But we took you to Stately Homes" October 2019 onwards thread

[toomuchtooold]

It's October 2019, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
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December 2013
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November 2018-May 2019
May-August 2019
August-October 2019
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

@Justmuddlingalong Big hugs. I'm sure everyone who's gone NC dreads the day they get the call that the parent is in hospital. I know I am. My dad's in his 80s so it will come. Will I go? I don't know. Will I regret it if I don't? TBH I don't think I will. I don't want an apology because I don't believe he'll know what he's saying sorry for, and most likely he'll still be angry... at me, at life, at how unfair its all been for him. Or pathetically sorry for himself. Its not going to be like a movie where we say everything we need to say to each other and suddenly all is forgiven. I think we 'children' feel we have to do the right thing in the end and be there for our parents in their final times of need, when really we need to be putting ourselves first because we've got our own family now and their needs are a whole lot more important. Put yourself first, or you'll put yourself back years, and your family will suffer for it. You'll all suffer more than she will, for a lot longer. Do what you need to do for your own mental well-being. Walk away unless you can find the strength to let everything she says wash over you. And I doubt many/any of us have that strength because the child in us still reacts as we always did, so don't feel bad.

jam group therapy is the narcs dream come true. I wouldn’t go near it.

NPD is very difficult to treat, most therapists lack the skills or experience. The older the person the more difficult it is.

It’s just another opportunity for manipulation. Ask your therapist.

Thanks hero! I completely agree. This would be a massive pity party for my poor parents. 'Look at these awful daughters!'

Straight nope.

Jam

Do not do any sort of family mediation, it is a recipe for disaster.

'family mediation'?
I might be tempted to reply 'what's in it for me' or what makes you think I have any interest in continuing a relationship with you, you bunch of fuck-ups
a dignified silence would of course be the best 'response':)

I was nicer than she deserves but this is in the family WA so made an effort:

~I’ve been in counselling for a few months. Counselling for yourself is a more sensible place to start than family mediation. Of course if you don’t see any need to, then that’s fine, there’s no point in going. Family mediation is not recommended for me at this point, sorry.~

Not dancing with you, bitch.

Nice work Jamd, I think this line is especially good
Family mediation is not recommended for me at this point
whatever they come up with you can just say your therapist doesn't recommend it :o

Does any one find NC incredibly lonely sometimes? Most of the time I'm ok but at certain points such as my youngest being born I find it so lonely. Especially as my sibling has been dragged into it they ignore any communication from me too as they have been turned against me.

It's funny really wen I first met my partner he said to me "what have you done, you must of done something for them to treat you like this" he soon learned I'd done nothing.

I've been no contact for close to a year with. My mum and two with my dad they have never tried to resolve it. Which sometimes makes it even sadder. I feel like they have died and I've already grieved for them or are part way through it.

Sorry for the ramble.

It's not a ramble at all, mylifenow27. It's exactly like grieving. You are mourning the parent/child relationship that you should have had but one which ultimately proved to be impossible because of their behaviour. Don't forget, you invested years of love and care and patience - as well as putting aside your own feelings of hurt and anxiety - just trying to make it work with each of your parents before you went NC.

Having children yourself pulls it all into sharp focus.

Do you find it feels lonelier at certain times? Times like birthdays or Christmas? Or is it just generally?

I don't really notice at events such as birthdays and Christmas. But I have noticed it feels incredibly lonely at times of need when someone would turn to their parents for support and I have no one it makes the stark reality hit home.

It's hard, I know, especially if there are some good memories of your parents mixed up in all the unhappy ones. The good times, however few or infrequent they were, are the ones we'd like to get back. The problem is that they come as part of a whole package and therefore at a price.

Before you went NC, do you feel you had a good relationship with your sibling or was that problematic too?

You don't have to say, by the way. I'm just trying to get a better understanding. I was NC with my mother for a full year and so, by default, with my Dad. I loved my Dad dearly even though he witnessed my mother's appalling behaviour towards me and did nothing. However, he died six weeks ago - I was able to be reunited with him in the last four weeks of his life - and as a result, I've been pulled back reluctantly into contact with my mother. I'm detaching myself from her again, bit by bit, but in careful steps. It's a work-in-progress

@mylifenow27 it’s very hard feeling alone at times of crisis. Your DP didn’t understand but you say he understands now? Do you have a relationship with his parents?

