He won't let me go out

[Dramatica321]

We have been together over two years now and its only been recently that he has had issues with me going out in the evening without him.

I have been invited to birthday drinks at a bar near Clapham Junction of someone I work with (and her friends, including another of my colleagues). All of her friends and her live in London but we (I live with my bf) live in Hertfordshire (20 minute commute from Kings X). When I told him I was invited he was initially ok with it because he thought it was a few drinks after work at a bar nearby (we work in central London) then I would come home around 8pm.

However, I told him today it was at a cocktail bar near Clapham, which I thought I already told him, and he flipped and said no way should I be going and staying out late (I told him I would leave by 10:30/11pm) and that he knows I will drink too much and do shots then get home wasted

He is basing this on a time a few months ago when I had a work do, stayed out until 10:30pm but had a lot to drink. I then proceeded to say fine, but if I can't go out with my friends it is only fair if he can't go out with his late. More often than me, he comes home at 1am and sometimes gets so drunk he doesn't remember the train journey home and also doesn't text me for hours even when I ask if he will need me to cook him dinner.

He then said it is completely different as I am a young girl and he is also mainly concerned about my safety. He says the overground line can be very dodgy that late at night and he doesn't feel comfortable with me staying out late and particularly as I will be wearing more revealing clothing.

I then said it is still unfair if he goes outside zone 1 which he often does to concerts, then he went on about its different as I am a girl.

I just think, although he is only concerned for my safety, that he is being totally unfair. We then got into a argument about it and I even said to him, I don't mind the fact he doesn't want me to go (as he also said he wanted to hang out just the two of us this weekend, and that would be nice), but its the fact he won't make an effort to go out less either. I said relationships have to be equal then he went on about how I am always saying things like "I am not doing that because you don't do that" which I do because why should I respect what someone says if that don't practice what they preach.

Am I being unreasonable? Or is he?

Realistically is more likely to be at risk of sexual harassment/assault than he is.

You are 23! Dear god you must start thinking for yourself.

I am 41. An old unworthy bird. But I have drink in central London many times and men have been fine.

Some men who were not fine in my life where the ones I had relationships with. Statistically, the man you need to worry yourself in terms of harassment, assault or criminal offences about is the man you live with! That applies to all women, btw.

Wise up sweetie and go to your drinks. Get a hotel and enjoy your independence. You have lots to look forward to.

I am 23 - so a grown woman, not a young girl

Just to put this controlling bollocks into perspective, when I was 23 my then-bf (now dh) waved me off on a month-long solo trip to Vietnam with the words ‘I love you, be safe, now fuck off and have a great time and don’t worry about me’

See the difference?

How high the risk realistically is, i don't know and that needs to be part of the conversation.

In the real world people who've been seeing each other over 2 years don't say (in response you someone saying "I think that's a bit risky") "I'll be fine, I'm giving no info on what I plan to do, if anything; mind your business, now shut your trap and never mention it again" ... Maybe on MN they do, but not in irl.

If they can't come to an agreement that either;

A. Realistically the risk is minimal and op shouldn't change a thing

Or

B. Op should stay in London with colleague or in hotel

Or c. Op should get taxi home

Or d. Op drinks moderately and sticks to it

And he agrees to minimise any risk in his drunken journeys home that op's concerned about, unless she also agreed its minimal ...

... Then it's think about breaking up time.

Yuk young girl? Ask him why he is with a young girl and not a grown woman then.
What an arse, you can do better than this.
he is not your boss, you are not an employee. He is not your master, you aren't his slave
HTH

You’re being very naive OP. I live 20 mins out of Kings X in Herts so I am going to presume you live near me. I have done that journey a million times late at night and have never seen an issue. My DD also works in Central London and until she moved, commuted home beyond midnight since she was 16. Never had an issue. If he is not controlling you in other ways he will soon. This may well be just the beginning. If you were my DD I’d be telling you to run.

How high the risk realistically is, i don't know and that needs to be part of the conversation.

It’s really not risky she’s not getting a train in South Sudan for christ’s sake! It’s a perfectly normal journey that thousands of people do every weekend evening.

And even if it WAS risky, it is HER RISK TO TAKE as an adult woman

I wouldn't be asking him if I could go out, I would telling him I was going out... (different after you have childcare concerns etc obviously). He's acting like your dad! Why does he get a say in where you go and when??

I live 20 mins out of Kings X in Herts so I am going to presume you live near me. I have done that journey a million times late at night and have never seen an issue

I lived 40mins out and on the (not many) occasions I travelled home late I likewise saw no issues; however I did see potential issues in the journey from other parts of central-ish London to KC, both tube and street routes.

OP, but when he ventures into the 'what you wear' territory, that is classic misogynistic control and manipulation. He is almost saying you dress like a trollop so will attract attention. This is 2019. Women should be able to dress like a trollop if they see fit (not saying you do btw), AND be safe at night. He should not even dare to bring up what a woman wears, will he next say a woman deserves to be raped because of 'what she wears'?

And regardless, unless you can clarify what you meant when you specifically said he "won't let me go out", then it still seems he is acting like he even has a say in where and when you go out, let alone telling you what you can and cannot do. You using let as in he "won't let me" is deeply disturbing.

