"But we took you to Stately Homes" November 2019 onwards thread

[toomuchtooold]

It's November 2019, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
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May-August 2019
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October-November 2019
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Sorry@prawnsword just take your time, it doesn’t matter if you think your stuff is better or worse, sometimes just getting it out there puts it in perspective. And makes it less ‘in your head’.
Welcome 💐

Thanks for replying to me, I really haven't spoken to anyone about why I'm like I am before. I think it helps to know others feel the same. I feel odd about going to my GP about my anxiety and depression, I really dont want to take any medication. I do yoga and horse riding to keep me sane and calm. Interesting idea that my friend won't get it, she probably wouldn't say anything bad to me, I just feel it's quite a burden for an untrained and unprepared friend to take on! I hope everyone gets the support they need, I need to read the whole thread, but It's quite long, and nearly teatime in our house.... 4 hungry mouths have piled in....

I’m guessing @slippermaiden that you were brought up to think that your needs weren’t terrifically important.

Can I say to you that you are allowed to put yourself first when it comes to your wellbeing? Come back later when you have some time. There’ll be someone here who knows exactly how you’re feeling.

Thank you for replying @Herocomplex. I have read through this thread and love how supportive it is, I will reread the last thread too when I have time.

I hope I learn how to assert boundaries for myself as because I am still living at home it is all still exerting an influence on me, albeit subtly. I do notice I take on even my friends' problems and have quite one-sided friendships so I definitely need to learn to protect myself from that. Yesterday I was having a conversation with my DF. He has health anxiety and worries about his health constantly. Every now and again he will become fixated on something, usually just a harmless vague symptom, which is what happened last night. He uses me to calm his anxiety by describing his symptom(s) to me and I will respond something like "oh I'm sure it is fine", "oh that's normal, everyone has that". It is nearly always something normal and temporary like feeling weak because he hasn't eaten all day which is why I can often reassure him. But sometimes I can't and I feel really cruel if I say "I don't know, maybe go to the doctor". When I was a teenager he would also do this but I would start to feel anxious about his health. He also has a mild medical condition and he acts like I am "in charge" of knowing what he can and cannot do because of the condition. I really feel like he treats me like I am his mother.

How can I assert proper boundaries in these situations? I often feel guilty and like I am a horrible daughter whenever I try to.

You are taking on the emotional load, it’s exhausting. Can you think of some way that you could improve things for yourself?

I wonder if you could think about ways to build up your life away from your family responsibilities? Slowly change your focus onto things you’d like to do, rather than things you have to do?

A good answer to your dad might be ‘I’m not sure, what do you think?’ Or ‘hmm, what are you going to do?’ Turn it back on him.

The key here is to start thinking about what YOU want, all the other adults in the house are not incapable, but while you do all the caring their lives are so much easier.

I can categorically state you are not a horrible daughter. None of this is on you. None of it.

Herocomplex you're right I can hear her now saying "it doesn't matter what you think". She definitely has a mental health problem, I remember finding diazepam in her drawers when I was a kid. She often spent time in bed doing nothing. My dad is okay, he worked at two jobs, a factory in the day time and a pub in the evenings. He always worked hard and he definitely showed me he cared. But he did let her do the things she did, and I certainly wouldn't let my partner. I don't know, it really hits me hard when people have an amazing relationship with their mums. I tend to latch on to women I respect and who show me kindness, I spose it's trying to find that caring side I didnt receive.

That sounds horrific fabulous, feel free to vent here if they are driving you crazy! I live abroad too and the last time my mother came to visit made me realize that I will never invite her back again!

I feel similar prawnsword in that my experience is nothing in comparison to many on here. But everybody on the thread is so welcoming and helpful regardless of the circumstances.

slipper You sound like such a lovely mother. It’s no wonder that you feel so anxious after having been terrified by your mother as a child. I find it hard to confide in my DH too ashe has a good relationship with his mother. Obviously he knows how my mother has treated me in recent years but I’ve never told him about my childhood. I guess part of me worries in case he’ll think I’m insane too. It’s good that you have a friend you feel you can confide in. Hopefully she will have an open mind and not remind you that you only have one mother, and try to convince you to repair the relationship.

You are more than welcome here nanechange. You must have a great deal of emotional intelligence to find yourself on this thread at the age of 22 - I have the impression that most of the posters here didn’t really start questioning their parents’ treatment of them until in their 30s or 40s.