It’s fine for you to say to yourself that you miss the mum and dad that you never had and that you deserved. That loneliness might just be a greater need for you to think about yourself more, what do you want from your life? How can you help yourself to feel more nurtured and cared for?

Alternatively you can sit with your feelings, say ‘I feel very lonely and sad today’ out loud. Don’t try to push it away. You might find it’s easier to bear.

@SingingLily hope it’s going ok, and you and your (nice) DSis are looking after each other. I’m sure it’s complicated, but keep your goal in view and your boundaries strong. Not easy xx

Good morning, Hero, thank you and hope all is well with you.

My phone calls with M are now reduced to one per week - I smiled when I saw your previous post about Sundays being the dreaded Phone Call Day. The calls are very short now. She finds me too boring.

Grey Rock rocks

It's the scattering of the ashes this weekend (DSis will be there too) and once that's done, the far horizon beckons.

Last time I went to see my counsellor she suggested using mantras and I'm finding this helps when I start remunerating (which I tend to do a lot when walking the dog, supposed to be my peaceful time but turns into sad time as I mull it all over). So my mantra has been "My past/childhood is a part of me, but I will not let it define me" and I chant it in my head to stop me thinking about what I would say, should have said, etc. I'm also making myself think of the positives, that my childhood wasn't all bad and actually I was quite happy-go-lucky back then, and I'm lucky to have my DH (who has done so much to make our marriage work, its not easy for them either when we're going through this and feeling low), DDs and mum. I just thought I'd share in case it helps anyone else.

Thanks for the new head. Saw this in Relationships a while back and was reluctant to post for fear of sounding crazy, but why others have said resonates with me so I have to trust that what I say might just resonate with pp too.

To begin with I would be honest and say I’m off my meds, some quite strong ADs because of another illness and this is probably - definitely - affecting my mood and perspective, and things are likely to look and feel worse than they are. But at the same time there is a reason I take the ADs and struggle to get through life without them, and the way I feel without them is the way I’ve felt for pretty much my whole life, or as long as I can remember.

I’ve struggled to access counselling or psychotherapy - it’s expensive to go private, the free services in my area are full and the NHS MH clinic says I need regular visits but they are too busy to provide them so unless I am permanently suicidal there’s little chance I’ll get anything like that. So instead I’ve been gradually ‘realising’ things for myself but don’t have any objective view on them, including anyone to tell me I am wrong.

Basically I think I might have been gaslighted for pretty much my whole life. By both my parents really. My DF is a real piece of work - comes across as ‘next door charming’, he left when I was in pre-school and I’d barely seen him all my life but any contact had been very ‘me me me’ - as in, me paying child maintenance is ruining my life. He tried to have me adopted by one of DM’s husbands when I was still quite young but I was given the choice and said no. I let hi into my life in a big way a few years ago and was so happy he seemed like this great person I could finally have a relationship with. Then in the space of a few days, I don’t know how to describe it without going into detailed examples but at a point where I was away from home, with my DC and completely reliant on him he just turned and I saw an opposite side of him, he suddenly became extremely hostile, ripped into me - told me things about my personality. Which may be true, or not, but I don’t think the way he did it was in my best interest. I sent him away, just said please go and got myself home. Haven’t been in touch since but he then sent presents to my house for my DD with messages on them like ‘for when you are older so you know someone somewhere cares about you’ - I put them in the bin before DD saw them. He has recently tried ‘friending’ me on Facebook and I’ve just ignored it but every time I see it, it brings back the memory of all of this.

My DM raised me and I find it really confusing to try to think through my relationship with her. My whole life growing up, she told me that everything she did was in my (and my siblings) interest, for our benefit and not for hers, talk about all the sacrifices she was making. I’m now approaching 40 and disentangling the past in my head bit by bit and don’t know whether I believe that any more. She told me she loved and cared about me, but beyond providing food and shelter I can’t remember her being a parent. BY which I mean, getting to know me, getting alongside me, being in my corner - even knowing enough to be in my corner. All the things I would like to think I do for my DC now, I don’t remember getting from her. I don’t remember ever being held, being cuddled on the sofa. I do remember being dropped like a hot potato every time a new man came into her life. I remember that it’s only by luck that I wasn’t raped when I was 11 when she sent me out with neighbourhood kids she didn’t know so she could spend half the day in bed with a new man. I know she worked and worked to ‘provide’ by doing odd jobs for people, but I also remember being very alone and I feel like I’ve stayed that way. I feel like I’d experienced so much by the time I got away at 18 - marriages, divorces, moving between houses when her relationships broke down - that I already told myself I was never going to be in a relationship because they all sucked.

