You are not responsible for the rape or sexual assault you endured

[differentnameforthis]

In light of many threads about Ched Evans' & his victim & in light of those who believe she could have prevented it by being sober (!), I thought it was important to raise this issue.

It doesn't matter if you were drunk
It doesn't matter if you were alone
It doesn't matter if you got into a taxi/car/train/bus with him
It doesn't matter if you went to a room with him
It doesn't matter if you knew him
It doesn't matter if you didn't know him
It doesn't matter if you started to have sex with him & said no
It doesn't matter if you had sex with him an hour/a day/a week before
It doesn't matter if you had sex with his friend
It doesn't matter what you were wearing

YOU ARE IN NO WAY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE RAPE/SEXUAL ASSAULT YOU ENDURED.

We believe you

I'm afraid I just don't get this at all. Of course there isn't a fail safe solution. But we teach pedestrians road safety but there are drunk drivers and cars that mount the pavement so nothing they could have done would have saved them. And saying most people know their rapist is like saying most people are murdered by someone they know. It just isn't relevant to the argument. IMHO.

I have 2 sons
I don't have daughters to protect.

But in a heated discussion with DH a few weeks ago I switched things round.
would we EVER say to our boys.

if she is drunk go for it she doesn't need to say yes
if she is alone go for it she doesn't need to say yes
if she gets into a taxi/car/train/bus with you go for it she doesn't need to say yes
If she comes into a room with you go for it she doesn't need to say yes
If you know a girl well go for it she doesn't need to day yes
If she has taken her clothes off and initiated sexual contact, go for it she doesn't need to say yes
If she has said yes before go for it she doesn't need to say yes again
if she is wearing clothes you find provocative go for it she doesn't need to say yes

of course no one would ever say this to their boys the only people who rape are rapists.

I don't want to be eaten by a tiger. Therefore, I never put myself in the vicinity of tigers
You can see a tiger, or you would be in an area where tigers live or there would be a big freaking sign saying tigers danger
Can you tell a rapist by looking at them, do you know when going into a certain area this is where a rapist is, does a rapist have a danger rapist sign?

MyEmpireOfDirt don't accuse me of victim blaming, I haven't ever once made any victim blaming statement. BuffytheReasonableFeminist, it appears that some people are unable to grasp the fact that victim blaming, and pointing out safety tips are two completely different things. If people are incapable of getting such a simple concept after this long then I don't think they ever will.

We live in a world where people rape other people. There are things you can do to lower your chances of being a victim. Of course you shouldn't HAVE to do them, the ideal would be that people don't rape other people. But the world isn't like that, although maybe one day it hopefully will be. Until then, it's up to you - Do you take on board common sense safety tips in the hopes it will prevent you becoming a victim, or do you ignore them, and put yourself in a potentially dangerous situation just to prove a point to yourself that you shouldn't have to do anything? It's up to you, whatever you pick, there is only one person I ever blame for a rape - The person who chose to initiate intercourse without implicit or implied consent. Victim blaming in any form is unacceptable and I will not change my mind on those two statements.

Strumpers, will you (have you) ever actually say to your boys:

You are not entitled to put your penis into a women even if:
if she is drunk and won't know what you're doing
if she is alone
if she gets into a taxi/car/train/bus with you
If she comes into a room with you
If you know a girl well but she hasn't given you enthusiastic consent
If she has taken her clothes off and initiated sexual contact but changes her mind
If she has said yes before
if she is wearing clothes you find provocative

Because since an alarming 6% of men (over 1 man in every 20 you encounter as you go about your daily life - so probably at least one in your office, sports club and circle of friends) have admitted to behaviours which they didn't identify as rape or sexual assault, but which actually were, there are a frightening number of parents who are blatantly not teaching their sons not to rape.

Wouldyoulisten - I would bring it up as a suggestion on something they could do to make themselves less at risk. I would not bring it up to blame them, of course I wouldn't. I am still amazed (and a bit offended) that anyone would think it is victim blaming, it makes no sense to accuse me of victim blaming when I have not made any statement that you know....blames the victim. Perhaps it's just people getting confused between genuine victim blaming and common sense crime prevention tips.

Aduaz you are an idiot.

cailindana thank you for your feedback.

Aduaz, you seem to be hard of hearing so excuse me while I shout.

THERE IS NOTHING ANY WOMAN CAN DO TO DECREASE HER CHANCES OF RAPE. RAPE HAPPENS WITH EQUAL LIKELIHOOD IN ALL PLACES TO WOMEN OF ALL AGES, IN ALL TYPES OF CLOTHING AND IN ALL KINDS OF SOCIAL SITUATIONS, WITH OR WITHOUT ALCOHOL BEING INVOLVED.

Just to make sure you got it...

YOU CAN OFFER AN INFINITE NUMBER OF SAFETY TIPS AND IT WILL NOT PREVENT WOMEN FROM GETTING RAPED.

HTH

AnnieLobeseder , you're not quite correct there. It is true that nothing you can do will make you 100% safe from rape. There are things you can do to make yourself safer though. I definitely don't think you should have to do them, but you can do them and if you do you might be less at risk of being in a dangerous situation.

I'm glad you understood what I was trying to say MyEmpire. And I totally agree that advice should be handed out to men and women of how to keep safe. And in that recent Ched Evans case I think the hotel and the other people involved must take some blame or responsibility. Could these places not tighten up their security systems.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist I feel like I'm talking to a wall here as you are basically arguing that black is white. That not blaming the victim is victim blaming. I give up. Not blaming the victim is NOT victim blaming. I think at this point I am going to give up, something which I'm sure you'll be very happy about , so you can get back to screaming at everyone with a different opinion that their blaming the attacker for the attack is somehow victim blaming.

I tried that with big letters Buffy. Didn't work. He doesn't seem to believe us. Hmmmm, funny that.... a man not believing what women tell him. That never usually happens.

Aduaz - so you're not going to answer my question then ? And why is this? I can tell you why because you are victim blaming and you know it .

Pompodd - you are clearly a decent human being and I live In hope that there are a lot more of you out there and that you all out number the victim blamers and rape apologists.

The thing is it is so ingrained in society that it worries me for example I hadn't ever spoken to my DD 12 about rape as I hadn't felt I needed to yet but with all the Ched Evans discussions about I decided too.
When I asked if she thought a woman could ever be responsible for being raped she said yes, my face did this and then this I spent along time talking with her that evening explaining why it could never be her fault.
She certainly did not get the notion woman were to blame from me or family it's in things that are done and said by society. Posters that tell women not to drink, others telling their daughters not to do xyz and they won't be raped, girls being called 'sluts ' if they wear short skirts etc etc and I despair that in 2014 things have not changed.

AnnieLobeseder nice sexist remark. I wonder how much criticism that will get seeing as it's being directed at men??

When I was raped it was at a party at my mothers and my house. I went to my own bed. What prevention tips would you give me there aduaz? What could I have done there to prevent being woken up in my own bed in my own home to rape?

Whether you like it or not, enough actual victims are telling you on this thread that what you are saying is victim blaming. Not only are you determinedly whining on about your pointless point you are also implying we are all simple. You are a bit offended? Such a shame. I feel for you. It must be terribly hard for you.

Of course it's terribly hard for a rape victim to go through their counselling saying if only I had done this different. Then meet a do gooder on a forum that feels it's perfectly okay to say that to a victim because you are only trying to offer safety tips don't you know. Thanks. I feel much better now knowing that I can protect myself from rape.