Like I said earlier, I am doubting whether deciding to go LC with my mother is justified and so would be glad of the chance to write down a few things that happened in my childhood. I would be interested in other people’s take on it, but I really don’t think I grew up in an emotionally healthy household.

I don’t know much about my mother’s own upbringing as she never really spoke much about it. She was an only child and I understand that she had an older sibling who either died at birth or shortly thereafter. Understandably my GPs were devastated and hugely overprotective of my mother. She wasn’t allowed to do anything really without them checking up on her. My GM died before I was born when my mum was still quite young. My GF was a truly lovely man, I only have memories of him laughing or smiling. He never got over being widowed so young though.

My parents married and had kids quite young. My mother likes to stress that she gave up an amazing career to look after her children. I think my mother soon came to think that she was in the wrong marriage. My father came from a poor family and left school at 14. He went on to learn a trade and was really hardworking - he used to work 6-7 days a week to send me and my brother to private school. My mother seemed to be embarrassed by him though, thinking she could have done better. I went to quite an elite private school where most of the other parents were professionals. My mother never used to let my father go to any school events and gave the impression that she was a single mother. I used to go along with it tacitly, which I’m now very ashamed about.

I’m not sure when it was that I realised my mother was having affairs with work colleagues, but I was probably around 11. She used to keep a diary in her handbag in which she wrote all about them. Towards the end of secondary school she took to sleeping on the floor in the spare room - a box room. I was too embarrassed to invite friends over in case they would go in there and see it. When I went to university she never came to visit me once in four years. She moved into my bedroom at that point and I remember being really upset that she’d moved all of her stuff into my bedroom (although admittedly it was her house). In my final year at university my dad found out that she’d gone on holiday with another man and threw her out. I have the feeling that in those last few years when I was at home and then when I went to Uni, she was so concerned with all of her affairs that she didn’t have any time to think about me.

I know that I had a privileged upbringing and she was never abusive or neglectful. But she just didn’t care. I had a great group of school friends fortunately, many of whom came from lovely loving families that I spent a lot of time with. I used to long for such a family whilst desperately hoping nobody would realize how dysfunctional mine was.

After leaving Uni I went on to have a good career, found a lovely husband, have kids, made a lovely home for us. Since then I think my mother has become jealous of what I’ve achieved. She has not once in the last ten years or so said anything complimentary to me. Whenever I have had anything big to celebrate she has always managed to put a dampener on it. On the rare occasions that I see her (I live abroad) she always creates some attention seeking drama or behaves badly.

It’s come to the point where I don’t want to have anything to do with her, as I get nothing positive from the relationship. I’ve tried my best to be a good daughter but it’s just not reciprocated. A few years ago she had quite a big operation and I took time off work to fly home and stay in a hotel near the hospital to be with her. Yet she never does anything to help me. She came over to visit after each of my children was born and then made me run around after her. I guess what I’m looking for is validation that cutting her out of my life is a reasonable thing to do. If you’ve got this far, thank you for reading.

@chloechloe Thank you for sharing. You say you didn't suffer abuse or neglect. But emotional neglect is abuse. She was supposed to be your mum loving and supporting you and she didn't do that.

My mother has always expected me to drop everything to run around after her but didn't visit me at university (apart from once when she had another reason to be in the city where I was) and didn't visit me in hospital when I had an operation. When she and my father have been ill I've been expected to take time off work despite them both knowing that I don't have anyone to support me which has put me in very difficult positions. Luckily my employers have been understanding but I don't know what would have happened if they weren't.

I've been LC/grey-rock with my mother for years but have recently decided that even that is just too painful and I can't heal myself with any thoughts that she might be in my short-term future.

It is up to you what you do to take care of yourself. Nobody will judge you on here. And the problem is that no matter how hard you try to be a good daughter it will never be enough.

@powkin & others. Occassional sharer on here. I am a big fan of the Motherkind podcast. Found this episode about trauma being passed down generations interesting. It isna bit woo in someways, but I also had some aha moments fir me. www.motherkind.co/listen-1/2019/11/14-ep81-how-to-heal-inherited-family-trauma-and-not-pass-it-on-with-mark-wolynn

@chloechloe your mother sounds as though she wasn’t quite present in her real life, like she was living out a fantasy with herself as a romantic heroine. Anything she didn’t like she just edited it out.