I’m an adult now obviously, but this may sound weird - I feel like emotionally I’ve always been very much stuck in childhood. Looking back I would say in my 20s I had a professional job and the ability to work, but maybe the emotional age of a 4 year old? - this made me really vulnerable - especially to men who made me feel they would look after me and told me they had my interest at heart. I ended up wasting years with a much older man who then wouldn’t ‘let’ me leave the relationship and I realised was probably only with me because I earnt more and had a flat near his job - it meant he had an easy life. He also told me things about myself at the end that made me think maybe he didn’t view me the way I thought he had, it was all a trick or show. I became a lone parent on the back of that, another older guy.

I still live near my DM - married again - and get the same thing from her that I got before, I guess. Like, telling me and everyone she knows how much she is doing for me when she will regularly spend half the day in the pub near my house but never come to my house just to see me, just to spend time with her grandkids. If I ask for anything it will come with a set of rules straight away - it can only be done within certain times because she has xyz to do at home, things like her cleaning schedule, cooking schedule can’t be moved. If I question her I’ll be ‘ungrateful after everything she is doing for me’. In some senses she seems to be becoming more of a child as she gets older, so for example she agrees to take DC to their pre-school, I ask her to be o time because otherwise they won’t receive their breakfast. She says ‘bloody cheek’ and starts criticising the pre-school provider. I point out that they are providing a service and it is DM who needs to be on tie. She trails off muttering - like her immediate reaction is to cast off responsibility or blame onto someone else, rather than accept any herself.

I hear a lot from DM about how ‘terrible’ I was as a child and teen. Honestly, I was top of just about every class in school because school work was all I had, the only area where I guess I got positive feedback. At home one minute DM would want me to decide whether we should stay with her husband or move out, the next she would lay into me for seeming moody, and would physically attack me if I was moody - then tell everyone else how badly behaved I was. She doesn’t seem to remember that, but I do. My DSis in contrast (younger, not by much) could do nothing wrong and now as an adult treats DM like absolute crap - but she seems to jump every time DSis clicks her fingers. DSis will dump her kids off with DM endlessly to spend time with her latest man (ironic). It all feels so messed up. DSis doesn’t speak to me at all, or even look at me if we happen to meet - I always feel extremely rejected by her, it’s as though I’m below her, not good enough and she really wants me to know it.

Apart from my DC I feel like my life has been a waste. I’ve spent virtually all of it wrapped up i the past, in my parents relationships - feeling like I’m somehow more involved in theirs than mine. I probably had lots of chances at a better life - at a point I was healthy, with a professional job, independent life - I probably could have created something better and away from all of this. But it is inside my head, not something it’s easy to move away from, I have a better understanding of things having read most of the books listed in the intro to this thread but it’s 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

God, I’ve written a whole essay now and not sure for what purpose exactly. All it has done is upset me and I feel like this small, lost, lonely child again. At least off the meds I can actually access emotions - I can’t always figure out the cause, just know that I feel really low. It comes out in irritation, in being defensive if I’m criticised when I’m doing my level best and mostly on my own and things like that. Anyway thought some of this might resonate with pp. Thanks for reading if you get this far.

*thread, not head...

Unfortunately I’ve always had a difficult relationship with my brother as children we were the scape goats but more so me as I was older. My mum made out I was a problem child teen (after having child of my own I realise I really wasn’t) but this enabled me to become an easy target for my brother too. My mum didn’t bother with either of us really and wasn’t maternal. I moved out young and as I started to see what happened I think she panicked when I asserted myself an started to try strengthen her relationship with him by buying e.g he’s mid 20s lives with her never worked properly, buys him things all the time, is a stoner etc (at 18 if I was home later than she said she would lock me out and I’d have to beg her to let me in, if I even drank I was a disgrace) this resulted in me ended up in a hostel.

