"But we took you to Stately Homes" January 2020 onwards

[toomuchtooold]

It's January 2020, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018-May 2019
May-August 2019
August-October 2019
November-December 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Thanks @Ulterego. Am calling doctor tomorrow about getting some therapy. Over the phone or when this virus eases off. I need to keep the ball rolling. Thank you for replying x

Do look at BACP’s website too blurted

Do try the GP by all means but you may well find that you will have to wait some considerable time before being counselled. It may well be also that you will receive only a limited number of sessions with the counselling having a narrow scope

Blutterflies

Sorry for the misspelt name, bloody predictive text

Hi blutterflies, welcome to the thread! I’m sure it will be helpful and don’t ever feel bad about writing everything down here. Lots of people find help in reading others’ stories - there are so many common threads in these dysfunctional families, that it helps to see the parallels and know you’re not alone.

As for your contact with your mother, just give her short shrift whenever she contacts you. You ask what about when she asks why you’re being so short. In fact, there’s a good chance she never will - she knows full well what the reason will be.

So it seems like low contact has evolved into no contact with my mother. The final straw leading to LC was when she came to visit over a year ago, feigned illness and took to her room for the last 4 days of her visit and ignored me. I didn’t return her calls after that, and became increasingly distant whenever she texted me. She made a few attempts to reel me back in - various illnesses and emergencies - which would have guilt tripped me into contact before, but I didn’t give in to them. My birthday was a while back and she didn’t contact me. For a long time she had my photo as her profile picture on social media, which I see she’s now removed.

I don’t miss her at all but hate the fact that she takes up so much of my thoughts. I think about her multiple times a day - unable to believe how she could drop a child so easily. I think I’m also grieving for the mother I would love to have - I see friends who have great relationships with their mothers and wish I had the same. It’s just such a strange situation - we don’t speak now but there has never been any confrontation. I don’t know whether that is better or not. I know that there is nothing to be gained from confronting her though as she won’t change or admit any fault. I also don’t want a relationship with her as there would be nothing positive to be gained from it. For those of you who are further down this road - how long does this go on for? When do you start to forget about them? Does it ever get better?

chloe I’m just under a year, some days it’s hard to stop the thoughts/anger/sadness/guilt. Some days it’s a fleeting flicker.
Now is an odd time though, so much focus on loss and relationships.

I just hold on to the huge feeling of relief that I’m not worrying about any specific meeting or imminent conversation.

I’m sure it’s different for everyone though depending on what’s gone on and how much support you’re getting. Do you have anything you do for yourself when you’re struggling?

Parent number one I cut out of my life over a decade ago that one was the more obviously dysfunctional/volatile, I now see them as a loose cannon that was controlled by the second parent.
Second parent much more controlled never ever loses their temper, subtly cruel but it's all done with a smile on the face.
The first one I cast aside without a backward glance, second one much more difficult, very recently I have the sense that my anger has transformed from a vast roiling plasma to cold hard steel, it feels much easier to treat them coldly but not ruminate on it.
I'm wondering a bit about what is happening to my psyche 🤔 but it feels easier to manage 🤷🏼‍♀️

Hey everyone. I hung unaround these parts last year while trying to make sense of my shitty childhood. Things were ok-ish for a while, but last week I got one of those “there’s a pandemic going on, so why not rekindle our relationship” emails 😒

The email was from my mother, who is the enabling parent. I decided to reply, as she claimed that she herself had never let me down and that there was therefore no reason for us not to talk.

I sent her a long email explaining why I have found it hard to maintain contact with her after she had stood by while my dad subjected me to all kinds of emotional abuse for years. I asked her if she would mind explaining how she managed to do this as it’s just so alien to me. Did she just not see what was going on?

Well...I got a response, but it wasn’t what I expected. Apparently she wasn’t to blame for any of it, but I was as I was such a “difficult” child. “Difficult”, as in not always agreeing with my narcissistic dad, which would make him go absolutely mental.

As I never talked to her about it she, apparently, had no way of knowing that any of this was affecting me. She even mentioned my attempt to run away at the age of 12 as a prime example of me not communicating with her as I didn’t talk to her about it, but wrote her a note instead. I would have thought the running away bit was the giveaway that things weren’t all hunky dory, but apparently it needed to come with verbal communication 🤦🏻‍♀️

I am frankly gobsmacked. I long suspected that she trivialised what had happened to me so she could justify staying with my dad, but I can now see that her attempts to justify herself go so much further than that. I can’t believe she is trying to shift the blame on to me. What fuckwit holds their own child responsible for the abuse they were subjected to?

