Why ARE some men so horrible to women?

[jezestbelle]

I recently posted about an awful weekend in Paris essentially spoiled by street harassment or other womens sad stories about it. I have to admit it has kind of coloured my view of men as Ive returned to London and to work. I am not naive or stupid, I know that most people do not engage in this kind of behaviour, but Im just really trying to fathom why, what it is they who do it get out of it. I mean if occsaionally a woman cracked and said ok then I will go to bed with you as a result of catcalling or whatever well I still wouldnt agree with it but you could see a certain logic..but I refuse to believe that has ever happened.
Another thing Ive noticed is women I think are almost self hating and almost gravitate to men who treat them badly, again kind of unfathomable... Also am kind of fearful of the male sex drive right now more for my lovely DD than me. If it really is as powerful as they say can it actually be controlled? I know I may sound paranoid but this is where my head is at. I should add that I do know some really lovely kind and genuine guys who would never dream of harassing a woman, I am even wondering about them is it just that they have supreme self control or something?

Voyage If a group of black people gather to talk about the racist crap they put up with every day is it helpful to point out that not all white people are racist and that some white people suffer racist crap too?

Or would you keep your oar out.

Even after researching it? Why do you believe that?

I don't think we extrapolate this behaviour to all men at at all when its only a few. It is the majority unfortunately and I think those that don't realise this were just lucky enough to get one of the minority decent and respectful ones who probably have fairly decent mates, like attracts like. That said I think some of you would be very disturbed by how your men speak and interact with their friends when you're not around. I've always worked in male dominated environments and the attitudes and behaviour I have come across would truly horrify many of the women who post on here. Their wives and families though, thought they were great. I don't think it's doing anyone any favours to make the point that it isn't ALL men. We know that, but it is MOST of them.

"Yes. Lots of people get harassed on the internet. Men and women."

Has a man ever been threatened with rape because he made a suggestion about who should feature on a newly designed bank note?

Has a man ever been sent pictures of his own face superimposed on a picture of genitalia because he dared to appear on television when not young and conventionally handsome?"

VoyageofDad- can you respond to this, please?

Isnt this partly to do with unhappiness? The men who say these things are obviously trying to change their reality there is something unappealing about not saying nice tits or whatever it is. Noone was ever arrested for not saying these things so it is not like it is compulsory. I think we established it has very little to do with sex and much to do with power and putting others down. If the men who act like this could be happy not having the power, accepting women as equals and superiors where appropriate they would not feel the need to act in this way. It is not acceptable for women to have to put up with this in any situation and I personally think it is not getting better or worse just morphing. Many very young men can no longer accept not being an immediate hit with women because of the internet, media etc, and some older men just have never accepted women full stop.. Sad but true, I hope it changes one day

Because the research I saw backs me up?

Can you share some of it here?

"Even after researching it? Why do you believe that

Because the research I saw backs me up ? "

Interesting. Link, please?

What astonishes me is that all of these men have mothers, many will have female friends, wives, sisters, daughters and they still talk and behave in this way.

Could you also give some examples of men being harassed online specifically because they are men?

Here's one, but I'm not going to play statistics ping pong

You can't have formed an entire opinion based on one study about Twitter. Surely?

What else did you base it on?

Why allow this to descend into a slanging match with an individual who doesnt seem to get the point? We need to be MORE shocked when harassment happens not less so, that is a form of normalising it after all. I do think the process by which attraction is expressed and the environments it happens in needs a complete reboot. If the reboot works maybe just maybe this nonsense will gradually disappear

I don't think it is about attraction though, more showing a female her place in society and reminding them that they are there on sufferance.

Excellent point BR , I think. Counting Piers Morgan for eg would skew any survey, but one thinks he was/is 'abused' because he is such an arse, not because he is male. His buddy Louise Mensch prob. gets a lot for being an arse as well, but also because she is female? Men will not be zeroing in on PM due to his sex.
And of course it's the depravity of the female-targeted abuse. AND the race analogy stands too. Rather than positing "well, there needs to be a balance struck".

"For girls and women, harassment is not just about “un-pleasantries.” It’s often about men asserting dominance, silencing, and frequently, scaring and punishing them."

Taken from this article. I really suggest that anyone who thinks that the abuse suffered online is the same for men and women read it.

jezestbelle

"I do think the process by which attraction is expressed and the environments it happens in needs a complete reboot."

I find that very interesting. I know what you mean, I think, but I consider the above to be more "trying to chat someone up in a bar". I don't count calling at me in the street an expression of attraction, more an act of bullying.

VoyageOfDad, if you don't believe women are scared of you just because, I suggest you look up Schrödinger's Rapist by (I think) Kate Harding. In fact, every man should read it and it should also be on the curriculum. Maybe then attitudes can be changed for the better.

Most of the men who I know (very distantly, former school fellow-attendees) who engage in this behavior are borderline developmentally disordered, only missing formal diagnosis because they and their parents failed to engage with the authorities.

Though Mephist, most of the men I know and meet aren't that diagnosable - just absorb with no critical thought what messages are given to them, what the entitlement is and feel self-supported by their peers.

I think the lower IQ Men are the more vocal, the higher the intellect the more sly they are, and more likely to touch.

In answer to your title question: because they can.

Men can (and do) harass women in the street and it is accepted (by society). Women condole with each other about how shit it is, some men are a bit 'meh' about it, some men dislike it. I do wonder how many men challenge other men's attitude towards it.

I personally don't know what can be done about it. But since leaving dog poo on the pavement became socially unacceptable it has almost died out. Such a shame the same thing hasn't happened with street harassment. Perhaps if every time street harassment was seen it was challenged in the same way non-poo-picker-uppers are (with words, a filthy look or tutting) the men that do it might realise that it is unacceptable and stop.

Or maybe I'm living in a dream world.