"But we took you to Stately Homes" January 2020 onwards

[toomuchtooold]

It's January 2020, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018-May 2019
May-August 2019
August-October 2019
November-December 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

cravingmilkshake You've been through so much and the way your mother behaved is appalling. I'm glad you're getting therapy as it's a lot to deal with, but you sound like you have your head screwed on. Your mother will never change, so I think the best option for looking after your own wellbeing is to go no contact. And post here whenever you feel the need to.

Yes, craving you’ve been badly let down by adults who should have loved and cared for you. You don’t owe them anything. I’m glad to hear you’re thinking about your own needs, take care of yourself. 💐

Sorry for those still struggling. Rabbit I agree that you need to ignore your father, he's just further enabling your mother.

Craving, you are definitely doing the right thing going to therapy.

Question - did anyone else find they were irrationally angry after therapy?

I had my first session on Friday with a therapist who understood I needed to dig out and deal with my childhood.

We only scratched the surface but ever since I've been sooo mad with no reason.

To anyone else reading the philippa Terry book. Is anyone else finding it too hard to read. I have not one good or nice memory from my childhood only traumatic ones. I was labelled difficult from birth and gp advised that I be drugged as a baby, allegedly, my fault no fourth child. I find the wee exercisrs/scenarios in the book I just can't do.
Thankyou to this thread for getting me through the festive season I did say no to 80 Yr old parents coming but was very much guilt tripped and felt awful.

Love to us all xxxx

I'm finding it hard, Skyecroft, so I'm just reading a little bit at a time and only when I'm in the right frame of mind.

Sorry you felt such guilt over the Christmas season. That's what we've all been trained to do. Please be kind to yourself. 💐

Just come across this thread series. Can I ask if there a range of themes, behaviours and advice that keep coming up?

I have just gone NC with all of my siblings after years and years of abuse and collusion. I am now getting abusive and incoherent emails sent in the middle of the night with pictures of bombs in them. I have finally blocked. I had hoped that Xmas & NY would have been a time when family “let it go” and played nice. How wrong I was. Everything has escalated because I have withdrawn and taken myself out of punching distance for the last few months. They are furious that I haven’t come back for another slap.

My therapist is telling me I need to “grieve” my siblings - but my feelings currently just ricochet and vacillate between hurt and anger. Both painful and exhausting but not progressive. My mantra is detached, distance, dignified silence.

I also want to know how best to work with my DH on this. He has witnessed and endured the psychodramas for years. He has helped me put down boundaries and make decisions to block recently but I know he is exhausted with my preoccupation and dwelling on this.

I am now getting abusive and incoherent emails sent in the middle of the night with pictures of bombs in them. I have finally blocked
OMG, keep on blocking, that is appalling Gutterton no wonder you are hurt and angry, I recently blocked a parent and the anger has gone down now that I dont get triggered by communication attempts from them.
I dont know if you need to grieve, perhaps you need to grieve the relationship that you'd like to have had with them, one does not grieve the loss of people who send us bomb threats, one thinks 'good fu(king riddance!!'

I did say no to 80 Yr old parents coming but was very much guilt tripped and felt awful
well done for putting up and defending that boundary Skyecroft, you did the right thing, dont back down, keep behaving as if this is a totally reasonable thing to do (because it is) and soon you will internalize your own message.
Hopefully the guilt is easing?

I also want to know how best to work with my DH on this
hmm, maybe instead of discussing it with him just write/speech type all your thoughts, then summarize it and the end of every week and just give him a summary?

@Skyecroft that sounds too painful, I would put the book away. Find something more healing, find a book about doing something you love and read that instead.

Self-help books can be useful in many ways but if your trauma is being revisited and made worse then the book isn’t helping at all. Please be kind to yourself, it sounds like you’ve had a lifetime of unkindness from others.

Thankyou @singinglily and @herocomplex and @ulterego, I've put the book away for now. Sometimes it just floors you how horrible your childhood was. I'm now reading a positive bryony Gordon one. I felt terrible re Christmas dm played the I'm a sweet old lady why have none of my daughters invited me. My mental health can't cope with her, luckily my sisters are on the same page. She is coming in Feb for a weekend and that will be it out the way for a year.

Thankyou everyone on this thread so lively, enlighting, educational and supportive xxxxx

Does she have to come Skyecroft? Can you stop her? I’m so sorry you feel you have to spend time with someone who’s made you so fearful.

My advice would be to get her out if your life. If your past is so painful then your future needs to change. Can we help you?