Not sure what I want from this posts, but it feels a little better to share the madness. Thanks for reading

Hi Crazzycat

I read all your post and was sadly not all that surprised by your mother's response, I knew what was coming before I read further. I was absolutely expecting that sort of non apology from her; these people really do not apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions. How was any of what happened here your fault anyway; you were but a child at the time?. This is all on them really but you will never receive a proper apology; they will continue to believe their own distorted narrative and rewrite history for their own ends (my MIL is a master of all that in particular!).

These disordered of thinking people really do act from the same playbook. They are also very much masters of, "come closer so I can hurt you again". Now you really do know what you have already suspected of her to be actually true.

Your mother is indeed the enabling parent and also your father's secondary abuser. Her H was and is kept happy no matter the cost to his children, she probably needs to feel that she chose a good husband. An enabler supports the narcissist’s larger-than-life persona, extreme sense of entitlement, and abusive behaviour by
unquestionably accepting his/her version of reality, not standing up to his/her abuse, hiding or cleaning up his/her messes,
acting as an apologist for him/her, and blaming others (in this case you) for his/her behaviour. Toxic people like nothing more than a fight and or the last word and your e-mail response was the reward, you fell into her trap completely.

Now you need to heal and if you have not already done so block your mother from contacting you in future. You really do know what side she is on here and that is her H's. She will not change and nor will she ever be the nice mother you perhaps still want her to be.

Do not at all respond to any attempts from flying monkeys that may well now get sent in, they are not interested in hearing your side of things so their opinion should be ignored too.

crazzy I feel the underlying force motivating these types is that they expect absolute unconditional loyalty from you, you are not allowed to criticize or challenge her in any way shape or form and that's what she is punishing you for.
Serve her up a big ole dose her own medicine, trivialise and dismiss all of her concerns, trivialise and dismiss her out of your life.
Play fast and loose, make like a herd of cats, do whatever you please and refuse to be accountable to her in any way shape or form.
Job done✅
(I know that's easy for me to say)

Hey, hope everyone is doing OK today.
Been on this thread on and off over a few years now under different names.
The past week I have been feeling very low and I have a feeling its because I've been triggered. I've only recently learnt some of my triggers.
My mum had sent through some old pics via phone message as she was having a clear out. Was nice to look at hadn't seen them for years. She said she could leave some for me to look at and chose which ones I would like to keep. So she left a big bag outside my door and I've looked through them.
However I found myself crying looking at them. I don't really know why. I think partly because I was a nieve little girl who had no clue what her parents would do to her MH. Seeing me look happy in the pictures like we were a happy family but in reality we weren't. It was fake. Don't get me wrong I did have nice times too. I look at my dad in the pics and I feel no warmth. He's always been a back seat parent. Let me mum do what she wants.
Is it possible for both parents to be enablers? I feel they enable each other.
Another funny thing in the pics was a sand castle my dad built. Me and my sis were never allowed to help him his had to be perfect. We had to build our own. Always. And it sums him up really. He always has to be better than you, smarter than you, always have the right opinions. I've come to realise he's a fattist. Has always made digs at all our weights even though none of us are over weight. Tbh I'm surprised I never developed an eating disorder the way he went on if Id had a couple of biscuits. I also feel he's a woman hater. I remember when we were younger he would dig at my mum at the dinner table and reduce her to tears and then get me and my sister to join in. I feel bad now but back then I couldn't see why she would get upset. God forbid anyone would pick any fault with my dad.
Then there's my mum the control freak witg the massive mood swings and bad temper.
It just all feels like it's been dragged up again looking at them pictures.
Sorry for the ramble. Makes me feel better writing it down.

@summerrose11 that makes perfect sense to me. The photos look right but it’s just window dressing and not representative of your real life at that time.

Resonates with me a lot. Today I’ve had to block my mum on WhatsApp. a new low but I can’t have a pounding heart everytime I pick up my phone in anticipation of the next dose of disappointed, complaining poison. I challenged today’s particularly noxious message and she’s flounced. Dad as ever not sticking up for me. Ho hum. I just can’t imagine being like this with my kids - it’s unbelievable!

