"But we took you to Stately Homes" November 2019 onwards thread

[toomuchtooold]

It's November 2019, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
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October-November 2019
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Reading what you say about your middle sister Singinglily, it's almost as if she smells an opportunity to seize power now that your father is gone?

You've hit the nail on the head, Ulter. Without my enabling father's sporadically moderating influence, there is nothing to stop my middle sister now.

Please don't apologise, Cecile. We all understand exactly how that feels and it is deeply unsettling and upsetting.

Whatever form the message takes, ignore it. Bin it, delete it, block it, whatever you have to do to remove it from your life, do it. I'm going to quote Herocomplex now. As long as you believe you can influence your mother's behaviour, she will control your life.

She has told family friends to remove their piercings? This is not someone who can be reasoned with, not someone who can tolerate any point of view other than her own so there is no point in engaging with her. You do not owe her an explanation. In fact, if you try to explain, she will bog you down with her own circular reasoning until you give up through sheer exhaustion.

Just bin the message, Cecile, and try to put it to the back of your mind. No response and no reaction is required.

Your plan today amounts to a small act of rebellion and I say treasure those small acts of rebellion because this is your inner self trying to be make itself known.

Cecile she disapproves of piercings does she? I would change my profile picture on social media to someone with a face full of piercings just to piss her off... Then again that's treating her as if she is important and she isn't.
just ignore the message, she is of no consequence, therefore her messages are also of no consequence 😊
It seems to me that when you just keep on ignoring them it puts them in a very difficult position, they have always expected you to back down and every time you don't they look a bit sillier, the ice that they are standing on gets a bit thinner, they run out of strategies, they run out of options
All the while your power grows

Hi all, I thought I would start the new thread now as we're on page 40. This is it here.

Thank you, Toomuch. I've just signed in...

I agree. Unless your sister has the same view of your parents it will be a painful struggle with whose memories are the truth. There is no truth, only your separate experiences.

Your parents have separated you from one another so effectively. You can’t save her, only yourself. While she continues to devalue you by rejecting your painful truth she will only hurt you, it’s not even on purpose.

If she does see the light about your parents then maybe you can find common ground, but don’t sacrifice your own wellbeing, keep your boundaries as strong as you need to.

Thanks everyone. I am not surprised that you all think that contacting my sister would most likely bring more pain. It's not as if I would want to see her again, and we live miles apart. What would there be to gain? I think I just needed validation from people who understand.

It's all about learning to trust our own decisions. Something our families did their upmost to stifle. They have only ever caused me and my family pain. I have got my head around this now, thanks to you all.

Would you say it's "normal" for a father to grit his teeth at a child aggressively and call them a mongrel whenever he is angry with them? My dad did this to me all throughout my childhood until I left home, but only me, never my sister.

Hi @user1463007194 we’re on the new thread now, this one’s nearly full.

And no he’s not normal - if you felt menaced by what he did then how can he be behaving well towards you? It wasn’t a loving joke, it had a bad effect on you, and it wasn’t your fault!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3786141-But-we-took-you-to-Stately-Homes-January-2020-onwards

Was sent here by lovely Mumsnet users, this is an amazing read.

Basically, I'm about to have my first child, a daughter, and being pregnant, I often think about the way I want to parent. I get these horrible flash backs of things, and more and more come every day. Firstly I acknowledge that the abuse I suffered wasn't physically violent, or sexual, and my heart goes out to people like that, but what I can remember and continue to remember is affecting me deeply, and it continues to this day. I'm pretty sure my mum is a narcissist.

As part of having the flash backs, I have taken to writing them down, would be awesome to get thoughts and how people respond to this type of stuff. xx

Memories:

Once, when I climbed the roof of a neighbours when I was a kid (I climbed things, kids do that) instead of dealing with the problem and disciplining me, she told the neighbour I was not a normal kid, that I was "retarded", she told me she felt like she had to say this to excuse my behaviour.

Once, when I was a kid, I had done something naughty, I don’t remember what it was but I do remember my mum berating my dad into punishing me, and my dad came into my room, and he couldn’t do it to my face so he said, "what’s that?" and pointed to something that wasn’t there, when I turned away, he kicked me and then left the room. My dad is was and is a classic enabler

Mum told me when I had children she hoped they would be just like me, implying I wasn’t a good daughter or kid, she also told me not to have kids, implying kids ruined her life

Mum being a massive drinker all my childhood (and still, probably), listening to music super late and keeping me and my brother awake, would often "arrange pills" as if she was going to take them, and she knew we were watching her do it.

She Never accepts apologies, instead, throws it back and doesn’t accept it or ignores it and gives me the silent treatment, and then has dad come and make peace, doesn’t face up to anything or acknowledge she can do things better

Gives in order to impose conditions and expectations for things in return

o for example, when my cat had an accident and lost his leg, my mum kept going on about the money it cost at the vet (can still remember $1200), in order to illicit endless gratitude. Instead of waiting for me to get over the shock of seeing our pet that way, she kept on about it. I was an adult not earning much money, but could have paid her back had she asked in a mature way for me to contribute

o Using the payment of my wedding to try and invite a load of people I didn’t want at my wedding. She used the excuse, well I’m paying for it. Using it as a control tool.
o Loaned me money to get out of debt then used it to try and emotionally blackmail me into doing certain things, and when I didn't do something she expected, mentioning the money

o Using our upcoming new baby as an excuse to martyr herself and seek reassurance and praise – like buying things and then saying that it’s not a good gift and my mother in law can get better things, wanting me to affectively parent her and puff her up, when that’s not what buying things is about

Humiliation: when I had a breakup with a teenage relationship, she would tell her friends that “I got dumped like a hot rock” repeatedly, and go through her phone book to have conversations about it

Parenting the parent: When my mum and dad separated once (she was cheating), Mum took me a long to tell my Nan, and have me stick up for her and support her because she couldn't stick by her decision. When the affair partner ditched her she came back to my dad.

Getting drunk and making fun of me playing the clarinet (my childhood instrument of choice) to her friends saying “people who play that and are good at it only sells CD’s for 2 dollars” instead of being visibly proud to others or me

Being unsupportive of me and my move with my partner to the UK – not acknowledging nice things at all, ignoring anything positive that happens to us.

When I try to stand up for myself and say things are hurtful, Mum doesn’t acknowledge, and instead has dad come in and tell me how hurtful my messages are (which are the ones where I stand up for myself) He only takes into account her perspective, my feelings don’t matter at all. This has happened for years and this time the comment was “well I hope you work it out” followed by a change of subject. Then mum tries to call as if nothing has happened. And when I don’t quickly forgive, I’ll be the one at fault. Not her, she’ll be the victim to her angry daughter.

That's all I have for now, sure I'll have more flashbacks at 3am.