So I've just read the whole thread. There are lots of people like me aren't there? In a strange way that makes me feel better. I don't have any wise words of wisdom for anyone at the moment, just hang in there. I'm sitting here thinking about my grannie and grandpa, I adored them and yet maybe they were abusive to my mum, they never were to me. My mum has left a lasting effect on me that I hold myself back for fear of failure and will always say I'm not good enough. I recently got a new role at work and was convinced I wasn't good enough to do it. With a lot of encouragement from a lovely kind colleague I've actually done it. There are positive, beautiful people out there who want us to be happy and will help.

Cut loose Chloe
cut loose girl😎
✂️
What the fu{k's wrong with your mother 😮🙈😮
Man she totally craycray she totally totally away with dem fairies well actually no she was away with the goblins and the nasty little demons ....all the bad little people
Your poor dad doing his best and she just sneered at him the whole time with her every action
Come to think of it my mum was busy off having affairs as soon as I left home, she went off with a much younger man, so much so that everyone's thinking "goodlord how did she manage to pull him??"
oh yes she totally humiliated my dad but then he turned out to be a complete bastard anyway 🙈
Like I said cut loose ✂️

@chloechloe I've only read your recent post but It sounds like you are minimising. Neglect is a form of abuse. I'm really sorry your mum behaved so badly. How is your relationship with your dad?

Has anyone read Toxic Parents? I'm on the part about alcoholic parents. My dad has always been a problem drinker. And there was a story in there about the dad giving his child alcohol so it was their secret and the child felt a bond because it was something for them to be together over. This person later developed a drinking problem themselves. Similar with me that my parents have me alcohol at the age of around 13/14 at their friends bbqs/ pubs slyly. Me and my friend (her parents were friends with mine) used to feel so grown up. I think they just did it so they could get wasted themselves and I wouldn't be around them. I developed an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. I binged badly and didn't know my limits. Id often blackout and not remember most of my nights. Now after having my son I don't hardly drink one or two glasses here and there. But I've seen how much alcohol ruins lives. And it was so irresponsible for my parents to let me get drunk so young!!

@namechange2311, I am so glad you found your way here. There was a great deal in your thread that had echoes for me but as Chloechloe pointed out, you have a great deal of emotional intelligence at 22 to recognise that things are not quite right. Some of us take years and by then, the damage is well and truly done. I'm one.

This stood out for me in your post:

I do notice I take on even my friends' problems and have quite one-sided friendships so I definitely need to learn to protect myself from that.

As Herocomplex said, you are carrying emotional responsibility for everyone. Me too. I carry sole responsibility for the happiness of the whole world and it's a terrible burden. I carried it for my parents, for my GC brother and GC sister, and most of all, my much younger DSis who I mothered because M couldn't be bothered. I was responsible for regulating the moods and happiness of my friends, anyone I was in a relationship with, and for my colleagues at work. And you know what? So many of them - not all, but too many - took advantage of my people-pleasing ways that they ran me ragged.

It was the last lot that did for me, in the end. I had counselling for PTSD - for a work thing, not for family reasons. However, I am so good hiding myself that even a highly respected professional could not detect the barriers and I just did what I had to do, and said what I had to say, to tick the boxes. You see, I wanted the counsellor to feel he had done a good job. Because it was my responsibility to make him feel happy too. That's how messed up I was. And because I'd been referred for a work thing (my employer paid for the counselling), he didn't touch on family issues because I was a tough professional in a tough job and clearly capable and in control. It was only years later that I realised that my PTSD was rooted in my childhood, because saving the world was my responsibility.

You wanted some help on how to put some boundaries in place. Hero's given you some excellent advice. Put it back on them. Ask them what they think, what's their plan, smile and shrug and leave them to it. Step back, every time.

You will find it hard because the guilt will knot you up inside. However, it's a false guilt - one you really shouldn't have had instilled in you in the first place but that's one of the ways your parents have failed you. I know you love them, and you struggle with that, but they took all of the responsibility they should carry and they dumped it on you. In the end, they will let you wither away to a husk. If you let them.

Please have a good read of this website https://outofthefog.website/
It will help, truly.