@Expat1986 talk to your therapist in your next session about what happened for you after you saw her. Believe me when I say he/she will be interested and pleased. You’ve obviously worked really hard if you’re locating your emotions.

It’s good anger, honestly.

If you can and feel inclined come back and let us know how you get on. Good luck!

@Gutterton - anger and hurt and definitely part of the grieving process.
It is described as denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance, you may experience them quickly, get stuck in one of them, even revisit a stage several times.

Getting abusive messages must confirm you’re doing exactly the right thing for yourself. Keep going 💐

My mental health can't cope with her, luckily my sisters are on the same page
you could try telling her, not that she'll listen...
ME:in order to protect my mental health I will be out of contact
PARENT: but you're all I've got waaaa waaaa
(did not appear to grasp the implication that they are causing me harm-quelle surprise!)
ME: block block block block block-aaand breathe:)

Thank you Hero and Ulter I think yes that the grieving is for what should have been - and the hurt and anger which reflect submission and attack and are emotionally hijacking me as I bounce between one and the other - and I need to process to a place of “sadness” which is acceptance.

I am a bit conflicted as to whether to tell some of the siblings that this bomb laden email came through from one of them who has a MH disorder - I am wondering if she is in decline or unstable? But worry that this just opens up a dialogue which is what they want and would just be twisted as me be alarmist. It’s hard to know if it is just the plain nasty ramblings of a drunk in the middle of the night or a serious MH decline?

Hi Gutterton

I would not respond at all, doing this will reopen a door that should otherwise remain closed. Do not JADE such a person, I.e justify, argue defend or explain.

It is not your fault that you received such awful and abusive comms (I would think the particular message sent could well be seen as a breech of communications law) and radio silence from you needs to be maintained.

It is also not your fault that the sender of such is like this, you did not make them that way.

Ultimately you will need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got.

By the way I have seen some of your replies on other threads on MN and you do write most eloquently.

@Expat1986

Well done on your first therapy session. I can entirely agree. I was furious after my first session last week and also today, however I sent her over some text messages from my mum this weekend and she studied them before our session and we disected them. It was helpful but because of what I learned I was mad.

I came home and had two very large glasses of red wine, which I certainly do not want to get in the habit of after a therapy session.

Stick with it xx

Thank you Attila - that’s a good observation that I am JADE ing the action - minimising to excuse it as “MH” whereas it is exactly directly abusive - this person isn’t on solitary in a psychiatric unit - they work full time as a teacher - thanks for giving me a slap. And thanks for the compliment.

I definitely agree about having to grieve for the relationship or relationships you wanted but didn’t have. And I often found myself emotional in a range of ways after counselling, and it can still pop back up at different times. Sending positive thoughts to everyone here.

Radio silence here after the doorstepping at Christmas and I’m gradually getting used to not feeling guilty about not missing them at all. I posted my sister’s birthday card yesterday, the next one will be my mother’s in March - and that’s the level I’m comfortable with.

Penelope have you gone LC rather than NC? What boundaries did you decide on and did you communicate these to your family directly upfront - or just in your behaviour incident by incident.

radio silence here
No contact is such a powerful technique, these narcissistic types tend to regard giving you the silent treatment as the ultimate punishment they can administer, when you do it back to them it's the ultimate insult there is nothing they can do, there is no where they can go, no way to save face, the longer it goes on the more they are set in stone as the person whose child despises them, sharper than a serpent's tooth.
I'm still laughing now at my mother, thinking she could punish me by subjecting me to the silent treatment, actually she was giving me a wonderful gift, I experienced the joy of not having to put up with her and she had generously provided me with perfect justification for retaliating in kind and forever
blisssss🌞

Thanks Ultero was just having a wobble that I had gone too far. LC was just not working with one of my siblings - the grey rock responses were just feeding her a bone and I found it exhausting and triggering to have to deal with and hold hard against boundaries. I am hoping that the NC will be easier.

I am still on a wider family what’s app group and this is causing me distress. I don’t want to show any action by leaving the group but I am finding the daily drivel triggering. Don’t know how to leave it in an under the radar way - any suggestions?

Go into your settings and hide notifications?

But quite honestly I would just leave the group, and I say that knowing how nervous I felt before I blocked and muted people. Actually you might find a lovely thrill of power goes with the action. Take control. There’s nothing wrong with your boundaries being high when others have none at all.

Gutterton, can you you block the group or mute the group, or just leave it and then block anyone who complains or comments about this?
I'm in a very scorched earth kind of mindset lately though so please get other opinions too!