"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[toomuchtooold]

It's February 2017, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Wingingit I second the getting out in the nature. I sometimes (should more often) go out and walk with one of Richard Grannon's [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU9xNc-P8GWAdafmAcNVi6g youtube videos]] or podcasts on. He specialises in narcissistic abuse but a lot of it''s applicable to anyone recovering from childhood trauma and he's a really good speaker, really engaging.

Gardening can be good - it's physical, it's outside, and it sort of occupies enough of your brain but not too much IYSWIM. Any kind of exercise helps really, although it's murder getting started.

The other thing I do (don't laugh you lot) is sing along to The Voice blind auditions on Youtube. Or just any big-voiced sort of torch song stuff.

Also... it depends on whether you feel up to it, but these days when I feel bad I often try and sit with the feeling and feel it, really much. It is scary but it can be therapeutic to acknowledge the bad feeling, sometimes it lifts quite fast. You need to be the judge on that though, you don't want to be overwhelmed.

I had my first session back with my old therapist again. I'd changed therapists to someone who was supposed to be quite good on NPD, but he flaked out on me in January. I was really licking my wounds on that one but I've anyway moved on a lot in my own understanding and I'm much clearer what I need from a therapist (a listening ear, basically, I know what I need to talk about) so I went back and asked her as she was really nice. She's taken me back on and I'm discussing where I'm up to and I mention CPTSD and she pulls up this book which is like the size of a suitcase and I think the title is just "Trauma: a guide" or something and she recommended me three books and was nodding along with everything. Validated! Bloody hell. We never got to any of that in the sessions before. It's a bit frustrating. It's like, why did I not manage to trigger Trauma Mode last time, I'm banging on about guilt feelings and misplaced anger and my mother getting weird about tomato ketchup, and you've got a wall of books on trauma facing you, but its once I leave off therapy that I discover (via Richard Grannon saying something on youtube) that I have CPTSD.

It reminds me of when my kids were babies. I struggled in the early days, we struggled, anyone would. Two babies, early, small, feeding every 2 hours or so day and night. Got asked that "have you got any help" question by the HV. She gave me the number of Homestart (I couldn't phone it, I didn't have time) and asked me if I wanted a referral to the mental health team. I said OK, I don't think I had PND as such but I was certainly not happy and I was glad that once a fortnight someone else would come to the house and hold one of the babies while I fed the other. I tried to broach the subject of my childhood with her, I didn't know what to call it, I knew it wasn't right - "my mother and I don't get along very well. She was very authoritarian when I was a kid, I can remember beating up my stuffed toys, isn't that a sign of an overdisciplined child?" And she just said "oh I don't think it'll do any good to get into all of that" and moved on. I felt really ashamed and lonely that the first time I tried to open up to a mental health professional about my childhood she just wanted to brush it under the carpet. It made me feel a lot worse. I think that if I'd known about the NPD, I'd have been able to say "my mother was emotinally and physically abusive to me as a child, I don't want her in contact with my children" and it would all have been taken a whole lot more seriously. It's like you need a certain level of recovery and insight (above and beyond knowing that there's something wrong) even to be able to access help and make it work for you. It's so shit. What do they expect an adult child of abuse to sound like? Why can't they meet us in the middle? To get help, you need to have far more insight into what's wrong than you would if e.g. you had broken your leg, and yet a broken leg doesn't interfere with your insight or your communication, while an abusive past does.

I'm still really angry at that woman for making so little effort to listen. I know they're stretched to the hilt but it took me another two fucking years to cop on to my mother, go NC and seek therapy. Imagine the abuse was worse, imagine it'd been sexual abuse or physical, imagine I'd been at a lesser stage of recovery and believed that I should leave my kids alone with my mother because "she is their grandma after all". You see people being vilified in the papers for letting their abusers have access to their children but I totally understand how that can happen. It's a commonly-said bit of wisdom that you don't know you're being abused if you never knew anything else, but applying the truth of that to your actual life isn't straightforward. Ach, we know that. It's in the first post. Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

toomuch I suspect the records might have been with my school records, which are likely long gone. Without asking my parents I wouldn't even know who had originally referred me. And for obvious reasons I don't want to do that.

Thank you for asking Makealist1 - it is something that really hit me too. I've come to the conclusion it is because they do affect me so much - directly and indirectly.