Thanks for your replies fanthorpe and ulterego. I wouldn’t say that there are any particular times that I struggle, I just find it difficult that I’m constantly thinking about her. I feel like it’s such a drain to be having such negative thoughts, but I guess it’s still something that I need to process.

Wow crazzzycat that’s one spectacular excuse. You were a difficult child (aren’t they all?), yet, assuming this were the case, wasn’t it her responsibility as a parent to try to find a way to connect with you. At least you have had the proof that you’re doing the right thing.

I’m sorry you’re going through such a tough time summerrose - ramble away, I find it helps just to put it into words.

chloe I guess it’s the formative relationship in your life so the fact that it’s now broken is going to occupy your thoughts, you can’t resolve it as a ‘problem’ now you’ve understood how damaging it is for you. Maybe you’ve spent your life minimising your own feelings so now you’ve got years of unresolved anger to struggle through. Pp’s have recommended writing down things that are occupying your mind as it can be cathartic. Obviously therapy is the central recommendation.

Tough though, when you just want to get past it and live. Especially the feelings of anger, shame and loss that go with the memories.

@Crazzzycat I took the blame for running away as well. I was 14, my mum who my dad has always told me "didn't love you enough to stick around, I had to raise you" I as dying of cancer. My step mum had already told me "I've raised my kids so you'll get nothing from me" and they were at the pub EVERY night getting shitfaced. I think I deciddd to just take my chances one night after they had yet another argument. Years later my dad relishes in telling people what a difficult teenager I was and how hard he had to parent me "on my own" that's not my recollection at all.

I have a career. I have a family I'm proud to bits of and we have a nice life: yet still the story is all about him still

So, this is my first post about this issue and may be a long one. I apologise in advance for that. It has recently come to my attention that I have a toxic family. Especially my mother. A minute and a half phone call today shattered my good mood into pieces. My 3 year old has had an upset tummy for a few days showing in his nappies so when I called asking if we would visit tomorrow, she heard him in the bath. When I explained why, I was told he shouldn't be in the bath, he should be outside because it is a nice day and also it will be because I am obviously feeding him s**t food (freezer food-which by the way I was raised on predominantly and my son gets a mix of home cooked meals and freezer food). Something like this happens everytime we speak, I get constant criticism no matter how hard I try. My sons father and I have had a rough time of it, with many issues between ourselves and if I'm honest my family contributed to a lot of our fights too. Whenever we decide to make another go of it, I get a torrent of abuse and criticism even being called a terrible mother putting my son through all this messing around. Granted I don't agree with the way a lot of it has been handled but my son adores having his family together. I am dreading the conversation of letting them know my sons dad and I are speaking again because it won't conform to what they want. They will constantly ask "why are you doing this to us?" and I say its not about you but it never changes anything. My sister also has these tendencies but she will go from being my best friend and we talk about everything including how my parents do the same to her, but then she will turn and attack me or tell my parents what I have said with no warning and it will all blow up. I feel like as much as I love my son and would never wish him away...ever! He has become the worst thing I could have done for mine and my families relationships. They demand about him all the time, when they will see him or what clubs or events he does or what I should be doing with him and if I disagree with any of it they make my life miserable until I give in. They also have this insane obsession with what they can have more than his fathers side of the family. They have commanded every Christmas at their house and my sons birthday is coming up and a family member asked what we would be doing for it with the lockdown and my mum without even asking me said there would be a party at her house. They try and discount my sons dads family constantly and refuse to even listen to any points i make about anything. I am constantly put down by them and I genuinely feel like i cant make a decision without their approval because the backlash will simply not be worth having my own voice. Also, my mother especially is fixated on my sister, anything she does wrong is likely somehow my fault and she will ring her every day to check in and see how she is but will only speak to me to get through to my son. I lost my best friend a couple of weeks ago and not one member of my family has bothered to check in and see how I am coping. I have barely seen or heard from them other than to get constant grief.
Has anyone been in a similar situation? What do I do?

Just as a last note they are not bad parents, they do a lot of wonderful things and financially have always been there, and will always give advice. It just changes every so often to this unbelievably painful experience usually when I choose to do something they don't agree with, such as give my little family another chance or put feelers out for a career they don't agree with or disagree with them on a matter about my son or say anything at all that could be taken negatively about my sister.

