But we took you to Stately Homes" October 2019 onwards thread

[toomuchtooold]

It's October 2019, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
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December 2013
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May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018-May 2019
May-August 2019
August-October 2019
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

My DP’s keep the thermostat at a toasty 16 degrees. It’s not cold apparently.

@Herocomplex Our house was always freezing. They refused to put the heating up and sitting there in the cold just added to the misery. And the bare minimum of lighting too.

Of course everyone else's homes were far too warm, stuffy, and bad for their health.

My MIL does not have the heating on very often and indeed turns it off when she goes out only turning it on when she returns. Its a cold house overall. She also does this because she is inherently mean. Mean with money mean with love is also a saying I would apply to her.

I read recently that 19 is the minimum considered indoor temp for wellbeing. I was going to send it but then I remembered I don’t have to go there anymore.

@toomuchtooold I feel your pain. My mother delighted in dressing me up in the most ridiculous things. When I was very small it was pinafore dresses while all other kids were in trousers and plimsolls. So guess who couldn't play without showing their knickers.

My high school colours were navy and red with a pretty relaxed uniform code. As long as you wore the colours and skirts weren't too short they didn't really care. So what did my mother get me at the age of 15? A bright red knee length sort of puffa/anorak/parka thing while all the other girls were in navy or black donkey jackets.

When we had home economics at school and the other kids brought their things in in a old biscuit tin in a carrier bag I had to carry this fucking huge basket with a gingham cover like something out of red riding hood.

And for gymnastic classes as I started going through puberty I had this bright yellow shiny leotard with legs that showed off every single lump and bump. All the other girls were in black or navy.

Why I wasn't bullied mercilessly at school I will never know.

toomuchtooold yellowlemon
Ah those stories have brought me out the woodwork.The shame and despondency of the clothes to make me stand out as a victim. My mother liked to bring attention to herself by always wearing a hat so she made me do the same.
I had a school hat like a blue felt boater which I was told to wear at all times when I was outside even in the playground. Of course no other child wore their hat and especially not when in the playground.
Such was her control over me that she enlisted another child at the same school to report to her if she saw me in the playground without my hat. Which the nasty little snot did, even when I was wearing it.
I was bullied.

Is she still in your life @angstinabaggyjumper?

Welcome 💐

I've never posted on here before.

I have been feeling so good lately. Strong and 100% adult, in control of my destiny and not bound to impress or please my mother.

She texted me last night. Nothing mean or rude. All nice and friendly. But then my mother is the master of friendly put downs. You sometimes don't even notice she's bitten you until much later as it's all smiley and jokey.

And now I'm in a fucking spiral. Feeling like a shadow again. Crying. Being needy with DP. And I'm not sure if DP is a good un or not. How am i supposed to tell when i have no reference? What is normal goodness and badness? What is abuse and what is normal? I have no idea. Am i abusive? Again i dont even know.

All i do know is that when it comes to my DD i do know what is right and wrong. She is showered with love and affection and understanding. Nurturing her used to trigger me but it is within me naturally to do it and i am 100% focused on meeting her needs. It has now begun to heal me.

I want to cut my mother out but I'm ill prepared for the fall out and not sure anyone in the family will really understand. Id have to cut everyone off. But then, maybe i should. I have a good relationship with my dad and he and my mum are not together so that would be okay.

Ive done about eight years worth of self development work trying to get over what this bitch has done to my sense of self worth.

Is it normal for her to tell my DD that DD loves grandma the most? It's not, is it? It's not normal for her to say she wants me and DP to go traveling for a few years and leave DD with her, is it? It's not normal for her to say she's worried about social services on my behalf, is it? Writing that all out, i know it's not.

I just want to disappear. Maybe i should disappear out of her life... i don't even know.

It doesn't help that DP is hungry for her affection and approval. He had an even more neglectful childhood than mine and enjoys her scraps of friendliness.

@angstinabaggyjumper and @NameChangedNoImagination welcome.

So sorry that you have had to go through all of this but you are with people who 100% understand here. Read through some of the old threads and you'll find that you're not alone and you will find strength.

There are a lot of wonderful people here who can give advice.

I've only just gone NC after being LC for years. It hurts, I'm sure there will be fall out but I am already starting to feel freer.

Posting on here can be really therapeutic and nobody will judge you.

@angstinabaggyjumper it was the clothes that made me realise that what she was doing wasn't just because she was a bit old-fashioned or conservative but because she was downright cruel.

