You are not responsible for the rape or sexual assault you endured

[differentnameforthis]

In light of many threads about Ched Evans' & his victim & in light of those who believe she could have prevented it by being sober (!), I thought it was important to raise this issue.

It doesn't matter if you were drunk
It doesn't matter if you were alone
It doesn't matter if you got into a taxi/car/train/bus with him
It doesn't matter if you went to a room with him
It doesn't matter if you knew him
It doesn't matter if you didn't know him
It doesn't matter if you started to have sex with him & said no
It doesn't matter if you had sex with him an hour/a day/a week before
It doesn't matter if you had sex with his friend
It doesn't matter what you were wearing

YOU ARE IN NO WAY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE RAPE/SEXUAL ASSAULT YOU ENDURED.

We believe you

I know MEOD. It's fucking depressing. But I genuinely think things are slowly slowly slowly changing. The way Sheffield have rejected the rapist Ched Evans is encouraging. There will always be men out there like Aduaz, dictating what rape victims should feel. But I am determined to help work towards a society where that attitude garners the disgust and derision it deserves.
It makes me incredibly sad to see a woman, especially a woman who has been raped, holding these views. To turn that level of judgement on yourself and those around you must be...destroying. To have such little compassion for your own self, well, it is very sad.

Aduaz please answer my question WHY would you feel the need to point out that it was risky for them to walk that way. What purpose does that serve. It doesn't change that they were attacked, that's happened and is the attackers fault. The fact they walked that way doesn't have any bearing on the attack so why bring that up if not to blame them.

Women must at all times guard themselves against rape by combining X magical thinking with Y 'sensible' advice - Thus implying men just can't help themselves around the laydeez is a truly stupid thing to suggest. It also suggests that men are animals who just can't control their urges, which is pretty hateful.

to those women brave enough to share their stories with us. I believe you

to Trapper and WTCOTH for showing that they have managed to contain their tigery instincts and not rape women. And that they've done that repeatedly, no matter how drunk, scantily clad, daringly walking down roads those women have been.

Every single time someone says "No, no, of course you're not to blame for being raped, but if you'd only not done....." you blame me for being raped, because your magical thinking didn't work for me. Every. Single. Time.

The first time, I was 15, bright daylight, wearing everyday clothes. A friend's father offered me a lift in his van, like he had done a number of times before, only this time he drove to a park and put his socks in my mouth to stop me screaming as he raped me. My mother was like you lot, told me about 'sensible' precautions to take, but I'd got into the van, hadn't I? It was my fault, wasn't it? No one would believe me, because I had broken that magical thinking. Later, when my ExH did it, I 'knew' it was my fault and pretended to be dead instead, because I 'deserved' it because I'd 'let myself be raped' before. I told her a couple of years ago, and she told me to my face that I had brought it on myself.

Be careful how you address this with your DDs.

Oh Jesus puffins I'm so sorry.

And to the others on the thread who have told their stories.

Sisterly support for all and a kick in the undercarriage for the rape apologist crew.

Puffins

Oh god puffins how bloody awful. I'm so sorry.

Humble, I'm happy to repeat myself, you are simply talking shit. Dangerous, ill-informed and nasty shit at that.

Wouldyou" - Aduaz* isn't going to answer. He knows that the only logical answer to our question is that he would only say it - you shouldn't have walked that risky way - because he thinks it might have prevented the sexual assault or rape happening in the first place. And I genuinely believe that he wants that outcome.

But to say that attaches partial responsibility to the woman for the attack. If it actually truly were the case that women could prevent themselves from being raped through some magical combination of words and actions then they would have partial responsibility if they didn't perform the magic and ended up getting raped. But of course they can't - the only way that they can prevent themselves from being raped is by being fortunate enough not to meet a rapist. Full stop. Any other analysis is, I'm afraid, at best naivety and crass insensitivity and at worse something much darker and frightening.

I'm a man who's got to the age of 37 and somehow managed to contain my tiger instincts and not raped anyone so far. The situations include:

1. Helping female friends home after they'd drunk too much (and even put them to bed).

1. I've been in nightclubs where women with very revealing clothes have danced provocatively with and near me.

1. Flirted with lots of different women before I was married in pubs and clubs. I even kissed some of them.

1. Slept in the same bed with my wife for getting on 10 years and never had sex with her when she didn't want it. I've even had erections whilst we've been in the same bed and managed to stop myself from raping her.