I think the reasons why are rooted in my own upbringing though. Both my parents are dead now (my mum dying when I was very young - which was the starting point for the physical abuse and neglect. I was VERY lucky that I did have positive adult role models who did their best for me though - although I never told them about what went on at home through fear. I think fear and the hope of a free future sums up my childhood). I left home at 18 and straight away became low contact through distance - which was fab. I don't think about my childhood much now - I've processed it all I guess and I'm completely NC through death with my abusers (not my mum but my dad and then my step mum). When I do think of my childhood it is the good bits - the rest I think I have completely detached from.

Yes, DH's parents are here right now and local. They are also the only set of parents. They are it. DH told me (in part) 'what they were like' but I didn't really believe it was a big deal - there was no neglect or physical abuse in his past. Now I see that there was emotional abuse/neglect - and rather than that staying in childhood it has continued into adulthood, with the GC used as pawns in it all.

So, I eventually got it and now it is so very, very clear. I know it is 'DH's problem' and I should be able to completely detach and 'let him deal with it' (which he does) but...I'm not there yet. We see the FOG, and we are on the right track to getting out of it but...not there yet. I'm desperate to be though - I wish I came into all of this with my eyes open and not so emotionally vunerable.

I still grieve for the extended family we simply don't have, I guess. Feel bad for my DC (who knows nothing else) and worry so much about this affecting me/us to the extent that I/we allow it to trickle down in someway to yet another generation. I've caught myself being grumpy/lacking in patience with the DC when I've been thinking about them (and the things they have done, which if far too often).

So we've pulled away - given up trying, accepted it the way it is but every phone call, email, visit sends our mood tumbling (although we try very hard not to talk about it now). It is ridiculous.

As far as the golden child/scapegoat/lost child labels go - I think DH has been all three at various points. The main two being scapegoat or lost child (they compare him to someone of their generation a lot who I have never heard them say a good word about). His sister is the golden child almost all of the time...but...they make out they are victims of her - they have called her a bitch (to us, not her - they are lovely and bend over backwards for her), says that she threatens them so they have to do what she says etc. I don't know! I think they just cycle it depending on how they can get the most supply. They get as close to zero from us as we can manage now.

They have destroyed DH's relationship with his sister. I am 99% certain that they lie to us about her and then do the same to her - before things broke down completely they were always VERY anxious for them not to meet without them present. They have been obviously caught out with lies in the past but they still refuse to admit it and just brazen it out. Utterly bizarre.

So, I continue to search for the answer to how we can manage low contact and detach from it all to the point that is barely enters our thoughts or affects our lives at all...

Hello everyone. I think I have found 'my people'. I've NCed for now until I get a little more confident to post here. Sorry my post is so long and it jumps around a bit.

Here's a brief summary of my childhood and now adulthood (I'm 29):

Grew up with immigrant parents. Mother was the bread winner. There was never any love between my parents, I never saw them be affectionate or say nice things to each other. When I was 10 I found a shirt of my father's with purple lipstick on it - my mother never wore purple lipstick. He shagged around and used my mother's credit cards to buy hookers and alcohol. She told me this when she saw the credit card statements. My mother eventually divorced him when I was 13. She did well for herself and afforded me to go to one of the best private schools in our city (I didn't grow up in the UK), had a big house, nice car, nice holidays etc.

Saw my father a handful of times a year from the divorce onwards. He became a serious alcoholic - it destroyed him and he became mentally ill. The last time I saw him I was 20. I drove down to his house for tea and asked if I could have some money for petrol (I was a student at the time. My mother was so petty there was no way she'd give me money for petrol... she once yelled at me in front of my friend at our house because I took $4 out of a pot on the kitchen table for parking. She was yelling that I needed to replace it and how dare I take $4. She also once took both her hands around my neck when I came home from a night out because I was a "slut", and before my 21st birthday she threw me out on the street because I'd spent the night with a guy I was dating who she didn't like. Oh! And when I was 17ish she slapped me across the face "because you were being hysterical"). Anyway, back to my father... He said he'd give me some money if I slept with him. I ran out of his house and never saw or spoke to him after that. Two years later my mother flew to London to tell me he had committed suicide. I'm happy he did this and has found peace.

Now my mother. I wasn't a planned pregnancy. Not 'un-wanted' but certainly not planned. I'm an only child and I've always had a mountain of pressure put on me to be like her - a successful bread-winning businesswoman. I'm a creative type, not a maths or science type, but she forced me to do economics at school and subsequently university. I scraped by to get grades to pass. I hated university. I'm a housewife now - I don't currently work as we are struggling to conceive and multiple losses and time spent at the IVF clinic have left me nigh impossible to employ. Who would want to hire someone who is either in treatment or grieving every other week?