I don’t remember any good memories really just the craving of a mother. Or her Indian giver style as in she would help with something but it would be forever thrown in my face. I even had to buy my own school uniform from starting high school and if she contributed I would know about it. (She isn’t poor she’s very well off) we used to go away every year to Butlins but she would stay in the apartment and not doing any of the family things if I asked she’d say it was her Holliday too so was entitled to a break as she had paid for it. After the entertainment had finished she would go into the bar until the early hours and we would be left sat outside waiting as it was over 18 only.

My dad is a different kind he did lots with us as children as they are separated but he is selfish and always our girlfriends way before his children. To the point I was abused by one of his partners children and when I tried to speak to someone about it he went mental and told everyone I was lying. As I got older I realised he’s very manipulative an he will constantly put me down to nick my confidence, it’s as if he doesn’t want me to do better than him in case it makes him look bad.

In regards to my partner sadly his parents have passed but we have a good relationship with his sister and her children. It’s made me realise what family means and should be like.

It all resonates myfavourite, welcome x. It's hard to recognise the problem in the first place, and then once you do it's frustrating because you can't feel better until you've worked through so much of this!

My counsellor recommended me a book called 'will I ever be good enough?' (It's in the recommended reading post at the start of the threads I think) and wow it helped. Counselling is expensive but a good counsellor, if you can stretch to it, is worth it. Keep chatting. You're among friends. As is everyone here. Sorry I've not said hello to everyone. Life is so busy and I'm not getting a lot of time to reply but I'm reading x

Thank you Jam. I think I have to walk away for a bit as it's upsetting me too much to even re-read what I've written and I cn't get things dnoe today with a puffy red face.

mylifenow just reading something like even had to buy my own school uniform from starting high school I find myself thinking, would I ever, ever do that to my DC - no, never. It is so frightening as a child to experience these things because even a young child by instinct knows something about the situation isn't right, even if they are simultaneously being told by the adults that it is and to more or less STFU

Hi @myfavouriterain

You sound so stuck and sad. You’re so busy carrying everyone’s baggage you’ve got no space for your own wellbeing.

Can I tell you how much I admire you? You’ve tried to be a decent human being, shown warmth and empathy, tried to build relationships and laid yourself open to new things. You’re amazing.

It’s not your fault that your parents weren’t capable of thinking beyond their own needs, they were probably damaged before you even arrived. Not your fault and more importantly NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY.

Time for some changes, do some reading, some writing if it helps. Think about you, what do you want? Make some rules for how you want other people to treat you, make boundaries. (It’s a bit fanciful but I sometimes think of them like the salt circles people used to keep witches away!)

Build your life, it’s hard, but you can do it. Look at all the things you’ve struggled through. This is the good bit now. I have great faith in you. 💐

@mylifenow27 that bit about waiting outside a bar for her is so awful, I know that feeling - not really knowing where to ‘be’, just knowing you’re not convenient. Embarassed that if anyone noticed you wouldn’t know what to say. Knowing you couldn’t say anything, probably tried to be positive so she’d be a bit nicer.

You know they let you down but it doesn’t make it any easier to think about, you’re still left with feelings of being unloved and emotionally neglected.

There’s lots of things you can do, it sounds like you’ve found some good relationships now. That loss will always be there, but you can live with it knowing you’re understanding and taking care of yourself and your own emotional needs now.

For me, just someone saying ‘ that wasn’t right’ made me feel so much stronger.

Hope you find some comfort here 💐

Hi everyone. You'll have to forgive me, as I know this is primarily a space for women, but I need to vent so much right now and I figure those in this thread will understand what's going through my mind right now.

I grew up with an abusive father. Mostly emotionally, sometimes physically, but it wasn't full on beatings, just discipline being taken too far or being used too readily. He'd often do it as he knew it would hurt our Mum.

I was regularly told how useless I was, I was made to feel incredibly small and he always had to be in complete control. He ruled my brother and I through fear. My brother and I would go upstairs out the way when we heard his car pull up after work, he would then say to my Mum that she was turning us against him.

We were always provided for though, materially, although it was within reason. We always had clothes, shoes, food, heating, holidays. We were allowed to persue hobbies if he also had an interest in them, but was generally dismissive of anything he didn't see as worthwhile. He has a very black/white view of the world, with the first priority always being money.

