get to a point where it’s birthdays, Christmas and Easter that we see her.

I’ve just read your thread Blutter. I’d start with the Outofthefog.website

We can get paralysed by fear obligation and guilt, worried about upsetting people, but in the process don’t pay attention to our own feelings and needs. You’ve identified that you’re in a situation that’s causing distress, and you’d like to make some changes.

Most people run on the family-above-all-else principle, they want what’s best for us, and love us but might make forgivable mistakes.

This isn’t true for everyone, families can be dysfunctional and damaging. If you’ve never lived in one it’s hard to understand, and even if you do it’s often difficult to let go of the idea of family ties.

I’d read up some of the stories here, have a think about the advice. Take your time, it can feel overwhelming.

We’re going to need a new thread very soon, I’m not sure of the etiquette!

Have read through a lot of these pages on this thread and am seeing so many people mention things happening/ traits that I can relate to.
I am realising how codependent my mother has made me and how much influence she has had on my life.
I’ve had a few seeing the light moments Over the last few years but always concluded that there is nothing I can do about it.
I arranged a confrontation, got a family friend to sit in and my partner whilst I confronted her. She tried the poor me I was abused tactic but I said that this was my sob story not hers. She looked broken and really sad. Said she never meant to hurt me, gave a half hearted apology. Everyone was crying by the end of it, apart from me. I swore down to myself that I wasn’t going to cry or show emotion.
A while after this she was diagnosed with epilepsy which, has affected her memory and other things (it’s under control with medication now)
She denys any memory of the confrontation now, handily.
Funnily enough one of the things I confronted her about was her lying to everyone about having cancer.
She told me one day that she’s been diagnosed with cervical cancer, she wasn’t sure how bad it was or how long she had left. I was 16.
She told me not to discuss it with anyone as it would be upsetting for them and not to discuss with my sister as she was away at boarding school and would find it hard.
I was obviously devastated, 16’s a difficult age anyway and I was just getting to the point where I was out a lot with friends and she was finding it harder and harder to give me curfews/ get me to comply with her wishes.
So, my single mother had cancer, I wasn’t allowed to tell anyone and she might die.
She was in her element telling me about cancer clinics, biopsies. She used this to guilt and control me for a while. If I went out it was “oh you’re leaving me all alone with cancer and a bad back” (of course so bad she was bed ridden and needing bringing food/ drinks)
At that age I was out doing things I shouldn’t have been, drinking, smoking experimenting with drugs. The guilt I felt was monumental. I hated myself. Leaving my sick and bedridden mother at home without so much as a sip of water whilst I spent time with friends getting off my face.
Obviously her friends were called in to help, the ones that really cared and I was made to feel guilty all over again.

I knew something was up as there wasn’t any chemo/ radio therapy going on so I smelt a rat. And also I had the Internet for information which she hadn’t cottoned on to.

When I was about 18 I told her I’d been to the doctors about a lump and the doc had asked if I had any cancer in the family. I said the doc had asked to access my mums medical notes to see what cancer was in the family. Her face. “Oh, well I’m sure they wouldn’t need my information. You’ll be fine, it’s just a lump, nothing wrong with you...”

All lies. What actually happened was she had a smear back that was concerning and she had some pre cancerous cells removed from her cervix. Job done.

All I feel is anger. I feel like I want to get her back, hurt her like she has me.

I forgot to add which was the point before it turned into an essay (sorry!) that she has never so much as mentioned having cancer or anything to do with it ever again since the confrontation. All she could muster when I asked her about it in the confrontation was “I thought I did have cancer”
Telling her that she hasn’t got away with her behaviour, that id got her number, I knew who she really was, was very empowering and gratifying for me.
She has trodden very carefully since then. Still wants to be involved in all I do but will back down easily and hasn’t pulled any major stunts. The behaviour has been much more understated and playing on the poor me, I’m the victim of everything card.

All I feel is anger. I feel like I want to get her back, hurt her like she has me
I feel you and I don't know what the answer is😕
I feel that there is no comfortable resolution, but there will be some kind of least worst option and ultimately You Will survive her and be free of her one day.
I can relate to what you say about the shift in the balance of power, for me it's been a question of monitoring the person whilst keeping very distant, recognising the maneuvers and techniques seeing exactly what they're doing and gradually getting in control.

Thanks. I’m ok with the anger. I think it’s my default emotion when I feel vulnerable. That and making people hate me.

I am beginning to cut down contact already. She has been texting today and I am giving the shortest answers I can.
She will eventually ask why I’m being so short, is everything ok?

Blutter god that’s terrible, but sadly familiar manipulation. You sound like you’ve been quite good at confronting her, but that she never really changes much.

She will eventually ask why I’m being so short, is everything ok?
just brush it off with a very short 'yep'
Hold your line, aint nothin' she can do:)

Thanks guys. I don’t want to totally hijack this thread but just writing that out has made me feel anxious. I feel like I’m being selfish by writing it. Like it was all about me and how nasty my mum is/ was and that people will see it and think I’m looking for attention.
I hope it didn’t come across that way. I’ve never written anything like that before.

Butterflies, I think that's because you've been trained to disregard your own needs, made to feel that you dont matter.
You do matter and you deserve space to air your grievances, you have good cause to do so!
We all need attention, attention is validation, we all need and deserve validation, to know that you are real and you matter