In my early 20s I had a beautiful cashmere jumper that at the time would have cost me a lot of money. Stupidly I wore it when I went to visit. She retrieved it from my bedroom (never any privacy of course) and pretty much boil-washed it. Of course denied to this day even when I tried to show her that I couldn't even get it over my head. Problem is you can't reason with a naughty child.

@yellowlemon

Thank you for the welcome

Glad youre beginning to feel freer.

@BodySaysNO Hi, thank you so much. I can't believe someone else's mum does this. It's so weird.

My mum doesn't make things up as such, no. She lies to maintain face in front of others. That's very important to her. I tore a ligament and couldn't walk for a long time and my aunt called. I told my aunt who phoned my mum and my mum said I hadn't told her as she didn't want to look bad in front of my aunt. It's either that or I make things up.

She's trying to undermine me so no one believes me about the abuse. I did tell my mum about my ligament as I had to go to A&E etc and couldn't walk. My sister was meant to come and get me but couldn't be arsed so I had no help getting home. My mum said that I hadn't told anyone so no one knew. That wasn't true but she didn't want to look bad in front of my aunt.

@SingingLily When I look back, I think she's a psychopath. I had a bad bike accident and went headfirst into a ditch full of rocks. I hit my head, and all down my left side. My mum took me home, put me in bed and went shopping. I was left in bed for three days as I was concussed and couldn't sit up without feeling faint. On the third day she took me to the hospital and I had a broken collarbone.

When I look back on that, I was 12, I could have had a brain injury and died. I can't believe she left me in bed by myself. Do you know I asked the nurses, as I had to have an overnight stay, if I could stay there. It felt so lovely to be looked after. They let me stay an extra night.

I never bothered arguing with mine as she was violent. She'd slap me round the face if I argued with her. For a long time, into adulthood, I never bothered arguing back as she's still very aggressive. She'll come over to you and lean in your face shouting at you. The childhood fear kicks in. There's no point arguing with her as she'll never back down and will get more and more aggressive.

I was the same regarding not telling her about injuries etc as there was no point. I remember once she slammed my sister's finger in the car door and when my sister screamed, she told her not to make a fuss. There was no point crying or asking her for help as she wasn't interested.

Thanks for the welcome it made me cry.
My mother is dead now four almost five years ago. I left home when I was 17 but stupidly forgot what she was like and went to live with her when my father died. I felt sorry for her. I lived with her for 20 years because in the end I was trapped. I wish I had discovered this thread years ago it would have helped me so much.
I abhor the popular image of 'mothers' being saintly and no one loving you like your mother. I was made into a laughing stock by mine and then the joke was on me still because she didn't love me like a 'mother.' It took time for me to realise that it wasn't my fault.
Sorry I'm still very bitter and if the truth be told still confused. She's dead now and I still don't know how to remember her.

@parmesan189 Your bike story has just made me remember something.

I had really bad whooping cough when I was little (it was before I was 9) and had to miss quite a lot of school.

I remember being in bed whooping and whopping until I was sick with tears running down my face.

My mother used to regularly leave me for long periods of time to go off shopping or something. And the worse was when sometimes I could hear her outside on the street wittering on to a poor neighbour rather than coming inside to be with her daughter.

Even then I didn't expect comfort but it would have been nice if she was in the house at least.

This sort of behaviour really should be a criminal offence.

Because of my upbringing my relationships with others has suffered and I've always put my needs and wants below others and I was wondering if you guys have encountered this and how you deal with it. I've a difficult situation with one of my friends and I'm not sure what to do about it and how to reestablish my boundaries and the perimeters of the relationship. I do have a thread in AIBU but I can reexplain here if it's easier. It's not a parental thing but I know my difficulty with it definitely mimics my difficult relationship with my family.

Shit @yellowlemon now you’re frightening me, my DM did the SAME THING with my DD’s cardigan that I’d just bought from a really special shop, it was half price but still ££, it didn’t even need washing. She always washes her own woollens by hand, made a point of it. She’d stayed with me and put the cardigan in the machine just before she left. When I opened the machine I was so upset. I didn’t say anything to her, but it still really grates in me. She knew how special it was.

Dear God, Parmesan, that's terrible. Giving you food, clothing and having your physical injuries tended to are the bare minimum that the State requires from parents without prosecuting them for neglect. Your mother not only failed you and your sister, she went further by assaulting you. You were a child. A defenceless child.