Back to my mother... she's had a tough shit life and I feel she has taken it out on me. She is always in competition with me and jokes are always made at my expense. 'Stupid' is a word she likes to use very often. I used to think she was just being funny, but as I grew older I learned she's actually just being mean. When I was 23 and with my then-boyfriend, my mother flew to London to have dinner with us. She was loudly making remarks about how stupid and lazy I am that when she went to the loo a waiter came up to us to ask if she was drunk and should we cut off her alcohol supply. She hadn't been drinking. That's just how she is!

She's always making comments that my life isn't good enough, despite my partner allowing me not to work and affording us an enviable lifestyle. She'll make comments about how unclean my house is, how shit the bed was for her back, how the coffee we have tastes like crap, how the towels aren't a colour she likes etc etc.

So my partner and I are getting married at the registry office in the coming months, kind of on a whim but mainly it's me panicking about Brexit (I'm here on an EU passport) so he said let's have a quiet 'legal' marriage and down the line when we've hopefully had a child or two we'll have the big ceremony/blessing and big-budget wedding. I called her to tell her this and she said "fine", I asked if she wanted to fly over to be a witness she said "no". That was about 3 weeks ago.

So fast forward to today. She had a hysterectomy on Tuesday - nothing serious, but they wanted to remove it as there was some suspicious but harmless activity. I asked her how she was after the surgery and texted her new husband to ask if she was ok. Everything fine but she has to stay in hospital for 2 nights. She's a private patient at a private hospital in her own room so I'm guessing she's quite bored staring at the TV all day. So this morning I texted her about a well known designer from my home town going out of business, and I have a little bit of cold feet about the registry office wedding and could she give me some advice... you know trying to make conversation to distract her from her hospital surroundings.

This was her reply:

Well I had major surgery yesterday and so far survived. So at the moment I couldn't care less about designer that's gone out of business. As for your impending marriage - what could possibly go wrong? You, or {my partner}, decide to get married 3 days after I left London. Really {my name}?? What does that say about you? And no, Brexit doesn't wash with me, the referendum was 9 months ago so you will excuse me if something is amiss... all a parent wants to do is see their child get married, I am sure you have a reason for taking this away from me. Any by the way thanks for your concern and enquiries about me. I really feel loved.

Obviously being sarcastic at the end there.

I haven't bothered to reply. I was trying to be nice and it is again thrown in my face and I'm such a terrible daughter.

I don't know if anyone has made it this far but I hope I'm in good company. Just really wish I had normal supportive parents!

Hello! Bloody hell, you've had a tough time with your parents. That's bloody awful.

I've had the recurrent miscarriage and IVF as well so a fist bump from me I've been thinking about all that recently, and how childhood trauma makes it that much harder to grieve your losses. Oddly enough I was working in an economics role when I had my last miscarriage (financial statistics) and IVF so I'm having flashbacks right now! The London banking world is bloody brutal, bad enough if you're well in yourself never mind if you're grieving.

That text really has it all. I think they just store up their bad feelings about everything and then wait for us to get in contact. I remember trying to explain it to an ex boyfriend, how my mother could always put the worst spin on anything. "A pessimist", he said. "Malevolently paranoid" would be more like it.
Oh god one more thing we have in common - DH and I also had a visa marriage (won't say which country although I've probably outed myself at some point in a previous thread) - I think they are the most romantic of all, as you're doing it not for the dress or the event or religion or whatever, simply you're doing it to stay together. What better reason could there be to get married? And I would count yourself lucky that you're mother is being "deprived"... of the opportunity to ruin your wedding by making it all about her. Have a great day, just do something you like and don't have any regrets that you didn't have the big state occasion - a bullet well dodged, I think!

toomuch we are basically twins :)

I had a late loss last year after a successful round of IVF. I was in labour knowing my baby was too small for the incubator only by a few weeks. My mum kept referring to my son as a foetus until I got really angry and scanned his birth and death certificate to her saying he was a living breathing human, not a foetus! She came back and said 'I was just trying to help you grieve'. Ummm if you want to help me grieve maybe acknowledge his short life, not call him a foetus .

I think you're right that I dodged a bullet with the wedding!