My parents marriage ended when I was 15, but my mental health was in a real bad place. The next few years were even worse to a degree. I had freedom for the first time and I made many mistakes. My education suffered, I dropped out of sixth form, never went to university. Got a job in a warehouse to help my mum out financially, started drinking alot. My self esteem and self worth were non existent. My Dad doesn't believe in mental health issues though, I was just "acting up" to get back at him. I could go on and on with examples, but it all boils down to, even at 30 he still sees me a stupid young boy who can't do anything or doesn't know how to make "correct" choices.

In my late 20's, we managed to find some way of having a relationship of sorts. He moved quite a distance away, so my every move wasn't being scrutinised and judged. I don't know why I maintained contact with him. We believe he is somewhere on the ASD spectrum and I guess part of me can't fully blame him for something he can't help. My mental health got alot better and I even managed to find a partner and together we have a house.

She is due to be induced today, and my Dads behaviour over the last couple of.months is terrifying me and I don't know if it's just paranoia on my part. He's overjoyed at the prospect of being a Grand Father, and I don't want to deny any of our parents that chance, but I fear he wants to somehow get between my daughter and I, be "the favourite" as he's alluded to. He's purchased things for my daughter and hasn't said what they are because "that's between me and her", like he's already disregarding me as her parent. There have been other discussions/arguments aswell, such as regarding a christening. My partner wants our child christened, as she is from a culture where it is still the norm. I don't want her christened as I feel its hypocritical as I'm not a Christian. My Dad was adamant she should be christened and that I was being selfish. (I should add here, anything I want or would like, I'm being selfish for wanting them, despite the fact I go out of my way more often than not to accommodate people over myself).

He very rarely criticizes my brother and I to our faces anymore, but will often talk shit about me when he speaks to my brother and vice versa. He doesn't realise how close we are though, and we tell each other everything that gets said. We then don't say anything to Dad, so that the information flow continues, even when he says incredibly insulting things about us. He's told my brother that my opinions are "silly" and "petty" again infantalizing me, and that she needs to be christened to "open her up to God". He's never been to fucking church outside of weddings, christenings and funerals and has never mentioned having any belief, so I don't know where comments like that have come from. Surely it's between my partner and I what we choose to do though, he should have no say, but already he's trying to push himself in.

Every text or phonecall I receive from him at the minute is setting me on edge and I'm building up with rage, at what should be an incredibly joyous time as I welcome.my daughter into the world. I never wanted children, as I feared I would be just like him, but I could never imagine treating her the way he treated my brother and I. I already love her to pieces. Already though he's trying to push himself into the limelight.

He said he wants "play by play updates of how labour is going" and he and my stepmother are so excited. I said he'll know when labour starts and when she is born, the same as everyone else, I won't be giving details. I then explained, out of courtesy, that the induction is delayed due to the hospital having no beds available yet and he replied,
"Don't they know our Grand Daughter wants to.meet her public".

That was the message that has really set me off. Nothing about my partner and I, already placing himself as Grandparent above us on the totem pole. And I hate the idea that he is going to princessify her, as we don't want to raise her in that way.

Am I reading too much into what he says? I apologise for this message being terribly composed and all over the place, my head is just so full of old memories and emotions now that I thought I had worked through.

It's not so simply as to just cut him off either, or even talk to him about our concerns, as any confrontation is likely to turn heated and most likely violent. It would also be incredibly final, there would be no coming back from it, and I just don't think I'm capable of causing such a massive explosion in our lives and my brothers life.

If he ever treats my daughter in any way like he treated my brother and I though, then it's done. My partner and I both agree on this. My daughter wasn't there for all the shit though, so she deserves the chance to have a grandfather.

I don't know. Thanks for reading this if you've made it all the way through, it's had the desired effect and has calmed me down for now. I just needed to "get this out into the void" as it were.

Hello Frothy,
Your father sounds absolutely appalling, narcissistic and authoritarian, completely devoid of empathy very controlling.
I totally get your alarm at his behaviour as a grandparent, I would be wanting to shut him down as much as possible, I know it isn't easy but you can draw boundaries and you can reduce the influence that he has in your life.
you're amoung friends here, we understand😊

his behaviour is dominating and controlling, trying to insert himself into your happy life events and make it all about him, don't even engage with him on the subject of what updates he's entitled to, he is entitled to zilch!
it doesn't matter what he wants, hell get what you decide to give him, and you make your choices based on what is best for you and your immediate family.