@chloechloe that doesn't sound emotionally healthy at all. Your mother comes over as very narcissistic (seeing others as the reason her life wasn't perfect, the focus on external appearances) and it's not a great stretch to connect that with a childhood where she was maybe put on a bit of a pedestal.

The thing with the book, with details of the affairs - it almost seems as though she wanted you or your father to know. Did she maybe see it as proof that she was attractive? Was she showing off? What a head-wrecking thing to do to anyone.

I have the feeling that in those last few years... she was so concerned with all of her affairs that she didn’t have any time to think about me

My suspicion about people like your mother is that they never take any time to think about anyone, except inasmuch as other people help or hinder them in presenting the desired image of themselves and reflecting it back to themselves. I think people like this see relationships as a hierarchy - as a totem pole as I said above. They admire and defer to people they consider superior to them, and they look down on the people they perceive to be below them. And loving family especially children are always low down in their hierarchy. First of all because they know they already have your love - they don't have to try to make you love them, not when you're small - but also because their real, core self esteem is very low, and they actually believe that anyone who could really love them must have something wrong with them. Bad taste if nothing else.

I think that when you went off and made yourself a successful life, your mother was forced to confront the fact that the rest of the world had a very different view of your "worth" than she did. And they hate that. Once they've put you in a box, you're supposed to stay there. That's why she went the most mental when you were getting married. Now she's sort of shuttling between wanting to be able to claim you and your success as a reflection of how great she is, but also wanting to see you back in your box, which I think is the reason she invents all these illnesses and stuff, because it's a way she can get you to go running after her. If she's like my mother (and I suspect they are all the same) she probably doesn't really acknowledge any of this to herself to the point where she'll forget, each time, how much she doesn't like being around you (sorry) and starts wanting to see you again because you have the perfect mother-daughter relationship, right? This used to drive me right up the wall with my mother. I'm pretty sure that all my mother really got out of visits to us was a bunch of photos of the kids to go and show her bingo buddies and brag about us (I never made it into the photos, I'm too fat ) and I often wished we could be more honest about it: I could have sent her a pack of photos and a list of the kids' achievements and home improvements and we could both have saved ourselves the pain of actually meeting up, but part of the whole pantomime is that you have to pretend that you like each other.

I think I get why you are not sure if her behaviour is enough to warrant LC. I think you have been used, in the past, to do what you could to manage her behaviour, and so you've never really seen her get angry as an adult. (And as a child, it sounds like your mother had plenty of narcissistic supply via her affairs. But now she is getting older and she's in narcissistic depletion, and this is when the fangs come out.) The last time she came to see you, you pushed back a bit (no bottled water) and she took to her bed for like 4 days. That's quite clearly not normal. I think that as the scales have dropped from your eyes, you'll be increasingly challenging for your mother and if you do see her, you can expect more of the same.

Richard Grannon did a good on this.

slippermaiden we are legion. And they're all. The bloody. Same. It reminds of cats. You know if you see one cat jumping about chasing a toy or whatever, you look at them and they look so focused and intent, it's easy to read a lot of intelligence into them, lots of motivations and complicated cat thoughts. But then watch two of them chase the toy - making exactly the same moves, at the same time - and you realise that they're just driven by reaction and instinct, and there is really bugger all in terms of deeper thoughts going on in there.

And well done on the job!

Jinglebells I believe my father was and is an alcoholic, but the morose, whisky drinking kind in my teen years, and now wine. Drinks every day, was once warned by his doctor that he'd be dead pretty soon if he didn't stop (stopped for a while, then moved on to wine).I can't relate to being given alcohol, however I did have a very unhealthy phase from about 17 to early 20s of binge drinking to the point of throwing up and blacking out regularly (probably twice weekly at least), and now I think it was a massive cry for help. I can remember crying about my family when I'd been drinking. When I was still living at home, I desperately wanted my dad to notice that I was struggling, but he chose not to, or left it to my mum. I really needed to know that he cared about more than just my grades. I'm very lucky that nothing bad happened to me, I put myself in some dangerous situations and didn't care. I don't drink anymore either, well not regularly anyway, as it definitely makes me feel depressed the next day.