Oh another memory has come flashing back. So when I was in my early 20s I was doing quite well for myself in the City (those were the days, eh?) and my university asked me if I wanted to come back to do a speech for graduate students thinking of moving abroad like I had done. I invite my mother to the speech and she brings an old friend of hers. That's fine, the lecture theatre sat about 100 people or so, so she would drown out in the crowd. During my speech she sniggered a few times and after my speech one of the university staff said to my mum "you must be very proud of her", her reply was cynical laughter. I was so so embarrassed.

By the way, I have been reading this thread and older ones and whilst what we have gone through is very sad, I have been giggling to myself at some of the posts thinking "THAT'S EXACTLY LIKE MY MUM!"

Oh survivor I'm so sorry for your loss.
I was just trying to help you grieve
Oh, the upside down world of the crazy-ass abusive parent, where making it harder for you to grieve = helping you grieve. It's a wonder we all manage to function in the world with the amount of utter bullshit we've had to listen to in our lives.

Oh, survivor, it sounds like you're trying to interact with her as if she's loving and normal (because you are) and it keeps getting kicked back in your face :( Remember, it's not your failing, it's them.

makea, very interesting about the lost child thing. I'm an only child, but I almost seem to fit that in my extended family. I barely know anything about my cousins, despite having visited as kids. I invited them all to my wedding (and they came), but three of four have gotten married and I only found out via after-the-fact Facebook posts. The fourth is NC with her mother (DM's sister) and I barely know anything about her at all. She did show up at some of those wedding photos, though. That's my Mum's side. I don't even know many cousins I have on my Dad's - it's three or four. They're a lot older than me, so we never really did anything like play together. But is that a bit weird, to not even know? And then things like when elderly relatives took ill, cousins helped out, and I wasn't even told they were ill until everything was over. It's sort of like I don't exist, and no one ever thinks of me.

toomuch, that thing about sitting with your feelings sounds very like mindfullness. I've been using the Headspace app for 3 years now, and I feel like it has really helped me. It's meditation, but he talks a lot about mindfulness, and how being aware of feelings paying attention to the physical sensation, and doing things like going "oh, I can feel tightness in my neck and my stomach is a bit ill and my chest is fluttering", sort of consciously reflecting on the physical sensations that accompany an emotion has actually been shown scientifically to reduce the 'intensity' of the sensation.

I've been thinking more about my reading of the Self Absorbed book. Someone upthread was planning to look at it - I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. Now that I'm getting a bit past the self-doubt it engendered (I'm thinking I'm not a narcisist, although it does make that hard to refute), the way it approached some things and suggestions for how to help yourself actually made me think about my father, and the very sympathetic approach (as the book is written for the reader, who she seems to assume has at least some narcisistic traits) helped me understand some things. Like how he may actually really be panicked when I don't do as he tells me. We talk a lot about the narcisist's emotional expressions used to manipulate us, but I'm coming to realise that while this is the effect on us, they may actually also truly feel those emotions. Perhaps so strongly that the emotions overtake the person, and they are more a slave to their own emotions than I've previously considered. The book talked a lot about being pulled along by emotions and stopping trying to control others' behaviour in an attempt mitigate the effect of those emotions, but instead work on yourself to handle your own emotions. That seems self-evident to me, but perhaps to a narcisist it isn't -- my father is panicked because I haven't done something he wants me to do, so he tries to force me to do it in order to halt that panic. It does make a certain amount of sense.

And I've just started reading another book that actually might be of interest -- it's called Parenting From the Inside Out. I picked it up as a parenting book, but it turns out to be a lot about making sense of your own childhood experiences in order to make you a better parent now. It might be useful for those of us who are worried about knowing how to parent properly with our poor lived examples! The very encouraging thing was it said they've studied it and shown that simply being aware how bad/traumatic childhood experiences affect you now provides a protective effect from passing on reactionary dysfunction to your own children. Which is good news for those of us on this journey.

I'm afraid I'm really struggling to keep up with this thread, but I hope people don't mind if I pop in now and again.

Survivor - you do what I do. Try and initiate conversation only to have it steered away towards something else. You aren't allowed to have your own interests because they detract from the other person.

I haven't heard from my parents in over a week now. It's weird. Pleasant but weird. Even the kids haven't mentioned them lately, just their other grandparents.

I had a message from my sister as I accidentally dialled her. And I saw her and dn yesterday as I run a kids group which my niece attends. She didn't say anything at all to me. But there were no dark looks so I'm happy with being civil. Dn doesn't have a clue what's going on and tbh I'd prefer to keep the kids out of everything while they are little. They can do as they wish once they reach adulthood/independence. I won't bad mouth them. Oddly my eldest niece has also gone nc with my parents. She's been nc with my mum for a few years after an incident, and my mum was completely in the wrong but couldn't see it. But she's recently told my dad to stop texting her every day and has just withdrawn herself again. Her family is doubly dysfunctional as there are massive issues on her dad's side. But they do care for her.