Thanks all. I’ve been spending a lot of time over the last few days asking myself how “difficult” I actually was as a child. I know I shouldn’t really go there, but the mind wanders... I even ended up asking my DH if he thought I was a bad person! It’d be funny if it wasn’t so sad 😒

In a way I’m quite relieved that I finally got an answer from my mother about what was going on in her head while I was growing up. It means I can let go of the guilt I used to feel about her being stuck between my dad and I. She clearly never saw it like that. She was, and still is, completely focussed on my dad’s feelings, closely followed by her own. I’ve come to realise that my needs as a child just never really featured on her radar. In the long term I think that will help me come to terms with things. It’s good to know where you stand!

I’m pondering sending her another email to see if I can get some more answers. She’s extremely emotionally distant, but at least that comes with one advantage; no matter how confrontational the questions I ask, she’ll answer them as if she’s just popped a packet of Valium. Crazy, but calm!

I would not poke the bear.

@Bekiboom my situation is quite different from yours, but it sounds very much like your parents are trying to control you. That’s obviously not a healthy situation for you to be in.

You say they are not bad parents, because they do things for you. Well so did mine, but that doesn’t excuse all the other behaviour. The constant criticism and trying to control you sounds highly abusive to me.

I think you need to set some very clear boundaries, but I know that’s much easier said than done. Hopefully someone will come along soon with some better advice

Nice to see I'm not alone. The name of this thread makes me laugh - my parents literally did take us to stately homes (while we were living in a caravan and missing school). It took decades to work out I was a parentified child with one narcissistic parent (everyone else thinks she's great) and the other an alcoholic. I have made great progress by reparenting myself, although it's been a long long road through lots of mistakes. The guilt is always there of course: Oh how come everyone else wants to be with their mum and can reveal their life to her and doesn't end up eating half of Tesco's whenever they visit, I am an evil ungrateful daughter, etc etc. They weren't all bad, of course. Because my brains came from her and were a reflection of her, I was encouraged to study, so that worked out. I went Low Contact when I was about 10, after she tried to tell me that things that had happened to me hadn't happened, and then started using me as a confidante ... Having made every life choice based on what my mother would not do, while it has resulted in raising really well-adjusted kids, is possibly not going to bring lasting happiness. I'm not interested in making peace with her before she dies, every time I start to soften she will come out with a bit of bitchiness, but I would like to make peace with myself. Working towards.

Beki, your parents appear to view you as a thing to be owned and controlled by them, it's very difficult to fully realise yourself as a person if others are constantly trying to keep you shut up in the box they want you to be in for their convenience.
They do the nice things so that you'll come back for more of the bad things, and to soften you up so the bad things hurt more, like a way of rubbing salt into the wound.
And it gives them plausible deniability, if you complain they just point to all the good things and then they give you another kicking.
And it's the classic bait-and-switch manoeuvre, lure you in with sweeties

Hi, I'm new to this.

I was sent here from AIBU regarding a feeling of panic I had yesterday about my father visiting me. I got some useful advice there (some of it was very direct, and I find that helpful if sometimes a bit confronting). Link here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3900978-To-be-so-worried-about-my-Dad-visiting-today

I'm now veering between feeling very sad at the prospect of ending my relationship with him and what that means for me and my children (who love him) and trying to work out how to do it.

I'm a bit of a coward I think. In any case I don't think there's any facility in a big drama. I might just go quiet for a bit.

Thoughts? Has anyone been through similar and have any advice?

Hi Mincing😊
Thanks for linking to your thread (I have looked through but excuse me if I get any details wrong)
This man is reprehensible he's not worth your time, whilst I understand why you feel the need to give an explanation to him my feeling is that this sends a message that he is important, explaining yourself to him can be received as a way of indulging and referring to him
Really what he deserves is 'oi, shut it dickhead'
How are you feeling now? what do you see as your options?
What about being really firm with him and treating him like a badly behaved dog?
I appreciate it's very complex because there is your mother to consider, I agree with you that avoiding drama is a good strategy because that just feeds him and escalates the situation.
it's hard enough at the best of times but with all the stress and weirdness that's going on right now, phew😳
Go easy on yourself, manage the best you can for now and think about possible strategies going forward

Hello everyone - as requested, here is a link to the latest thread