Some earlier posts on university and not getting the support. I still can't quite get my head around my dad not being around to say goodbye (yes, I was at that point pretty much ignoring him when he was around, he was very disappointed that I hadn't made it to a 'good' university and I think he'd semi moved abroad to work but was back at weekends - but as the grownup, the parent, I wouldn't let my DC leave like that) and as my mum won't drive long distances, she arranged and paid for the son of a friend to take me and my stuff up. I'd never met him before, it was a 3 hour journey. It felt like everyone else had their parents with them.

University is a really strange one. I think they get torn between being envious and not actually caring, but also having to show off to the neighbours how their clever offspring has gone to university.

I wasn't taken to university - just put on a train and had to find my own way there, they didn't visit me, were never concerned how things were going. But after I graduated all my mother could talk about (and still does to this day) was the fact I didn't get a graduation photo taken.

I didn't get the photo done because I knew why they wanted it. It's funny looking back and seeing how all the clues were there. It's just a shame I needed another 20 years to put it all together.

Well done on your new role slipper - I hope it will give you confidence the next time that you start to doubt yourself. The fact that you had a lovely colleague helping you also says a lot about you - that you attract positive and kind people by your own actions!

It looks like I’ve started something with the being abandoned at university thing! That’s why these threads are so helpful - when you read what others have been through you realize that our parents’ conduct is textbook stuff! It’s like they are all working through the same manual. Although my mother failed to visit me for four years at uni, she did, of course, manage to travel there for my graduation! And insist on paying for the ridiculously expensive photo. Why on earth was that!?!? Textbook textbook. Unlike lemon I didn’t have the sense to see why at the time though.

How irresponsible of your parents jingle - you’ve done so well to avoid going down that slippery path yourself. Well done for spotting the danger and choosing to steer away from it.

Thank you everyone for being so welcoming.

@Herocomplex Thank you for your response. I love the idea of just turning it back to them and then just walking away, that way I have responded to them but haven't had to engage my emotions with it. Recently I have been feeling like I have been carrying around so much stress I am finding it hard to actually live my own life, but when I look at my life alone nothing stressful has really happened but it is because I carrying around the stress of my two parents and five siblings.

@SingingLily I have never had counselling but that is exactly something I would do too. I have done it with university lecturers and teachers too when I have gone to them for help (something I find really difficult to do and very rarely do). If I still don't understand I will pretend I do, thank them profusely for the help and leave and try and figure it out myself.

I think my people pleasing is also linked with me adopting these identities when I am with people which lack any kind of depth or vulnerabilities in order to almost be a blank canvas for me to help them. I am struggling to clearly articulate what I mean but for example, when I am with my family I feel like my identity is "Well Behaved Helpful Daughter" and anything that is outside of that identity is hidden by me. When I was with university friends/classmates I was "Competent and Organised Student" and I realise now that a lot of my friendships with course mates were one-sided and involved me giving up my time to tutor friends when they didn't understand the course material, etc.

I am wondering if this is something you identify with too? At work do you hide your vulnerabilities snd depth and adopt the identity of "Tough Professional" so that you are able to help your colleagues?

Thank you for your response, I will check out that website you linked.

Thank you for all of you who took the time to read and digest my long post - lemon, hero, ulter, jingle, toomuch. You have given me a lot of useful insight to reflect on.

I think you’re right that I’m minimizing jingle and trying to convince myself that she wasn’t that bad, as society expects us to have a good relationship with our mothers. I have a good relationship with my dad now, despite my mother doing her best to turn me against him when I was a child. The more I think about it, the more I realize how despicable her conduct was - she tried to turn me against him whilst living in the same house as him for years.

I’ve often wondered too toomuch why my mother was stupid enough to write everything down about the affairs. I don’t think she did want to be found out - it would broken my GF for a start and there she was quite careful to keep up the appearance of being a dutiful daughter. Your post is hugely insightful - you hit many nails on the head! I think appearances were hugely important for my mother. When I was small we moved house, literally across the road. Some new houses had been built - awful 80s new builds with walls like paper and draughty windows, but they had 4 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms. I think she was just desperate to get one up on the neighbors as it really made no sense to move. Like your mother, her only interest in me and my DCs now is so she has evidence of how wonderful we are to the few people she sees (whilst not believing it herself). Whenever she has been to visit she has taken masses off videos and photos. It makes me upset to think that she has this material and it’s out of my hands. She asked recently for photos but won’t get any. On the one hand I think I’m being petty and trying to get back at her. Which I guess I am on one level. But I’m the other hand I don’t see why she should have any right to play the doting GM when she has no genuine attachment to any of us.