Argh! Help me, stately homers! Horrible email from my mum. To sum up:

the reason I think she was physically and emotionally abusive to me is that I have had poor mental health in the past. I must relent to her demands to see me and my dcs. She has a list of family members who will attest to her fabulous parenting of me. I should speak to these people and let them change my mind about what she did and continues to do. I should re-establish contact with her and my dad immediately, for the good of my children and myself.

I have emailed her back to say that if she continues to harass me I will call the police. I feel desperate to shake her off but maybe this was too much. It's not like the police would take it seriously anyway, is it?

Sometimes I think it would be easier to give in. To go back to being the compliant daughter; her confidant; to let her be a grandmother to my dcs again. Maybe it would be easier to live in permanent fear, embarassment and shame than to be pretty much alone?

user

Block your mother's e-mail account as of now. You do not need to read such poisonous drivel from your mother let alone relent to any of her demands. Her use of the "flying monkeys" (usually well meaning but useless and easily manipulated relatives sent in to do their bidding) is a well worn tactic as well such disordered people use; do not give in and do not see these people either. They are only acting in their own interests anyway and certainly not in yours.

Do hold good on your threat to report her to the police; they will look into your claim that you are being harassed. I would not further reply now; replying to such disordered of thinking people anyway further fans the flames and the contact from you is their reward. They know they've got at you then. Toxic people really do like a) a fight and b) the last word. You need to completely disengage and detach from such hostility. You would not have tolerated any of this from a friend, family are no different.

No it won't be at all easier for you to give in. You cannot allow either parent here to unleash further hell on your children. They were after all not good parents to you, toxic people more often than not turn out to be toxic grandparents as well. Break free of them completely and consider also seeing a therapist; preferably one who is well versed in the machinations of toxic families and their power and control dynamics.

Better to be alone as well than to be badly accompanied by people like your parents.

Thanks Attila. I hadn't heard the term 'flying monkeys' in this context before, but what an apt description. None of them are people I've ever been close to, but they are those whove tolerated my mum's ear-bending the longest. Most of them have toxic elements in their own right (Homophobic or racist views, extreme religion, emotional abusive etc) so ta mum but I think I'll trust my judgement over theirs.

The thing is, I was such a timid, clingy (to her) over emotional and socially anxious child - that's how she and they think I am and how i should be. I don't want to be in that box. It was a horrible box, and I'm still in the process of climbing out of it. I've had a little therapy here and there over the years and I know I need more. Not having it is actually a form of self harm, I believe. In some part of my brain I don't believe I deserve to feel better or move on although the rest of me wants to.

I feel like they want me to be dependent on them. Even after everything they've done, it's only a few weeks since they were trying to buy my abusive ex out of my home to 'help' me. My feelings about this proposal were of no interest to them. Out of the frying pan etc...

Hi, can I join you?

I don't know what to say, if I wrote my life story I'd be here all day. I'm 33 and had a hideous childhood and hate my life. I've been having therapy but nothing has worked and it's coming to an end and I'm completely hopeless.

My therapist asked me who looked out for me when I was younger. No one. I've gone off the rails in the last couple of weeks and am not coping at all. I thought about her question again this evening and thought there must be someone who gave a shit, I thought back to my 12th birthday when I was in tears and the only person who asked me what was wrong was my mum's godson. He was a 3.5 year old toddler! This had made me cry uncontrollably for hours, I don't know what to do

I have nothing and no one. I can't bear the thought of going to my mum's for mother's day tomorrow to pretend we are a great close family and she brought us up to be happy well adjusted humans. I have a niece who is a very young baby and is basically the daughter my mum never had. I adore my niece, she's beautiful and precious and funny and has a personality even though she's only a few months old, but it's killing me that no one felt the same about me when I was young. I have nothing against my niece, I love her. I just can't cope with having a life without being loved myself anymore.

Popping back in after a long absence, because it's Mother's Day and, well, you know.

I've already had a text from her about how she hasn't been spoilt yet because my adult brother (who lives with her) hates her. He hates her because she told his (lovely and wonderful and must marry him at all costs) girlfriend she wasn't welcome in their house anymore, because she brought some washing down from brother's bedroom at clearly the wrong moment. I love his girlfriend and was so sad and embarrassed that she had to witness mum's batshittery personally :( brother refuses to speak to mum anymore, unsurprisingly.

