Why ARE some men so horrible to women?

[jezestbelle]

I recently posted about an awful weekend in Paris essentially spoiled by street harassment or other womens sad stories about it. I have to admit it has kind of coloured my view of men as Ive returned to London and to work. I am not naive or stupid, I know that most people do not engage in this kind of behaviour, but Im just really trying to fathom why, what it is they who do it get out of it. I mean if occsaionally a woman cracked and said ok then I will go to bed with you as a result of catcalling or whatever well I still wouldnt agree with it but you could see a certain logic..but I refuse to believe that has ever happened.
Another thing Ive noticed is women I think are almost self hating and almost gravitate to men who treat them badly, again kind of unfathomable... Also am kind of fearful of the male sex drive right now more for my lovely DD than me. If it really is as powerful as they say can it actually be controlled? I know I may sound paranoid but this is where my head is at. I should add that I do know some really lovely kind and genuine guys who would never dream of harassing a woman, I am even wondering about them is it just that they have supreme self control or something?

So the thick and the foreign are more likely to sexually harass women. Right.

I don't think it's even about looks though. I don't like when people come on saying that their DD is beautiful so they might suffer abuse, because even saying that, it almost sounds like it's reward for being beautiful. It's not.

These men are doing this because they have no respect for women, or at least the women they do this to. Not because these women are so beautiful that they just can't help themselves.

Let's not start mistaking this harassment as flattery.

It's a big problem. It isn't the only problem, but that is neither here nor there. The question was, why does this happen to women. Whether it happens to men is not the issue.

I think it's complicated - partly cultural, partly upbringing, and partly to do with personality types. To carry out this kind of harassment requires a lack of empathy and consideration for your fellow human being. To simply label it as misogyny seems like an over-simplification.

erm, Yops, no it isn't happening to men isn't an issue. Because it doesn't.

The misogyny thing? In what way is it 'over-simplified'? So a woman wishes to go about her business day-to-day, but some bloke wishes to invade himself on her, physically or verbally. She has no say, doesn't know him, doesn't wish the invasion. How is that not misogyny? " I have a need to invade you and your space and I will show you how I can do it."

Voyage, I'm not convinced IQ, education or religion have anything to do with it. I think that (like most behaviours) it is all about the society you grow up in. In our society it is (largely) accepted as 'one of those things'. Until that attitude is challenged, it will continue.

"You're incredibly confrontational Bert"
I asked you to back up an unsubstantiated assertion. And challenged a patently stupid statement. If that's "confrontational" so be it.

I was thinking it hasn't happened to me when I was with children on using a disability aid. I only get verbal if I am on my own or with other Women I last got physically assaulted as a teen. Even my children and ex's would note the staring at my chest.mother nature endowed me with big norks It's not just straight Men either, as Andy Peters spent an evening dining with a male staring at my Norks, across Nobu once, I felt so uncomfortable.

Oh VoD, that's utterly devoid of any analysis whatsoever! A 6ft woman will still get mithered by a 3'2" on average male, on line, in RL and where ever else - of course you know it's cultural and 'allowed' for reasons nothing to do with size.

I said I would not go there, Pan, and I won't. it's derailing, so just drop it.

Someone can phone me, at home, minding my own business. They want to sell shite to me. I don't want it. They become abusive, swear at me. Maybe nuisance call me for a while. Because I rebut their proposal.

They don't 'hate' me, or hate all men, or all white men. But they have no consideration for me or my feelings. It's all about them, their feelings, their needs. So it's about the culture they work in, their need for income, and their lack of empathy.

Yops - okaay, it's dropped. Because having an insistent cold caller on the telephone is just like being sexually mithered on a late night bus for e.g. as there is no sex-defined difference, nor safety issue involved? Got that.

Idiot.

Ooh, name calling. Always the sign of a winning argument

You don't think that harassment can take place over the phone? It happens to women, and it can be terrifying. It happened to my pensioner dad. I'll tell him your verdict.

"Voyage, I'm not convinced IQ, education or religion have anything to do with it

Fair enough. I am though. If you grow up with a religion that tells you women are worth more than livestock but less than men, then you'll obviously think less of women."

WTF?

This KEEPS happening. A bunch of shit happens to women and rather than men saying oh shit poor women what can we do, they say OH LOOK those ones are strangely brown let's get all racist.

Well no ask some women. Ask them what sort of people do this. Ask them what characteristics they share. What they share is that they are MEN.

I live in London and don't generally go around making a note of people's race but the top 5 or 10 nasty incidents I can think of off the top of my head all involved white, young, probably english men.

All this "oooh you're getting a bit aggressive aren't you i don't like that" poor diddums. How do you think we feel when a much bigger man or even a group of much bigger men decide to give us the benefit of their attentions? When we're, say 14? In real life? When there's no-one else around?

Idiot? It's a descriptor. Make of it what you will. IF your pensioner dad was sexually harassed over the phone AND it's relevant to this thread I'd be amazed.

I used to have a man ring me up and start wanking down the phone at me and saying stuff. I would put that in the sexist / sexual harassment camp and say it comes from the same place as street / internet stuff, personally.

They do it because they can. And they don't like women very much / don't see them as, sort of, real 3-d people.

Read this VOD, it should be mandatory for all men. Then tell us why street harrassment isn't so bad, and that online sexual harrassment is roughly equal.

Oh for anyone a bit baffled about the whole "men get harassed on the internet too" thing, well sure they do, but it's not usually sexist / sexualised, is it.

"WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 Sun 23-Aug-15 11:08:58
I suppose this is where the internet is revealing about what people really think. And women do get a lot of sexist abuse, hassle, threats etc. So, that might go towards the answer as well.
Add message | Report | Message poster VoyageOfDad Sun 23-Aug-15 11:15:51
Lots of people get hassled on the internet, I don't think it's disproportionately women tbh"

Not sure WHY that poster decided to completely ignore the "sexist" part of that and then argue vociferously including fairly crap links to show that men get hassled on the internet too when that is entirely beside the point of what was said.

In my first post I was specifically addressing the OP's question - why are some men so horrible to women? I can't believe I am being taken to task for agreeing with her that it is a serious issue within our society. I also said that if men have their own issues with abuse in our society, that this is not the thread for it.And I still get a bollocking!

This overly-aggressive reaction to someone who may have a different viewpoint to yourself, which results in abuse and name-calling - does it sound familiar?

voyage, perhaps religions are often misogynistic because the societies they formed in were misogynistic rather than the other way round.

I know it's trendy to blame all the world's problems on religion but it seems counter-intuitive to me. If you believe religions to be made up, then the people who made up the misogynistic rules must have already been misogynistic iyswim?

What makes you think that they wouldn't continue to pass on their misogyny to their children if religion didn't exist?

I'm certainly not saying that religion is always benign, I'm just saying that it's more complicated than that. I've never seen any evidence to suggest that (within the uk) men who are religious are more likely to engage in street harassment. Or that those who are less well educated are, or that those with a low IQ are either.

Just checking, voyageofdad- if I mention MGM, prostate cancer and accidents at work will you reflexively get cross?

OK

Why do you want to talk about men and women and the amount of harassment they get on the net

When the entire thread and the comment that prompted you saying that, are about the sexist and sexualised harassment that women and girls get.

?

Did you want to talk about general harassment and how it happens to both men and women, rather than what the thread is about, for some reason?