Looking back, I don't know how I've managed it.

Thanks everyone. I'm fine, I had a great therapist and I know I did nothing at all to make myself a target.

pompodd as well, I knew I'd missed one of the non rapey tigers off, sorry.

You are the VERY LANCELOT OF CHIVALROUS VIRTUE Pompodd to use an excellent phrase coined by...ooh I forget now, one of my lovely MN friends :)

There is no excuse for a woman being raped. None what so ever. No ifs, buts, whys or whatever. I have zero time for anyone that tries to justify it and as far as I'm concerned it makes them a rapist enabler.

How on earth can it be excusable for man to insert himself inside a woman's body. Men are not some weak beings unable to control themselves.

Women should not have to be careful about how they dress. How they act. What they drink. Where they go. Just because some of us feel we have to doesn't make it okay.

I've been abused as a child. Raped as an adult. I was at a party. Laid down for a sleep and woke up to being raped. Perhaps I shouldn't have been at the party. Perhaps I shouldn't have had anything to drink. Perhaps I shouldn't have spoken to the rapist that night. Or perhaps I should have been able to do all these things and not wake up to a man violating me inside my body. I say inside because I can't think of a more vulnerable place.

There is never any justifiable reason, excuse or explanation for rape. Ever. And the amount of people that try to do just that make me sick.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist, we should remember that saying "If the victim had behaved differently it wouldn't have happened" is NOT victim blaming. I admit it does sound a bit like you are blaming the victim but what you're actually just saying is if the circumstances were different, there would be a different outcome. No one can dispute that if the victim was somewhere else, the attack wouldn't have happened. If the person then starts to blame the victim by saying "you deserved it because you did this", that's a completely different thing and is unacceptable.

You can't be 100% safe from being raped, like it or not that is a fact of the world we are in. I might advise you to get a taxi home and the driver ends up raping you. My advice would not be a claim that if you do this you definitely won't be raped, it would just be me saying in my opinion if you do this you lower your chances but it's up to you.

I agree that a decent man doesn't rape or force a woman whether or not she is drunk or goes back to his hotel room or whatever. But the point is a woman takes a chance when this happens. She takes a chance that the person won't be a rapist. We all tell children not to accept lifts from strangers. Most people agree that hitch hiking isn't safe. But it could be if you only accept lifts from non rapists. But the point is how do you know before you get into that car or go to that hotel room.

Aduaz. If only you had never seen this thread and thought to post on it, victims of rape wouldn't keep getting upset by your comments. I know that sounds like I'm blaming you for upsetting them, but I'm really not. I only mean that if the stars had been aligned differently and you had perhaps decided to spend your time watching telly instead of posting on MN, then the upset you've caused would never have happened.

Actually Aduaz it is victim blaming. I am a victim of rape, as far as you have stated you are not. Why do you think you can ignore my view and continue to assert your own?

Saying if the victim had behaved differently this wouldn't have happened is exactly blaming the victim. Totally pointless as well.

Someone gets ran over. If they had looked both ways it wouldn't have happened. Doesn't change the fact they got ran over so is absolutely useless unless they learn and look both ways next time. It implies they did something wrong.

Someone gets raped. If they hadn't of got drunk and let that man walk them home, it never would have happened. Doesn't change the fact that it did unless they learn next time not to get drunk and walk home with a man.

Should a woman not be able to do just that without being raped? Of course they should. Oh but men rape so women need to be careful. Sadly yes but the emphasis should always be dealing with raping men than with correcting a woman's behaviour be it for her safety or otherwise.

I cannot understand why victims of rape would be upset by me saying that victim blaming is unacceptable. If you weren't just intending to have a go at me then perhaps explain why someone would be upset by my stance against victim blaming.

Because saying the victim should behave differently IS victim blaming. However way you might think you mean it.

Don't you think rape victims go over and over that in their own heads? If I had done this, that wouldn't have happened. Then someone comes along and says there there dear it's okay, you did make your self vulnerable but you know what not to do next time. Swings and roundabouts. Victim blaming.

Why women should have to do things to 'lower their chances' is beyond me. That again implies that it's accepted that men rape. Oh well. Women just need to do this and that and it's unlikely to happen. That's nice. How about tackling the real issue. Men that rape.