Thank you for the link to the Grannon video. That really explains a lot! What he says about these people feeling entitled is so incredibly true. The final straw for me was my mother’s last visit when she expected me to look after her, when I was a few weeks post partum and had a newborn and two sick DCs to look after. And if I’d been stupid enough to dance to her tune she would quite happily have let me.

I am wondering if this is something you identify with too?

Absolutely, Namechange. I put on my tough competent persona with my power suit, strode into work (it was a heavily-dominated male environment and only the toughest survived) and was everybody's go-to person for problem solving and even conflict resolution. It was my superpower.

Then I went home, took off the suit...and crumbled. On Sunday evening, my anxiety levels crept up to truly paralysing levels. I staved them off by making ever more complicated recipes in the kitchen because while you are mincing and dicing and reducing, you can't think about anything else. On Monday morning, I'd put on my power suit again, be physically sick, then stride into work looking the very picture of confidence.

When the gap between the Public Me and the Private Me became too great to bridge anymore, I left. It was a very well-paid career and I was offered a big promotion to stay...but that would have meant having responsibility for even more people. It horrified me.

The day after I left, I binned all my suits.

Three months after I left, I was invited to come back and accept a public service honour. I declined.

Don't be me, Namechange. Make some space for you to be you. Your hopes and ambitions and everyday wants and needs are important too - give them the attention they deserve and do not be apologetic about it. You are not on this earth to carry anyone else's burden - it's tough enough at times just carrying your own. It's not selfish. It's just being sensible about your own mental health and emotional wellbeing. You're 22. This should be one of the best times of your life. No one is going to give you this time back if you spend it now on tending to others instead of looking after yourself.

@namechange2311 - I'm a people pleaser too, and reluctant to ask for help or reveal myself to anyone, really. I've thought about that a lot in recent years, and am trying to curb these tendencies.

I think for me it stems from various aspects of my mother. First, she was so volatile that I became adept at doing nothing that might provoke her rage. This has resulted in a hatred of any kind of conflict and a huge desire to pacify anyone showing signs of getting into a rage. Unfortunately for me my husband has a very short fuse where irritants are concerned. If the toast lands butter side down he will explode. It's very short lived and he is fine within a minute or two - but for me it immediately brings back my childhood and I am off kilter for hours.

When my mother was in a good mood she was absolutely fabulous company. She always seemed to want me to be a friend and boundaries were lax if she was happy. I of course craved happy mother and the reward was like winning the jackpot on the fruit machine. It was addictive. I no longer crave praise from her as I have lost all respect, but I crave praise from pretty much anyone else. Employers, my personal trainer, anyone I have helped.

Revealing myself is an issue because she has always known how to jab at my weak spots and I fear that. During my childhood she was insistent that a woman has no worth unless she has a man, preferably several. I was a terribly ugly duckling and she kept me that way with my clothing and hairstyles etc for as long as possible. During my early teens when I would despair of ever finding a boyfriend she would be all sympathetic, encourage my misery and feed me her valium to calm me down. Eventually I blossomed and then my worth became dependent on having a boyfriend. I started having an affair with the married school driver of all people and SHE ENCOURAGED IT. Later she insisted I spend a lot of time with one of her lovers because she knew he fancied me and it would keep him around. I'm digressing. Back to the point - revealing anything has always been frowned on. She hated it when the school asked us to write about what we did at the weekend or in the holidays and I was instructed to make it all up. I was not to tell anyone anything because "the only people you can trust are family". And of course I had already realised that telling her anything about a weakness in myself usually resulted in bad things. So I simply clam up. I have no very close friends because I won't let them in. My husband barely knows me and we've been together for some 30 years!

It took turning 50 for me to decide that I really do deserve to consider myself. Don't wait that long, whatever you do.

ive just read up to the last few posts, I can relate to what you all described. Not really told anyone much about me, I'm usually the person who everyone comes to, and I help sort out their problems. Everyone would say I'm a good listener. If someone asks me how I'm doing I just say oh I'm fine, but really I want to say so much more, like about how I cry most days on my own, and battle the bad thoughts about things. It's not easy to start that convo with people is it?