You seem be backtracking and trying to say he is a good guy. Sorry, your original post said it loud and clear. He won't let you go somewhere. He then reduces you to a little girl. He then even brings up what you wear, for goodness sake! That one is probably the most deeply insulting and offensive one. AND, he says "it's different" when he goes out and stays out.

Your first post said everything, OP. Please don't backtrack now just because you find the replies on here confronting in stating it for what it is. If you stay with him, this will get worse. Bringing up what you wear (I would have walked out of the house not to return right then and there, after quashing the urge to give him a right hook) is all the final proof of this and is the precursor, the red flag write large in flashing (red) neon. If you feel scared by some of these replies, it is because you need to be. Don't be naive and come back here in another 2 years when you will post again for advice on his controlling and possessiveness when by then will have gotten worse (I will bet my year's salary and a quarter of my savings on this). Please listen now, and get out now. Don't be another statistic.

@JustWonderful Agreed, tube can be a bit of a mare, but I always tried to stay in busy parts and indeed same for the streets. There is always risk wherever you are. I’ve commuted since I was 15 and I’m 50 now. I can count on one hand the time I’ve seen any serious problems that didn’t concern me. The overground our though? Never. Just lots of people eating/dozing and always packed.

Also as I've said above, I don't see the risk as just of harassment/assault .. I see it as including more mundane but dangerous things like stairs and escalators and platforms etc. drunk in heels. Plus the drunker you are, the more likely you are to miss connections/make mistakes, delay your journey, not be aware of what's going on around you etc. I had to get from central London up to kings cross on a route I wasn't familiar with once drunk and I wouldn't like to repeat it; i made sure I didn't repeat it, I just kipped at colleague's place.

When I was 23 I had a baby. I look young for my age, too. DP is 10 years older than me. He wouldn't try to stop me going somewhere because he thought the area was 'dodgy'. He might say "get a taxi rather than train, I'll pay" or "do you mind if I meet you at X when you're on the way home because it's not great there" or "phone me any time when you're walking between stops alone".

but I always tried to stay in busy parts and indeed same for the streets. There is always risk wherever you are.

Agreed, as above I think you're more likely to be aware of things and be able to take good care of yourself the less drunk you are; so my advice to op - regardless of whether she decides her bf is controlling and she needs to end it with him - is to not get langered and try to negotiate journeys home, the longer, more complicated and less familiar the journey; the more that's the case.

Thing is OP its the control that's the problem - doesn't like the area, doesn't approve of your clothes. If you have children with a controlling man (even if he is 'only doing it out of concern') he will get much, much worse and it will be much more difficult to extricate yourself.

Incidentally on a separate but related subject, I found Clapham Junction to be one odd place the one time I went out there; at a bar near the station they were searching bags on the way on (I'm from NI and presumed naively it was for alcohol , maybe drugs at worst (yes cheap skate NI people commonly take cheap spirits into venues where they don't want to pay the prices and pour them into soft drinks they've bought) but it wasn't, it was for weapons (!) I'd never encountered that in any pubs I'd drunk in in London before. We left there and walked 10 mins to a gentrified area wine bar for a birthday party and it wax all young professionals and air kissing; hope you're heading for the latter scene 😉.

@JustWonderful they do bag checks everywhere where I live (big city, not London).
There are violent people everywhere. Best to be safe.

Staying out until 10.30 is not late at all, I stay out that late as a mother so as a young woman you should be living life to the full and if YOU want to stay out til 10.30 or later that’s up to YOU. This is not ok, is this how you want your life to go? Before kids husband and I would both be out in London sometimes all night long, as long as you let the other know where you are as an adult you should make the decision where you go and what time you leave, he has no say in the matter. He is controlling and it’s not normal. Please OP leave while it’s easy to to leave (before kids)

It’s a perfectly normal journey that thousands of people do every weekend evening.

Ate you referring to KC to Herts or Clapham Junction to KC late at night. I was referring to the latter. Esp as op doesnt seem familiar with the area/route.

And I've said said several times now ITT I'm referring to anyone, but esp someone wearing probably a skirt and heels, making journeys involving stairs, escalators, train steps, uneven pavements etc. while drunk.

Or tell him to pay for a taxi for you!

they do bag checks everywhere where I live (big city, not London)

I'd done a bit of bar hopping in various areas of central London and it was the first time I encountered it.

^Ate you referring to KC to Herts or Clapham Junction to KC late at night. I was referring to the latter. Esp as op doesnt seem familiar with the area/route.

And I've said said several times now ITT I'm referring to anyone, but esp someone wearing probably a skirt and heels, making journeys involving stairs, escalators, train steps, uneven pavements etc. while drunk.^

Both maybe it’s because I grew up in and around London but I just can’t fathom getting this worked up about safety beyond taking usual precautions.

Frankly, if at 23 (and assuming she is has no additional needs) the OP isn’t capable of making her way from Clapham Junction to herts of an evening, she’s got bigger problems than a controlling boyfriend.

But we all know it’s the boyfriend that’s the problem.

Sounds more like your Dad then boyfriend. He is controlling and you know it..you kust want mumsnet to convince you otherwise. Grow up or put up.