I've had it out with her in the past and tolerate her at arms length now. Lots of excellent therapy has helped me feel calm and non-plussed about her shitty behaviour. But I still struggle when looking at all the Mother's Day cards, because I just don't empathise with any of them. "To the best mum ever", "I love you mum", "thanks for everything, mum". Bleurgh.

Meanwhile I have been thoroughly spoilt by my beautiful DS who will never ever know violence or abuse at my hands

Hope you're all doing ok today

Afternoon. I have sent mother the obligatory happy mothers

Whoops. Posted too soon.

I have sent the obligatory happy Mother's Day text. I am not anticipating a reply. I haven't heard from the parents in over a week. It's been quite peaceful.

I also have my first wellbeing appointment in a week or so's time. So we will see what comes of that. I'm still disappointed that I may never know what the psych said all Those years ago. But ah well. Put it to one side and move on.

I'd say it's a lovely day myself but all my own dc have done thus far today is bicker and fight. Perhaps it's just a reflection of what's going on with my own parents. I really don't want that to be the case so Dh and I are going to have to work extra hard these next few weeks.

Sent flowers with 'happy mothers' day' on the card.
Made obligatory phone call. Kept it distant and light. Like talking to a neighbour.
Feel better now.

Reading with interest as Mother's Day is celebrated further along in the year in my home country. Really dreading it. I think I'll do what you did iris and send obligatory card and flowers just so mother can put it up on her Facebook and pretend to everyone what a great mother-daughter relationship we have.

Sorry you find yourself here cooolwhip

Yes yes user and attila!! The flying monkeys. Whenever I try to call my mother out on being abusive she will say "what? Me? No I'm not, just ask my friends X and Y. You'll find they think I'm a great mother/person. I gave you a roof over your head and took you to stately homes! How dare you say I'm abusive!!!". I just can't win!!

Hello cooolwhip! Welcome to our band
It sounds like that 3.5 yo kid was the only one who hadn't had his head messed up yet.

biscuits
He hates her because she told his (lovely and wonderful and must marry him at all costs) girlfriend she wasn't welcome in their house anymore, because she brought some washing down from brother's bedroom at clearly the wrong moment.

Oh, that's such a classic. My mother has sent people to Coventry over remarks about cutlery, recycling bin disagreements and sachets of tomato ketchup.

I'm having some interesting feelings these last few days... I've been remembering stuff about my childhood, like memories have been coming into my mind, not intrusively, and not in an emotional flashback way (and also not memories of abuse) but with the emotions attached and it's amazing to me how much time I've spent being unhappy. I got a really intense feeling this morning of being in the playpark at the end of our street and a feeling of fear in my stomach, I don't know what for... I think my default was just scared and guilty, and these days it's tired and guilty. It's not a bad thing, I think my head is readying itself to grieve. My poor therapist, I hope her ears are well rested

Has anyone tried journalling their moods at all? I've been reading all this stuff about the somatic bits of CPTSD and state and memory and stuff and I remarked that some of the worst depression/dread I feel is often at about 4pm, particularly in the winter, and on Sunday afternoons. I was linking it to the winter afternoons and stuff but actually those were the times in the week when I was stuck alone in the house with my mother (too cold to go out and play (she would say)) and my dad was working). I wonder what other triggers there are that I'm not noticing?

I'm biting the bullet and going back to therapy. I'm finding my son turning 4 (which is how old I was when the abuse started) very difficult . Bringing up a lot of emotions. Plus I'm no longer rely on unhealthy coping mechanisms (self harm, eating disorders, far too much wine (actually maybe I still do that one!) I'm having to feel this and I'm not really sure what to do with it. I think I have stuff I need to talk about.

How do I go about finding someone? I know I need someone who is specialised in trauma work but anything else to look out for?

Hi Wingingit I literally just typed in to Google "Trauma and abuse therapists in London" when trying to find someone. I appreciate not everyone lives in London and has access to a multitude of counsellors but I'm sure Google will throw something up.

You're doing the right thing. Best of luck

Can I ask how much yours cost per session?
I've found someone online who looks great. Really well qualified and has done specific trauma courses. She's a little bit more that some of the others in my area but it doesn't sound too much at £50 for 1 hour. Now need to pluck up the courage to phone..or maybe email!

I sent the email. Felt a bit easier than a phone call