Do you have much contact with her? Or with your sister? You don't have to say if you don't want, but I hope so much that you are able to feel safe now.

Angst, so much of what you say resonates with me. I was sent to school in my brother's hand-me-downs - or more precisely, hand-me-ups. He was 18 months younger than me but any new clothes were for him.

@angstinabaggyjumper I’m sending you a huge huge with a back rub and a tissue.

You were let down, very very badly. Think about yourself now, she’s gone. Read the thread, free yourself.

Also, there is one rule here, you’re allowed one ‘sorry’ in your first post and then you’re banned from saying it ever again. There’s no apology needed for speaking for as long as you like about what’s happened and how you feel. 🙂

Welcome parmesan! I’m new here too but this thread has been such a big help to me already.

jamon I think that everybody here feels that they are sometimes talking too much about their own issues - but that is precisely what the thread is here for! Like lemon has said, just reading about the experiences of others is a big help, as it makes you realise that you are not alone and also that these people are all very similar in the methods they use to manipulate us. I’m so thankful for this thread as for 40 years I never spoke out about my childhood and it never occurred to me that it would be acceptable or even healthy to go LC or NC with my mother. It’s just not the socially acceptable thing to do.

I’m still wobbling every day. I like the fact that you see the positive and emotionally intelligent side to these wobbles lily. Thanks for pointing that out. It will help me a lot.

Welcome too angstina and namechanged. I don’t have time to reply now, have to pick up the kids, but I am sorry to hear what you’ve been through.

@ConfusedAndStressed95 Hi My relationships have definitely suffered. With boyfriends I was either too needy, too distant, or picked emotional abusers. It's only in the last 5 years or so that I feel I've become mature enough to have a relationship but I'm too old now.

I never wanted children because I was terrified of having a daughter who hated me as much as I hated my mother. I'm very sad about that because if I'd figured all of this out 10 years ago then I may have changed my mind and had a chance to have kids. It's too late now unfortunately.

Friends - again either too needy or too distant or too smothering. Again, it's only recently I've felt I have proper mature relationships with my friends and I'm so grateful to them even though I sometimes feel that my connection with them is somewhat limited.

Jumpers are so vulnerable!
I saw one in Planet (are they still around?) that I loved, it covered up my big arse and flat chest (guess who told me that and I believed her) so I actually had a house sale of old clothes and curtains to purchase said jumper. Phew I made the amount required, bought jumper and wore it to stay with my parents for the week end. Guess what happened to it?
Apart from the ridiculous clothes there was the filth. I had one pair of tights for school ribbed and beige I can see them now, never washed and I was too young to have the wherewithall to do it, the feet were a different colour and sort of stood up on their own and the crotch...well there were signs that the tights hadn't been washed in weeks.
So, I fell down at school and one of the nuns yes nuns and it was a private school was insistent that she mend the rip in my tights. Despite my pleas she got her way and when I went to retrieve them the next day she looked at me sympathetically and asked if I was part of a big family. When I said no I'm an only child her face was a picture. Mine was very red.

@angstinabaggyjumper My mother was disgustingly dirty.

I had one school shirt so it had to be worn for 5 days. We didn't have a shower in our house, only allowed a bath maybe once a fortnight, so had to make do with a flannel for washing bits and pits. Just remembered we had one flannel but two towels. Extra gross. Really cheap roll on deodorant shared across the family.

Well teenage girls can get a bit sweaty and a bit smelly, particularly if they aren't allowed to wash or change their clothes. I remember the underarms of my shirts were yellow and the collar was sort of grey.

My father used to delight in telling me that I was a bit 'ripe' and a slut.

My mother never taught me to shave my legs or under my arms. Luckily I'm not very hairy so I just about got away with it.

Pretending she was the queen but living in a filthy dirty house full of plastic cartons with dirty smelly children.

I don't wish her dead. I hope she lives another 20 years in this miserable putrid world she's created for herself.

I'm very sad about that because if I'd figured all of this out 10 years ago then I may have changed my mind and had a chance to have kids. It's too late now unfortunately.

Me too, yellowlemon, me too. And you know what, I bet you would have made a great mum.

My DSis, who had it tougher than I did, has two little girls and struggles every day because she constantly questions herself about whether she's doing a good enough job. I think she's a great mum. There's no shortage of love and laughter and openness and kindness in their home.